What gets Steeped and what gets mashed?

[nittanybevo]

I'm on the corner of extract and PM. I've read some of the recipes and tried to search for answers, but I seem to get more confused.

What gets steeped and what gets mashed? It seems like there are grains that are steeped (for flavor/color) and grains that are mashed (for starches). The steeping is 20-45 mins, while the mash is roughly an hour - both at around the same temperature (160-165*).

I made the centennial blonde last weekend, and now I'm over analyzing if I steeped or mashed my carapils.

 

[FoundlingOfDollar]

The process is somewhat similar, but mashing is what you do for an all grain brew. Mashing extracts the sugars from the grain so that you can ferment them. Your extract, be it dry or liquid,is already the result of mashing your base grains. Steeping the specialty grains extracts flavor and some sugar from the specialty grains to help add flavor and body to your extract to make a more complex beer, but since it is not the base of your beer, you don't need to go through the lengthier mashing process.

 

[shawnbou]

Mashing will typically happen at more specific temperatures to ensure that the enzymes in the malt convert the starch to sugar. 150-155°F is the usual optimal range, but there are exceptions. 160-165°F seems a little high for most mashes; some of the enzymes may work at that temperature but not all, and you'd probably end up with a very dextrinous (less fermentable) wort at those temperatures if you were doing an all-grain mash. And you won't want to go higher than 170°F because that is believed to extract tannins from grain (gives you that sucking-on-a-teabag mouthfeel).

But if you're using extract, accurate temperatures don't matter as much because most if not all of your fermentable sugar is coming from the extract, not the grains. Just stay below 170°F to avoid tannins. If you're doing PM, you will want to maintain mashing temperatures so you can get some of the fermentable sugar from the grains - but the extract will also contribute a significant amount.

If you're interested in which grains can just be steeped to add flavor, and which ones need to be mashed, John Palmer has a list in How to Brew, which you can see online here:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-1.html

 

[mewithstewpid]

it says on that page that vienna and biscuit malt need to be mashed.

why do recipes call for them to be steeped, then. can you still get flavor out of them just by steeping w.o the fermentables?

carapils is also on there as needing to be mashed. im confused now.

 

[Yooper]

it says on that page that vienna and biscuit malt need to be mashed.

why do recipes call for them to be steeped, then. can you still get flavor out of them just by steeping w.o the fermentables?

carapils is also on there as needing to be mashed. im confused now.

You can flavor and color out of the grain, even if not mashed. You might get a bit of a starch haze, though.

I was in the same boat when I started brewing. And then a little light bulb went off in my head- the procedure can be the same for ANY type of grain. "Mashing" steeping grains is fine, and then you're guaranteed to not mess up!

So, for ALL grains, I started using 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. I put the grains in a bag (or two, if I had more grain than could be loose in one bag), and add the grains to the water when the water was 165 degrees. Turning off the heat, I'd stir well and make sure I was between 150-160 degrees and walk away for 45 minutes.

In the meantime, I'd heat a second pot of water to 170 degrees. Then, after my timer went off, I'd lift out the grain bag(s) and put them in a colander over my pot. I'd pour the hot water over the grains to reach my boil volume. Then, throw the grains away and bring the resulting liquid up to a boil and proceed with my recipe.

That way, steeping grains and/or mashing grains could be treated the same way, and I never had to worry about which was which. It doesn't hurt to have one procedure that you follow all the time, and then you never have to worry about a too high pH from a too-high water volume. Just always use about 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain for "steeping" and rinse with 170 degree water up to your boil volume and you'll be fine.

 

[nittanybevo]

When I brewed the centennial blonde last weekend, I steeped the carapils at 165* for 20 mins in a gallon of water. Then I pulled my grain out, and brought it up to a boil and added the DME and boiled for an hour. Basically the same as the other extract recipes I've followed.

How do you figure out what the boil volume should be? I usually only boil up to 2-3 gallons, then top off with cold water to help chill before pitching. Not to mention, 2-3 gallons per pot is about all I can safely handle in my kitchen.

 

[Yooper]

When I brewed the centennial blonde last weekend, I steeped the carapils at 165* for 20 mins in a gallon of water. Then I pulled my grain out, and brought it up to a boil and added the DME and boiled for an hour. Basically the same as the other extract recipes I've followed.

How do you figure out what the boil volume should be? I usually only boil up to 2-3 gallons, then top off with cold water to help chill before pitching. Not to mention, 2-3 gallons per pot is about all I can safely handle in my kitchen.

If you can only boil 3 gallons, then that is what your boil volume should be.

 

[nittanybevo]

I think I'm starting to get it. thanks for all the help!

 

[heferly]

there's a couple of references i can point you to that i've used...

either way, like yooper said, you might want to 'mash' everything, and thow in a pound or two of 2-row just to get some conversion...this would be partial mashing, and i found my beers got better when i switched.

beersmith grains

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