Well, I won't do that again!

[dmattinson]

So I went out to the garage this morning to take out the trash and put the cans on the curb. On the way back to the house, I thought I would check on my fermenter with some Oktoberfest I made on Sunday.

Well, me being 0 cups of coffee into the day and forgetting about the chemical composition of gasses, reached into the fermentation freezer chest to take a picture of the trub collecting in my Catalyst.
Well, that is one mistake I won't be doing again! nestar:nestar:
After the CO2 hit me like a zap to the throat, I remembered why all those animals died in lake basins in Africa after a massive release of CO2 from a lake bed.

So, for the new guys out there using a box, chest, freezer or other contained fermentation spot, be aware of the fact that CO2 is heavier than air (think of dry ice clouds falling off of tables) and reaching into and breathing CO2 during active fermentation will at best be like a soda burp up the nose and worse, could make you pass out. Air out the chamber before reaching in!

On a lighter note, I am really pleased with the activity to far. Blow-off tube in Starsan solution is bubbling away and a nice krausen has begun forming.
I used a kit that came with my Catalyst from Craft-a-Brew in the Oktoberfest style of beer using US-05 yeast.
I have my Inkbird set to 67F but with a 2F variance. It was running just about 69F this AM when I took these pics. The jar is part of the fermenter design that allows for a trub collection and allows you to pitch yeast or dry hop without taking the lid off or transferring to another container/vessel.

 

[beernutz]

I have fermented 10 gallon batches in a 5 cf chest freezer for years and never had a C02 buildup like that. Maybe your fermenter is better sealed though as I added a collar to mine. The catalyst looks nice, I just wish is was cheaper and came in a larger size.

 

[DevilNuts]

I always open my freezer up, stick my head in and take a big whiff. Give me an idea of what's going on in there.

 

[Pappers_]

Goodbye nose hairs!

 

[JonM]

Glad I'm not the only one making totally out of season Oktoberfests. That's the beer I have planned for my Thanksgiving weekend brew day.

 

[dmattinson]

I bought Oktoberfest, Irish Stout and American Pale Ale kits with my Catalyst (well, bought two as one came with it). Irish Stout will be next and should be nice and conditioned for St Patty's Day followed up with the Pale Ale getting a little hoppy as we move into spring and Easter in mid-April.

 

[beernutz]

I bought Oktoberfest, Irish Stout and American Pale Ale kits with my Catalyst (well, bought two as one came with it). Irish Stout will be next and should be nice and conditioned for St Patty's Day followed up with the Pale Ale getting a little hoppy as we move into spring and Easter in mid-April.

Did the Octoberfest kit come with the US-05 yeast? Using ale yeast, even a clean one like US-05, is unusual in a lager recipe.

 

[jddevinn]

Note that the CO2 collected not because it was heavier than air but because of the seal on the freezer. When I had carboys I would do the same thing you did frequently..... leaving the lid open for a minute or two though and the CO2 level would drop back to below noticeable.

 

[GHBWNY]

Glad I'm not the only one making totally out of season Oktoberfests. That's the beer I have planned for my Thanksgiving weekend brew day.

The great thing about being a homebrewer is that we can make ANYTHING we want WHEN we want without dependence upon the availability of commercial products. While beers are traditionally named for the time of year they are consumed, e.g., beer consumed at the celebration of the harvest ("Oktoberfest") was so named. However, its availability was a matter of being the last beer brewed (in March) before the weather warmed up. Prior to refrigeration, beer had to be kept in the cool cellars throughout the warm summer months so it wouldn't spoil. Come fall, it was consumed. By the time your "November Oktoberfest" beer is aged and ready to be consumed, it may be closer to March. Maybe a "Maerzenfest"?

 

[jleiii]

Note that the CO2 collected not because it was heavier than air but because of the seal on the freezer. When I had carboys I would do the same thing you did frequently..... leaving the lid open for a minute or two though and the CO2 level would drop back to below noticeable.

The seal is not really relevant here. In a chest freezer the CO2 will build up and displace the air in the chamber. The better the seal, the higher the internal pressure will be, but they are not hermetically sealed, so it won't be much. Unless there is an opening of lesser restriction at the bottom, the air will be forced out by the CO2, around the lid. Opening the lid will not vent much of the CO2, and only near the top. You would need to actively disturb the CO2 to get any measurable amount to come up out of the chamber against gravity, and have air replace it.

I have a small chest freezer as well, and I learned this same lesson. After a day or 2 of active fermentation I opened the top and stuck my head in to get a good whiff of the beer, and was met with the acrid 'smell' of CO2 and lightheadedness.

The ethanol vapors are also heavier than air, so any of these vapors will also collect in the chamber. Based on a quick search of molecular weights, these will collect below the CO2. So, between the ethanol and CO2 it's not surprising that a good huff can have a measurable impact on ones well being. This is not the same as a quick sniff at the top of the chamber.

 

[jddevinn]

Gases don't stratify. Wasn't looking to start a discussion on this, Just staying that I've done it and opening the lid for a minute or two will vent the CO2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion

 

[tzaccario]

Glad I'm not the only one making totally out of season Oktoberfests. That's the beer I have planned for my Thanksgiving weekend brew day.

I am in the club, my Oktoberfest should be ready to keg in a week

 

[bionut]

I did this today when i kegged a Pale Ale You need to stay in there for a while to pass out though

 

[dmattinson]

Yes, came with US-05. All their kits came with this yeast

 

[passedpawn]

The seal is not really relevant here. In a chest freezer the CO2 will build up and displace the air in the chamber. The better the seal, the higher the internal pressure will be, but they are not hermetically sealed, so it won't be much. Unless there is an opening of lesser restriction at the bottom, the air will be forced out by the CO2, around the lid. Opening the lid will not vent much of the CO2, and only near the top. You would need to actively disturb the CO2 to get any measurable amount to come up out of the chamber against gravity, and have air replace it.

I have a small chest freezer as well, and I learned this same lesson. After a day or 2 of active fermentation I opened the top and stuck my head in to get a good whiff of the beer, and was met with the acrid 'smell' of CO2 and lightheadedness.

The ethanol vapors are also heavier than air, so any of these vapors will also collect in the chamber. Based on a quick search of molecular weights, these will collect below the CO2. So, between the ethanol and CO2 it's not surprising that a good huff can have a measurable impact on ones well being. This is not the same as a quick sniff at the top of the chamber.

Sorry, don't want to get into a physics debate here, but I can assure you that the CO2 will come out of a leaky chest freezer without disturbing the "layer". In fact, the whole "heavier than air so it forms a layer" idea is complete myth.

All gasses will, at a rate dependent on their molecular mass, expand to fill their container. If the container is a chest freezer with a hole, then "the container" includes earth's atmosphere. Look up Dalton's Law of Partial Pressures if you want a reference.

How fast it leaves a leaky chest freezer, and how fast it leaves relative to the air in the chamber is related to the square of the molecular masses of the air and CO2 molecules. Look up Graham's Law of Effusion (and diffusion) for more info on rates of free expansion.

 

[passedpawn]

I've definitely felt the sting of CO2 in the nose. Leaning into a chest freezer with several active fermentors will teach you to never do that again. I have been through some pretty serious "confined spaces" training as a volunteer fireman and it'll scare the poop out of you to get into any type of tank after learning how fast you can die in there.

 

[Nagorg]

huh-huh... he said poop!