Weldless Element w/ Integrated Plug

[enormous13]

What's going on everyone. In my search for an element for a eBIAB kit I'm putting together I've looked over the few different ways to attach the element to the kettle, and then add a power cord to the element. I'm wondering if anyone makes something like the idea I have, or if it'd even be possible.

I attached a picture of an element that brew hardware now offers, with the integrated TC flange and plug. My question is, why couldn't you simply add some threads on the element side (right) of the TC flange and make it a weldless install, instead of having to go with the TC port and fittings? Keep the integrated plug to forego wiring and have the ability to unplug for mobility.

I know the hot pod is kind of the "go-to", but it's pretty large considering it's just an enclosure. I'm trying to mount an element as low as physically possible in my kettle, and the pod plus tri-clamp make it necessary to mount about 2 inches up in the kettle. I thought I had a great and easy solution with this element (https://www.williamsbrewing.com/1500-WATT-STAINLESS-HEATING-ELEMENT-P3911.aspx) that only needs a 7/8" install hole, but now I'm getting conflicting reports of scorching.

If anyone has any ideas or could make this idea happen, let me know! I feel like a weldless option with an integrated plug would be great, if it is possible.

 

[rudylyon57]

The lowest profile would likely be what's found on a conventional water heater element which is 1" NPS (straight pipe thread). If you could locate, or make, a stainless nipple with this thread it could be swaged & soldered in place. However, you would still need some form of enclosure.

 

[augiedoggy]

What's going on everyone. In my search for an element for a eBIAB kit I'm putting together I've looked over the few different ways to attach the element to the kettle, and then add a power cord to the element. I'm wondering if anyone makes something like the idea I have, or if it'd even be possible.

I attached a picture of an element that brew hardware now offers, with the integrated TC flange and plug. My question is, why couldn't you simply add some threads on the element side (right) of the TC flange and make it a weldless install, instead of having to go with the TC port and fittings? Keep the integrated plug to forego wiring and have the ability to unplug for mobility.

I know the hot pod is kind of the "go-to", but it's pretty large considering it's just an enclosure. I'm trying to mount an element as low as physically possible in my kettle, and the pod plus tri-clamp make it necessary to mount about 2 inches up in the kettle. I thought I had a great and easy solution with this element (https://www.williamsbrewing.com/1500-WATT-STAINLESS-HEATING-ELEMENT-P3911.aspx) that only needs a 7/8" install hole, but now I'm getting conflicting reports of scorching.

If anyone has any ideas or could make this idea happen, let me know! I feel like a weldless option with an integrated plug would be great, if it is possible.

you mean like a normal element only with a plug?
I bought the $23 weldless tc ferrule that I installed on my kettle and use that with a similiar tc based element with a plug.. No welding required..

 

[ba-brewer]

I know the hot pod is kind of the "go-to", but it's pretty large considering it's just an enclosure. I'm trying to mount an element as low as physically possible in my kettle, and the pod plus tri-clamp make it necessary to mount about 2 inches up in the kettle. I thought I had a great and easy solution with this element (https://www.williamsbrewing.com/1500-WATT-STAINLESS-HEATING-ELEMENT-P3911.aspx) that only needs a 7/8" install hole, but now I'm getting conflicting reports of scorching.

The Williams element clearly says water only. I don't read/listen so well and have been using it in a RIMS tube with good results as long I don't forget to turn off the element before I turn off the pump. The couple times I forgot I did get some scorching on the element. There is minimal liquid in my tube which may be part of the reason, but I don't think I would use it for boiling wort.

I have two of the standard 1500W hot rods and have not had an issue with scorching with them.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

No reason it can't be done , it just hasn't been done yet.
The thing about those elements is they cost nearly 3 times as much as a normal element. (Camco 5500W on Amazon is $27, BrewBoss 5500W is $75+shipping)

@Augiedoggy's solution is a pretty good workaround , maybe he can post a link for the $23 weldless tc ferrule

 

[mj1angier]

you mean like a normal element only with a plug?
I bought the $23 weldless tc ferrule that I installed on my kettle and use that with a similiar tc based element with a plug.. No welding required..

This is what I did for my 20 gallon EBIAB build

 

[enormous13]

you mean like a normal element only with a plug?
I bought the $23 weldless tc ferrule that I installed on my kettle and use that with a similiar tc based element with a plug.. No welding required..

No reason it can't be done , it just hasn't been done yet.
The thing about those elements is they cost nearly 3 times as much as a normal element. (Camco 5500W on Amazon is $27, BrewBoss 5500W is $75+shipping)

@Augiedoggy's solution is a pretty good workaround , maybe he can post a link for the $23 weldless tc ferrule

No, get rid of the TC all together, so there would be no necessity for a tri clamp. Simply weldless threads and a weldless install with a male plug on the exterior side.

 

[enormous13]

The Williams element clearly says water only. I don't read/listen so well and have been using it in a RIMS tube with good results as long I don't forget to turn off the element before I turn off the pump. The couple times I forgot I did get some scorching on the element. There is minimal liquid in my tube which may be part of the reason, but I don't think I would use it for boiling wort.

I have two of the standard 1500W hot rods and have not had an issue with scorching with them.

It’s going to be used in a recirculating eBIABasket, so I’m holding out for the possibility that the amount of water plus recirculating will stop scorching. It’s just such an easy install and lets me get the basket lower for smaller batches. I️ may just give it a shot and see how it does.

 

[augiedoggy]

The Williams element clearly says water only. I don't read/listen so well and have been using it in a RIMS tube with good results as long I don't forget to turn off the element before I turn off the pump. The couple times I forgot I did get some scorching on the element. There is minimal liquid in my tube which may be part of the reason, but I don't think I would use it for boiling wort.

I have two of the standard 1500W hot rods and have not had an issue with scorching with them.

thats because its very high watt density,
its easy to use a much lower watt density element and mount it in a compression fitting to use that as the threaded base.. thats what I did wuth my rims using a 36" long element that is so low density it stays 100% clean with no buildup and zero chance of scorching.

 

[augiedoggy]

No reason it can't be done , it just hasn't been done yet.
The thing about those elements is they cost nearly 3 times as much as a normal element. (Camco 5500W on Amazon is $27, BrewBoss 5500W is $75+shipping)

@Augiedoggy's solution is a pretty good workaround , maybe he can post a link for the $23 weldless tc ferrule

actually I have a couple tc based element identical to brew bosses elements only I bought them direct from the manufacturer for $16 each instead of 75...
brewhardware.com is where I got the weldless fitting...

you can always fab up a plug on a regular ripple element I had one before I bought the tc based one since its very convenient to be able to remove it to clean it or even replace it if it failed.

 

[ba-brewer]

thats because its very high watt density,
its easy to use a much lower watt density element and mount it in a compression fitting to use that as the threaded base.. thats what I did wuth my rims using a 36" long element that is so low density it stays 100% clean with no buildup and zero chance of scorching.

If I redo my RIMS I will look at a lower wattage solution but for now it works fine if I stay on task.

When I drain my RIMS I get only 24oz of wort and that includes the wort in the 8-10ft of silicon tubing. Guessing I may have more wort in the silicon tubing then I do in my 1" RIMS tube and that is why it scorches without movement.

What are the definitions for very high, high, low, ultra low wattage density?

If I did the math right I get 67WPI (11.25in length, .625in diameter) for the Williams element and about 75WPI(17in length, .375in diameter) for the short 1500W element in the hot rod.

 

[augiedoggy]

If I redo my RIMS I will look at a lower wattage solution but for now it works fine if I stay on task.

When I drain my RIMS I get only 24oz of wort and that includes the wort in the 8-10ft of silicon tubing. Guessing I may have more wort in the silicon tubing then I do in my 1" RIMS tube and that is why it scorches without movement.

What are the definitions for very high, high, low, ultra low wattage density?

If I did the math right I get 67WPI (11.25in length, .625in diameter) for the Williams element and about 75WPI(17in length, .375in diameter) for the short 1500W element in the hot rod.

well mines also in a 1" stainless tube. its 1/2" or 5/8 diameter (cant remember for sure) but its 36" long and 1800w I tried shorter elements (4 or them varying in wattage and size from 800w to 2000w and the longer length works better to raise temps due to longer contact time on each pass

my last brew efficiency now that im sparging slower was 91.8%

 

[enormous13]

I was hoping someone made and sold something like this idea already, for the end user, so that all you needed to do was drill a hole and do your weldless install, no messing with wiring, etc. Seems like a ripe opportunity.

 

[TexasWine]

No, get rid of the TC all together, so there would be no necessity for a tri clamp. Simply weldless threads and a weldless install with a male plug on the exterior side.

Why not just use a weldless Hot Pod enclosure from Brewhardware, install as usual but only put something like a 6" cord with male plug on it.

It's not exactly what you're asking for, but it's pretty darn close. Well, within 6" really.

I'm guessing the reason it hasn't been done has something to do with the dimensions of the nut that's found at the base of the screw in elements. It doesn't look big enough to accommodate a male outlet, especially the 240v ones.

 

[augiedoggy]

Why not just use a weldless Hot Pod enclosure from Brewhardware, install as usual but only put something like a 6" cord with male plug on it.

It's not exactly what you're asking for, but it's pretty darn close. Well, within 6" really.

I'm guessing the reason it hasn't been done has something to do with the dimensions of the nut that's found at the base of the screw in elements. It doesn't look big enough to accommodate a male outlet, especially the 240v ones.

Thats exactly what I used to do... Then I bought one of these to mount right in the hotpod ..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25A-250V-3...171510&hash=item4adbb9d5e7:g:~oQAAOSw9EJZuWkD
since the pigtail hanging off the kettle (or even the plug for that matter which can easily be damaged while moving or cleaning.)

Then found the tc based ones and decided they have more advantages... for the extra $23 it cost me to install.
For one if one ever fails (Ive had a camco brand one fail on me) I can swap out in minutes..

 

[enormous13]

Why not just use a weldless Hot Pod enclosure from Brewhardware, install as usual but only put something like a 6" cord with male plug on it.

It's not exactly what you're asking for, but it's pretty darn close. Well, within 6" really.

I'm guessing the reason it hasn't been done has something to do with the dimensions of the nut that's found at the base of the screw in elements. It doesn't look big enough to accommodate a male outlet, especially the 240v ones.

That’s not a bad idea, I️ was just trying to “slim down” the install. The hot pod seems overly large, and I️ figured there was something out there that was more streamlined, like the Williams Brewing element I️ linked in the very beginning of this thread.

Actually, is there anything that resembles that Williams heat stick, except with an ULWD element, instead of just the stick?

 

[enormous13]

Thats exactly what I used to do... Then I bought one of these to mount right in the hotpod ..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25A-250V-3...171510&hash=item4adbb9d5e7:g:~oQAAOSw9EJZuWkD
since the pigtail hanging off the kettle (or even the plug for that matter which can easily be damaged while moving or cleaning.)

Then found the tc based ones and decided they have more advantages... for the extra $23 it cost me to install.
For one if one ever fails (Ive had a camco brand one fail on me) I can swap out in minutes..

Very true, the TC does keep it easy for removal/cleaning/etc.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Taking the element out to clean it is awesome. Spend the extra $30 now, you will enjoy it every time you brew.

 

[augiedoggy]

Taking the element out to clean it is awesome. Spend the extra $30 now, you will enjoy it every time you brew.

Is much as it pains me to admit it I learned this the hard way with some things, Mainly because I had a hard time justifing the $$ at the time and my budget was smaller 4 years ago...

I started with the $6 rtds with the M8 threads and attached cords that kept getting caught on stuff and shorting out. After 3 of those I went with cheaper detachable corded probes which are well worth it if you move your kettle and clean in a sink.
Also I started with regular 4500w ripples that had the zinc coated steel base since the stainless ones were like $75 each and only available from one place then... ended up with rust, much of it hidden under the nut. I also had the cord with epoxied coupler on the element end to conseal it, then pigtail with hotpot and now the element with the tc and plug, (My HLT still has the hotpod with pigtail since that doesnt get moved or cleaned as often.)

 

[enormous13]

What are the definitions for very high, high, low, ultra low wattage density?

If I did the math right I get 67WPI (11.25in length, .625in diameter) for the Williams element and about 75WPI(17in length, .375in diameter) for the short 1500W element in the hot rod.

Sorry for the late reply, but your math seems right to me. I got the same diameter here (5/8"), and you even adjusted the length down for the actual heating length, making it more accurate. According to some other guidelines I found on watt densities (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=521294 post #2) this Williams Brewing element falls on the high end of the ULWD spectrum (50w/in. < 75w/in.), definitely lower than LWD.

Considering those figures, and the Hot Rod you compared it with, I'm beginning to think that this Williams Brewing element may be just fine, considering I'll be recirculating during mash and boil, and I'll have to make sure to keep it clean. I also read some reviews on the Hot Rod that specifically say it's being used to heat wort with no issues, which tends to affirm what I'm thinking. Worst case scenario, this stick doesn't work out for me, and I can plug the hole and only be out $30 for what I spent on it.

I'm still going to be on the lookout for a 110/120v ULWD element that resembles the streamlined install of the W.B. heat stick, like this (http://www.beerinfinity.com/wp-content/uploads/high-gravity-heating-4500w-element.jpg) or a version of this (https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1FRMdKVXXXXXhXVXXq6xXFXXXT/-31-5-cm-stainless-steel-ultra.jpg). Or maybe if I'm lucky, someone will find/come out with a plug integrated 120v ULWD element with weldless install threads.

 

[golfindia]

Skip the weldless fittings. These brewhardware radius Triclamp solder flanges are the only way to go.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15rsf.htm

They are by far the easiest fittings to silver solder. No need for exact hole size, no leaking orings. No clearence issues with foldback elements like many weldless threaded offerings.

And no affiliation, just a customer and semi experienced silver solderer.

 

[augiedoggy]

Skip the weldless fittings. These brewhardware radius Triclamp solder flanges are the only way to go.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15rsf.htm

They are by far the easiest fittings to silver solder. No need for exact hole size, no leaking orings. No clearence issues with foldback elements like many weldless threaded offerings.

And no affiliation, just a customer and semi experienced silver solderer.

Well I dont know if you have any actual experience here with the weldless tc fitting that made you form the opinion you have to believe they are the only option? But I found mine extremely easy to install and have had no issues with it at all. I would say it was much easier than soldering since it literally took less than a minute to screw on.
No clearance issues at all as the tc based elements are longer at the straight base area..
I used this one myself also from Bobby..

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15wlf.htm

 

[golfindia]

Well I dont know if you have any actual experience here with the weldless tc fitting that made you form the opinion you have to believe they are the only option? But I found mine extremely easy to install and have had no issues with it at all. I would say it was much easier than soldering since it literally took less than a minute to screw on.
No clearance issues at all as the tc based elements are longer at the straight base area..
I used this one myself also from Bobby..

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15wlf.htm

Someone is cranky. I'm sure your opinion is better than mine. Yes, I've used lots of weldless things. Good luck with the parts you choose to use.

 

[ba-brewer]

Sorry for the late reply, but your math seems right to me. I got the same diameter here (5/8"), and you even adjusted the length down for the actual heating length, making it more accurate. According to some other guidelines I found on watt densities (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=521294 post #2) this Williams Brewing element falls on the high end of the ULWD spectrum (50w/in. < 75w/in.), definitely lower than LWD.

Considering those figures, and the Hot Rod you compared it with, I'm beginning to think that this Williams Brewing element may be just fine, considering I'll be recirculating during mash and boil, and I'll have to make sure to keep it clean. I also read some reviews on the Hot Rod that specifically say it's being used to heat wort with no issues, which tends to affirm what I'm thinking. Worst case scenario, this stick doesn't work out for me, and I can plug the hole and only be out $30 for what I spent on it.

I'm still going to be on the lookout for a 110/120v ULWD element that resembles the streamlined install of the W.B. heat stick, like this (http://www.beerinfinity.com/wp-content/uploads/high-gravity-heating-4500w-element.jpg) or a version of this (https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1FRMdKVXXXXXhXVXXq6xXFXXXT/-31-5-cm-stainless-steel-ultra.jpg). Or maybe if I'm lucky, someone will find/come out with a plug integrated 120v ULWD element with weldless install threads.

Thanks for the link to HBT post, I have looked in the past and never found anything that clear. I went by the fact that the 5500W 240V ripple elements are like 60WPI so the Williams heat stick being only slightly higher should not be OK.

 

[augiedoggy]

Someone is cranky. I'm sure your opinion is better than mine. Yes, I've used lots of weldless things. Good luck with the parts you choose to use.

Ok it been a long day, I'm sorry my comment came off cold and argumentative.
But honestly as far as my opinion, I'm not claiming my opinion is the only option... I just dont think that statement is really justified is all. Your telling someone to only consider an option which is honestly a lot more work for many who dont own the equipment or have the skill to silver solder. That can discourage him altogether from even considering a tc based setup. Silver soldered is great option and is one had the choice between one or the other Id say the soldered fitting would indeed be a better choice but. The reasons you state to not consider the weldless options really dont apply with these fittings from my experience with them and the op really shouldnt be discouraged from considering all options based on what works for him unless there really is a good reason why the weldless really wouldnt work fine for him.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for the link to HBT post, I have looked in the past and never found anything that clear. I went by the fact that the 5500W 240V ripple elements are like 60WPI so the Williams heat stick being only slightly higher should not be OK.

The thing is when an element is put into a rims tube they are a lot more sensitive to and likely to scorch if conditions arent perfect vs an element in an open kettle. This is why many people run 5500w at 120v power to output 1375w in rims and have a WAY lower watt density. You also could possibly denature enzymes this way lowering efficiency.
The first rims I built used a 12" long 1/2" diameter 800w element and I ruined 15 gallons of beer before I realized what happened with scorching. sure I brewed about 20 gallons first without issues but all it took was the flow to slow enough or some grain to stick to the element near the base and it started carmelizing or burning on the element and snowballed from there and one 10 gallon and one 5 gallon brew was dumped as a result because its hard to detect the taste in sweet wort. This is likely why williams only recommends it for water at this point... Theres a good chance they likely got a lot of complaints from customers who had scorching or had it themselves in testing.

 

[Totally]

I used this one myself also from Bobby..

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15wlf.htm

I used that same weldless bulkhead in my recent build.

Highly recommended, it was super easy to drill and install. 5500W TC element with integrated L6-30P slipped right in. Makes for a clean and easy install, I would use again if I did another build.

 

[enormous13]

Thanks for the link to HBT post, I have looked in the past and never found anything that clear. I went by the fact that the 5500W 240V ripple elements are like 60WPI so the Williams heat stick being only slightly higher should not be OK.

No problem. Did you mean to say it should NOT be ok? If it’s only slightly higher I&#65039; was figuring it would be ok to use.

 

[ba-brewer]

No problem. Did you mean to say it should NOT be ok? If it’s only slightly higher I&#65039; was figuring it would be ok to use.

I goofed up, "not be" should not be there. I thought it should be OK. I think I had originally wrote should not be a problem but changed the wording and did it pay close attention.

 

[enormous13]

I goofed up, "not be" should not be there. I thought it should be OK. I think I had originally wrote should not be a problem but changed the wording and did it pay close attention.

Lol, figured that’s what you meant. Sounds good!

 

[Staticsouls]

To answer your original question of can it be done, weldless heating elements no tc fittings no heat stick, yes. Get immersion water heating elements, for your water heater. Drill a hole so they fit, and get a lock nut off amazon. I use hwd camcos from HD and they have not given me any scorching in either my boil kettle or hlt (I use 120v 20a 2000w elements). Take care to ground the elements to the vessel when wiring them up, and use gfci, but other than that it was the easiest, cheapest brew upgrade ever! Honestly DIY it was cheaper than either my pump or cfc.

 

[TexasWine]

To answer your original question of can it be done, weldless heating elements no tc fittings no heat stick, yes.

Actually, I don't think that was the original question. They were wondering if anyone makes a heating element installed through a weldless bulkhead but with a male electrical connection like the triclamp versions have.

OP, chime in if I'm off on my understanding.