What does it take to win a homebrew competition?

[CA_Mouse]

It sounds like you're describing possible cheating, which if true, is deplorable. But I still don't see how any of this indicates a judge not liking the style. Maybe I'm missing something, but a judge "didn't find the beer palatable and not in style" doesn't to me mean he/she doesn't like the style, whether it's a new style or an old style.

I had to dig up a 7 yo score sheet...

His comment was "Not a fan of this particular beer, it is unpalatable and not in style for an IPA. Perhaps not using dark malt would improve this beer."

This was for a Black IPA, otherwise known as a Dark Cascadian Ale. If he didn't know what he was judging, then he shouldn't have been judging that particular style. The fact that there were 8 total beers in that style and all 3 went to members of their own brew club was enough for the organizer to ask them not to send any judges the following year.

 

[VikeMan]

I had to dig up a 7 yo score sheet...

His comment was "Not a fan of this particular beer, it is unpalatable and not in style for an IPA. Perhaps not using dark malt would improve this beer."

This was for a Black IPA, otherwise known as a Dark Cascadian Ale. If he didn't know what he was judging, then he shouldn't have been judging that particular style.

So, seven years ago would have been under BJCP 2008 guidelines. What category did you enter it in?

 

[bwible]

It sounds like you're describing possible cheating, which if true, is deplorable.

Agreed. I like to try to give people benefit of the doubt though. If they were cheating, how could they have done it? Sounds like they were not part of the competition organization, just random judges from another club. As such they would not have had access to any entry information. Judges are supposed to be just presented plain brown bottles with no identifying marks or features and plain caps or blacked out caps. Each entry just has a number. If somebody entered bottles that could be uniquely identified, the organizer should have thrown them out. You would not accept a Sam Smith bottle for example, or a swingtop. I have seen people get away with using Sam Adams bottles, though those should also really be a no-no. Judges also do not know what categories they will be judging until the day of the competition. So unless they had a way to know in advance what category they would be judging and which entry numbers were guys from their club, it would be really difficult.

 

[WesBrew]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

IMO, brew what you like/enjoy. Why need validation from unreliable/subjective judge(s)?

 

[bwible]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

New by me. Usually 2 bottles. I just entered a competition that wanted 3 bottles and thats because the judges were doing it on line with Zoom so each judge needed their own bottle plus the third for best of show round if the beer made it. Might be some variation of that why they want 4, but 4 is not a standard. And yeah, I guess that’s a problem if you don’t have 4 full ones.

 

[bwible]

IMO, brew what you like/enjoy. Why need validation from unreliable/subjective judge(s)?

Our club’s competition is one of the club’s major fundraisers. This is where money comes from to do club events, have a Christmas party, etc. We enter beers to support our own club. That said, I do brew what I like and I don’t go looking all over the country for competitions to mail my beers to.

 

[garzlok]

"What does it take to win a homebrew competition?" The simple answer is: an Excellent to Outstanding homebrew that is a classic example to the style without flaws and leaves a wonderful impression.

A lot of focus has been put on unreliable judging. I think that's a silly argument...can you get an incompetent judge? Absolutely. I see little point worrying about things that may or may not be the case.

Before entering a competition, you need to ask yourself one simple question. Can I handle someone calling my baby ugly? If you can't cope with that potential fact, then don't enter into a comp.

I entered my first comp after 2 years of homebrewing. My friends and family told me I was brewing good beer, and I thought I was brewing good beer, but I wanted an unbiased opinion on my beer, plus I'm a competitor and I wanted to see how my beer stacked-up against others.

I did pretty well that first comp and felt I was on the right path.

There is always a potential to get bad advice from a trusted source and Beer Judging is no different, so yeah, sometimes you have to weed through the info. However, I am one that firmly believes that taking critiques from judging comps is a great way to improve your beer. If you want to Win a beer comp, sometimes you have to go through a loss and find ways to get better.

For my personal case study, in my first comp, I ended up scoring a 33/50 to win a Silver Medal (which is a really weak win). I took what the judges said to heart, worked on the recipe, and 3 years later submitted the beer for judging. Scored a 45/50 and took Gold.

Now? I'm done competing! I know I have the potential to make Outstanding beer. Plus, because I have run the gambit of having beers judged from Fair to Outstanding, I feel I'm a little bit more calibrated and have become more unbiased about my beer and a better homebrewer because of it.

 

[bwible]

"What does it take to win a homebrew competition?" The simple answer is: an Excellent to Outstanding homebrew that is a classic example to the style without flaws and leaves a wonderful impression.

A lot of focus has been put on unreliable judging. I think that's a silly argument...can you get an incompetent judge? Absolutely. I see little point worrying about things that may or may not be the case.

Before entering a competition, you need to ask yourself one simple question. Can I handle someone calling my baby ugly? If you can't cope with that potential fact, then don't enter into a comp.

I entered my first comp after 2 years of homebrewing. My friends and family told me I was brewing good beer, and I thought I was brewing good beer, but I wanted an unbiased opinion on my beer, plus I'm a competitor and I wanted to see how my beer stacked-up against others.

I did pretty well that first comp and felt I was on the right path.

There is always a potential to get bad advice from a trusted source and Beer Judging is no different, so yeah, sometimes you have to weed through the info. However, I am one that firmly believes that taking critiques from judging comps is a great way to improve your beer. If you want to Win a beer comp, sometimes you have to go through a loss and find ways to get better.

For my personal case study, in my first comp, I ended up scoring a 33/50 to win a Silver Medal (which is a really weak win). I took what the judges said to heart, worked on the recipe, and 3 years later submitted the beer for judging. Scored a 45/50 and took Gold.

Now? I'm done competing! I know I have the potential to make Outstanding beer. Plus, because I have run the gambit of having beers judged from Fair to Outstanding, I feel I'm a little bit more calibrated and have become more unbiased about my beer and a better homebrewer because of it.

Kudos to all the judges who went through the training and volunteer their time. But just remember that - for the most part “judges” are fellow homebrewers just like yourself who took some training and passed a test. Who is to say they know more or taste better than anyone else?

Does every fellow homebrewer brew and enjoy every single style in the BJCP guidelines and is every fellow homebrewer an expert on every single style? Of course not. Does every fellow homebrewer enjoy every single style? Of course not. That was most of the point being made. Just because somebody can pass a test and write down what makes a good Belgian beer doesn’t make them an expert on all Belgian styles.

Different people also have different flavor thresholds. One judge will tell you your beer reeks of DMS and the judge sitting next to him can’t smell it.

There’s also effort required to keep up with current styles. I haven’t judged since about 2005 and the style guidelines have been completely re-written since then. Could I judge every single style today? No. I would expect to have to take the test again if I wanted to judge now or I would be doing a dis-service. (I have no desire or inclination to take the test again.)

The majority of judges are great people volunteering their time to do a service. But we all have our preferences, styles we like to drink, styles we like to brew. We all have styles we don’t enjoy and don’t want to drink. We all have varying levels of knowlege on different styles and topics - and that does come into play. Thats most of what was being said.

I wouldn’t put beer judges up on some pedestal and take every word every judge writes as some gospel truth.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

In the COVID-era with competitions dealing with social distancing and uncertainties, it is not uncommon to require more bottles. It could be that the judges are in different locations, or the BOS judging will be at a separate location.

 

[VikeMan]

IMO, brew what you like/enjoy. Why need validation from unreliable/subjective judge(s)?

If the goal is to make beers you enjoy, I completely agree.

But if you want the most unbiased feedback possible about how a beer stacks up against a standard and against other beers, beer comps are the way to go. Even though some judges are bad, and good judges can have a bad day, or a blind spot, etc., you can enter the same beer in multiple competitions and look for the common comments between them.

For those with BYO online accounts, here's an old article (Dec 2016) that goes into depth on the subject.
https://byo.com/article/how-good-is-your-homebrew/

 

[CascadesBrewer]

One suggest I have from entering and judging in my local club competition: Fill up a bottle the same way you would for a competition, then pour out 2 oz into a small plastic cup. Stick your nose down in that glass and really look for flaws. I find that often a beer tastes quite different when casually drinking a pint vs critiquing a small sample.

Packaging is also very important. You are not being judged on how nice the pours are from your keggerator, but how it looks in front of the judges. Carbonation is only a few points on the sheet, but impacts aroma, flavor, mouthfeel and overall impressions.

 

[Steveruch]

Timing can also be an issue. Brew on a time frame that gets the beer to the competition at it's peak.
Many years ago I entered a British barleywine into a competition fairly soon after fermentation and received a mid 30s score, "Too hoppy for style." I entered it again the next year, got my best score ever and took second in best of show round.

 

[garzlok]

#judgesarepeopletoo

 

[jdauria]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

Normally comps require 2-3 bottles. A bottle for judging and for mini-Best in Show and a bottle if you take 1st place for the Best in Show round. With Covid, a lot of comps have used remote judging and have asked for more bottles as they need 1 for each of the two judges judging remotely, 1 for a possible mini-BOS and then one for Best in Show if you finish in first for style. Unused bottles are usually put out at the awards ceremony for club members to try.

 

[jdauria]

It sounds like you're describing possible cheating, which if true, is deplorable. But I still don't see how any of this indicates a judge not liking the style. Maybe I'm missing something, but a judge "didn't find the beer palatable and not in style" doesn't to me mean he/she doesn't like the style, whether it's a new style or an old style.

I have experienced a few comps that have made me go hmmm....just entered one in OK recently where 23 out of the 27 medals went to the members of the club hosting the comp. Seeing that made me wonder if something was going on there, but then looking at big picture, only 100 entries, and probably only a handful of out of state entries...so more likely not collusion.

My club hosted a comp for new local brewery in the town our club is located, it was limited to 30 entries, all had to be "amber beer below 6%", and we had 8 judges, 4 club members and 4 outside BJCP judges. 4/5 of the BOS beers were from my club, and I wound up winning BOS, which allowed me to brew at the brewery and go to GABF. Someone who had entered from other club in our state then wrote a letter complaining about the process saying our members should not have entered and judged. However, none of us judged our own beers, nor were our members part of best of show judging. After that, the comp that his comp was in, nobody from our club medaled in their comp for 3 years running, even with beers that medaled in every comp they were entered in. I was adamant that they were somehow marking bottles from our club and telling judges to score the marked bottles low as pay back for the brewery comp accustation. For example, I had a beer that averaged 37.5 in 4 comps, it scored 27 in theirs. Every year beers from our club consistently scored 10 or more points lower in that comp.

 

[Mutant]

I often pick a solid beer and send it to different competitions to see how well those competitions are actually executed. A beer that won a Silver at the 2020 “The (Very Unofficial) NHC 2020 SF Region 1st Round Awards” in the Strong UK category, plus other events, and had been given a decent review by the two initial judges at the Big Beers Festival only to be trashed by the final judge by making comments that didn't apply to the style I had submitted.

What I've learned is that judges sometimes placed on pedestals and shouldn't be.

Also, just found a competition in Roseville, CA that is $65 per entry. That is ridiculous

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

IMO, the BJCP are similar to a lot of certifications. Some swear by them, others, eh. I guess I'm in the eh camp.

 

[Young Brewing]

I am planning to enter my first competition in the middle of august that only allows Belgian style entries and I really want to get feedback on this new saison recipe I have created. I basically want to throw a little bit of strawberry & lemon peel in the boil and then add some hibiscus petal to turn the wort red. For the style, I have to indicate whether it will be a pale colored saison or a darker color saison, but I was wondering if they would disqualify me or just take a lot of points off for breaking the style guidelines? I’m sure it varies greatly between judges and competitions but I’m not sure how important color is from a judges perspective.

 

[bwible]

I am planning to enter my first competition in the middle of august that only allows Belgian style entries and I really want to get feedback on this new saison recipe I have created. I basically want to throw a little bit of strawberry & lemon peel in the boil and then add some hibiscus petal to turn the wort red. For the style, I have to indicate whether it will be a pale colored saison or a darker color saison, but I was wondering if they would disqualify me or just take a lot of points off for breaking the style guidelines? I’m sure it varies greatly between judges and competitions but I’m not sure how important color is from a judges perspective.

See the example score sheet I posted earlier in this thread. Appearance/color/clarity is 3 points out of a possible 50. Nobody is going to “disqualify” you. Spices are common in Belgian styles, fruit peels, grains of paradise, etc. If you go in the light category, they can hit you for being too dark. If you go in the dark category, would they be less likely to hit you for being too light? Maybe. Just make sure the beer matches what it says in the guidelines. If its not a good match, think about entering it under herb/spice/vegetable beer if you get a good bit of flavor from the hibiscus, or fruit beer if you get good fruit flavor from the strawberry and lemon. Or put it in more than one category and see what happens.

Good Luck.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

We need more than the standard two bottles for virtual judging.

When judging in-person, one bottle is for the table judging, and the second is if your beer makes to BOS. Occasionally comps will ask for a third bottle to be used for mini-BOS, but in my experience that is atypical.

For virtual judging, we need to be able to give one bottle to each of the judges to take home, plus a third for BOS.

My guess is the fourth bottle is for mini-BOS; in my area all of the local comps have arranged the judging to eliminate mini-BOS while judging remotely, but perhaps others have not. I can see judges working remotely, then a dedicated set of mini-BOS judges handle those separately (like we do at NHC). Then BOS.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

I am planning to enter my first competition in the middle of august that only allows Belgian style entries and I really want to get feedback on this new saison recipe I have created. I basically want to throw a little bit of strawberry & lemon peel in the boil and then add some hibiscus petal to turn the wort red. For the style, I have to indicate whether it will be a pale colored saison or a darker color saison, but I was wondering if they would disqualify me or just take a lot of points off for breaking the style guidelines? I’m sure it varies greatly between judges and competitions but I’m not sure how important color is from a judges perspective.

Forget color for a moment... obviously I have not tried your specific beer, but I will tell you that if the strawberry, lemon peel and/or hibiscus are very noticeable in the finished beer (as opposed to simply being a color addition) then entering the Saison category would be inappropriate; you would need to enter fruit and/or spice/herb/veg (whichever is most appropriate for the flavor and aromas of the finished beer).

Edit: this of course depends on the competition. Some do not go strictly by style, and specialty beers are accepted in the "standard" categories. I can see this being more of a possibility in a Belgian-only comp, as Belgian beers are much more difficult to pin to style guidelines than others.

Best thing to do is check the competition's website or contact the organizer for clarification. In general, though, my advice above applies -- adding special ingredients to a beer, even one that is otherwise dead-on to style, will usually pull it far enough out of the category that it needs to be entered elsewhere.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

I haven't judged a competition since 2000. Back then I was a BJCP certified judge. I used to travel around the country judging competitions. And back then, a BJCP judge had to be qualified to judge all styles in accordance with BJCP standards. When did judges become specialized in a particular style opposed to all categories?

They haven't. It's really no different than it's always been -- judges have varying degrees of experience, some have drank/brewed/judged most or all of the styles, and some aren't even close. Most judges strive to do well at any category they are assigned to, barring physical or sensory issues.

(For example, I cannot judge smoked beers, my palate is absolutely shot two beers in, so I always ask not to judge them. I won't do a good job, certainly not up to the high standards I place upon myself, so why bother?)

And I've long held that any moderately experienced judge should be able to judge a style they've never had in their life, simply by using the guidelines. Part of being a good judge is being able to interpret the guidelines and "connect" them to what you are perceiving in the beer in front of you. It's not ideal, we should all strive to gain experience with the full range of beer styles, but it's not always possible.

In regards to mead and cider, the BJCP have separate certifications/endorsements for those now, and one can become a mead-only or cider-only judge without ever taking the beer exam (although most judges added those certs to their existing BJCP rank -- for example, I am National + Mead).

And to add to the confusion, you do not have to have either the mead or cider certification to judge meads or ciders, taking those exams is entirely optional. (Most, but certainly not all, organizers will try to fill the mead and cider flights with certified mead and cider judges, but it's not always possible.)

 

[Young Brewing]

Forget color for a moment... obviously I have not tried your specific beer, but I will tell you that if the strawberry, lemon peel and/or hibiscus are very noticeable in the finished beer (as opposed to simply being a color addition) then entering the Saison category would be inappropriate; you would need to enter fruit and/or spice/herb/veg (whichever is most appropriate for the flavor and aromas of the finished beer).

I haven't brewed it yet but was planning on doing a trial run next weekend to see what flavors shine through the most. You bring up a good point though and maybe I will reconsider sending it to a different competition where I am able to categorize it better, thanks for the feedback!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Maybe with the NHC announcements later, some people will have some first hand experience on what they did to win!

I am gearing up for my first real attempt at a competition. I had 4 beers ready to go for a competition in 2020 that was cancelled. Now I have 4 beers in the works to submit into a competition next month. These are all recipes that I have brewed several times (with some minor tweaks). Some have done well in my informal club competitions. The Saison and Dubbel have been bottled for a bit. The Porter was kegged a bit ago, and the IPA is in the fermenter.

In the past I have entered beers in a few competitions. It was always: "Hey there is a competition next month. What do I have around that is decent?"

I read an article about Jamil Zainasheff. Back when he was heavy into competitions, he had a storage room full off beers of different ages ready to go into competitions.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I looked up two competitions somewhat near me and both require 4 bottles per entry. Is that a new standard? When bottling to enter , the keg kicked and one only has about 10oz. Wondering if that is an issue

I have no idea what the fourth bottle is for, the norm is three. You can send only two if you wish but you cannot be entered in BOS if you would win a 1st place. You also are required to indicate only two entries were sent so people aren't hunting for the third. I guess the forth bottle is for the registration PARTY.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I have been a competition brewer for 21 years and have been a consistent winner (patting my own back). I have to say there is a small amount of luck involved. How many flights have been judged before tasting your beer, what style did they judge before, can they read, are they wasted, and last but not least,, do they really know what they're doing? Sad but true some BJCP certified judges aren't that qualified.
I had a BJCP judge knock my French Saison because it did not have coriander and orange peel (an option not a requirement, did they read) and, wait for it, it was highly carbonated. My friends and I which consisted of well seasoned brewer's and professional brewer's had a good laugh reading that score sheet while drinking said Saison. You have to take the hits with a grain of salt. Think I'll have a Gose next. Prost

 

[Broothru]

So, seven years ago would have been under BJCP 2008 guidelines. What category did you enter it in?

I had an identical situation about 10 years ago. I've entered numerous comps over the years, and had entered a local one promoted by a new brewpub (now defunct) that was a limited comp of only a few categories (IPA, APA, lagers, etc), but all were BJCP categories and certified judges. Cascadia IPAs were all the West Coadt rage then, so I thought I'd jump to the head of the IPA line and enter one.

All the comment sheets were very complimentary about my beer, but it was DQ'd for not being within style guidelines. My one and only CDA. And now it's a separate style. Does that mean I can enter my Key Lime Sour as a Category 36 instead of a Provisional X4 Catherina Sour this year?

 

[VikeMan]

All the comment sheets were very complimentary about my beer, but it was DQ'd for not being within style guidelines.

Unfortunately, at the time dinging it was the appropriate thing for the judges to do. I've never entered a black ipa, but if I were going to do it under the 2008 guidelines, I would have entered it as a Specialty Beer (the old Category 23).

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I am planning to enter my first competition in the middle of august that only allows Belgian style entries and I really want to get feedback on this new saison recipe I have created. I basically want to throw a little bit of strawberry & lemon peel in the boil and then add some hibiscus petal to turn the wort red. For the style, I have to indicate whether it will be a pale colored saison or a darker color saison, but I was wondering if they would disqualify me or just take a lot of points off for breaking the style guidelines? I’m sure it varies greatly between judges and competitions but I’m not sure how important color is from a judges perspective.

Recipe sounds, to me, amazing. However, it's a real "chap shoot" as, whom knows, the mindset of the judge(s). All the hard work, etc and get "dinged" as it's "not to style".

Maybe better to enter into the experimental category.