Welder Recommendations Needed

[PGEduardo]

So I inherited two cheap welders, and I plan to use one of them to fabricate some simple gates out of 1" and 2" square steel tubing - 16 gauge.

Which welder should I "tune-up" and get going? Both are probably fairly new, but haven't been used in a long time (if ever really).

Harbor Freight (Chicago Electric) Arc-120 Stick welder:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002379SEC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Mine is set up for 220V, so I can run 120 amps (not sure which sticks to buy yet)

Campbell Hausfeld 85 amp Flux Core Welder:
Campbell Hausfeld 115-Volt 85-Amp Flux Welder-WF215001AV - The Home Depot

I'm leaning towards using this guy, with some decent Lincoln flux core wire (.035 size or .030?)

Since they're both fairly entry level, I didn't want to bother getting both set up with material. I'll probably sell one or the other and mess around until I decide to get a quality welder...

Thoughts? Since these are gates, I'm thinking either will work ok (not a chassis weld or anything safety related). Most tend to think the flux core wire feed are easier to use and control, but maybe I'll need the extra penetration of the 120 amp stick feed? Maybe the 120 amp stick welder won't actually produce a stronger weld?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Its been a while but I refer to anything 110 volts as a buzz box and probably not good for welding anything other than light sheet metal using 1/16th inch 6011/6012. For 1/8 thick metals I would go with 220 volts but like I say it's been a while since I owned either type.

 

[PGEduardo]

Thanks I think the general sentiment is that more amps is better for non sheet metal, and that higher voltage helps with duty cycle potentially.

I might give both a few test runs but I'm leaning towards stick now...

 

[jbb3]

Not sure how much welding experience you have but stick welding is a little more difficult to learn and control. Wire welders are much easier to learn and use right off the bat without experience.

115v/85a wire welder is not going to handle thicker metals so if you plan on welding 1/4" steel, you probably want to go with the stick welder.

 

[PGEduardo]

The steel shop said it's 16 gauge tubing, so I think that's 1/16 inch. I will buy some scrap metal to test it out I suppose. If either welder needs appreciable maintenance I'll just use the other...

 

[Beersnob16]

Just so you know, the flux core welder will require c-25 shield gas or it won't weld correctly.

 

[PGEduardo]

I was under the impression that flux core wire is designed so that gas is not needed? I'm sure adding gas would improve the weld, but standard wire feed mig welding is the setup that requires gas?

 

[jbb3]

The steel shop said it's 16 gauge tubing, so I think that's 1/16 inch. I will buy some scrap metal to test it out I suppose. If either welder needs appreciable maintenance I'll just use the other...

Close enough. Without practice/experience, you can easily burn through 16ga steel with a stick welder. I would go with the wire welder.

Wire welders don't require argon but they weld much cleaner with it. Without shield gas, make sure you clean the surface of the metal to be welded as much as possible.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

flux core wire doesn't require shield gas, but will greatly benefit from it. you can use all sorts of thin rod with the stick welder (6010, 6011, 6013 +/-, 8010, 7018, 7024). if you go with the stick, I'd recommend 6013 +/-. you can weld either positive or negative polarity and weld a wide range of stuff. 7018 has more flex to it. whichever you go with, I'd recommend a bit of practice with either on thin materials before starting your project. I lean toward stick myself.

 

[PGEduardo]

Good info from everyone. I'm thinking with some practice that the stick welder will produce a better bead...

 

[ChefRex]

With the quality of machines you're looking at I would go stick, simplicity.
And listen to Mr Klubb, not only does he do this sort of thing for a living he has a solid grasp on the way thing are.

 

[SeeMont]

First, your flux core machine is not set up for a shielding gas. It a very entry machine. With the flux core you can weld outside as long as there is little wind. The learning curve if this welder is very quick, the trick is in the set up. You need to use cautions as not to overheat this welder or the other welder for that matter. This call it a duty cycle, the percentage of time you can weld. The stick welder will be harder to use and a greater skill set, two motions rather than one. 1/16 inch material will be tough with the stick welder and will drive you to drink. Do yourself a favor and and get the wire welder up and running.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

First, your flux core machine is not set up for a shielding gas. It a very entry machine. With the flux core you can weld outside as long as there is little wind. The learning curve if this welder is very quick, the trick is in the set up. You need to use cautions as not to overheat this welder or the other welder for that matter. This call it a duty cycle, the percentage of time you can weld. The stick welder will be harder to use and a greater skill set, two motions rather than one. 1/16 inch material will be tough with the stick welder and will drive you to drink. Do yourself a favor and and get the wire welder up and running.

I don't think I've seen a suitcase or flux core box that you couldn't hook gas up to. you can get hard wire for these 110 boxes. there's a port in the back to hook the gas up to.

with a little practice, the stick welder will be more versatile. with a little practice, the wire feed will be tolerable. just remember that either of these have a low duty cycle. I'd also talk to your local weld supply about used and refurbished welders. you can get a Miller, Lincoln, or ESAB fairly decent that way too.

edit: if the wire feed doesn't have a gas port, I'd stay clear from it.

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

I happen to know a thing or two about welding. I was an AWS certified structural welder for 25 years and I've been an AWS Certified Welding Inspector for the past ten years with level II NDT in ultrasound, mag-particle, and dye pen.

The 110v wire welder will weld 16 gauge no problem. Use a self-shielding wire like Innershield NR-211 and you won't need any gas. NR-211 is an all-position wire and it's very easy to run. Innershield allows you to manipulate the electrical parameters while welding by changing your stick-out...That's the distance between the tip and the material. Start with a 3/8" stick-out and if it starts to burn through back out to 1/2". Get rid of the shade 12 green lens and use a 9 or 10 gold lens so you see what your doing. If possible plug the welder directly into a 20amp outlet with nothing else on the circuit. Fit-up is important. Measure twice cut once. A fillet weld doesn't need to be any bigger than the thickness of material...You don't need to oscillate the puddle. Realize that the weld will pull don't fight it use it it to your advantage.

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

BTW - NR-211 runs straight polarity...Positive ground and negative electrode

 

[PGEduardo]

Thanks for all the advice. I wound up going with the flux core mig welder since it supposedly is more beginner friendly. I was burning a lot of holes at first but finally started getting the hang of it. My gates are going to come out amazing..

View attachment 1445889091990.jpg

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

FYI - Even though both use a 'wire' electrode flux core (FCAW) and mig (GMAW) are two different welding processes. GMAW is a solid or 'hard' wire and shielding gas is required. FCAW...let the wind blow no worries.

If you're burning through try welding in the vertical position start at the top and travel down. This is a no-no is structural welding but perfectly fine for sheet metal (thickness 1/8" & under)

 

[Owly055]

Just so you know, the flux core welder will require c-25 shield gas or it won't weld correctly.

NR211 MP wire does not need shielding gas or benefit from it. A "flux core" welder does not have the capability of using a shielding gas. Neither the valve, or a gas passage in the gun.

Neither of these welders is really worth owning. There are excellent small MIG welders available at reasonable cost that operate on 120 volt. Solid wire with shielding gas will produce far nicer welds, but this cannot be used outdoors, as any breeze will blow the gas off the weld. These welders are capable of using both solid and flux core wires. You want to look at the next level.... usually around 135 amp rated. More than that requires 220 volt power.

Eastwood offers an excellent small inverter MIG rated at 250 amps that will run on either 120 or 220 volts..... You can't get full power at 120 of course. The entire unit weighs only 66 pounds. It's a bargain at $765 currently, compared to the 120 volt units commonly available at around $500

I have quite a few welders ranging from a 135 amp mig to a 400 amp inverter that runs my big MIG and stick welding, a 425 amp Hobart stick / tig welder, and a tiny DC stick / tig that runs on 120 or 220, and weighs 14 pounds. I use the little mig welder most, and am thinking of upgrading into the Eastwood unit. The extra power will be a real asset. It will take over quite a bit of my welding.

H.W.

 

[PGEduardo]

I will most likely end up buying a nicer, name-brand MIG welder in the near future, but for welding up some steel gates I'd say that either one of these welders is worth their weight in gold. At under $100 + wire ($12/roll at HD), I will have custom gates strong enough to sit on at less than 1/3 the price I would have paid a pro to build them (literally saving me at least $2000, or the price of a REALLY nice MIG setup).

I'm definitely the type to pay extra for gold-plating and top-shelf equipment, but for what they are these cheap welders are COMPLETELY worth owning. Now if you're building something structural or safety related with thicker metals... maybe not.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

my old "Flux Core" had a port for gas. I'd never own another one. but if you like what you have, keep using it!

 

[PGEduardo]

The only thing I don't like is the fumes. Headaches and nosebleeds made me realize I need to get serious about ventilation. I'll finish up this project and most likely upgrade for my next big project (after building a proper welding table). For someone looking to learn to weld as a hobby on a budget - I'd whole-heartedly recommend one of these based on my amateur experience. Looking to do some serious welding? Nah.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

The only thing I don't like is the fumes. Headaches and nosebleeds made me realize I need to get serious about ventilation. I'll finish up this project and most likely upgrade for my next big project (after building a proper welding table). For someone looking to learn to weld as a hobby on a budget - I'd whole-heartedly recommend one of these based on my amateur experience. Looking to do some serious welding? Nah.

I'd make your welding table your next big project. and a set of weld horses.:rockin:

 

[PGEduardo]

I'm debating how far to take that one.

Ideally I'd have a drilled and tapped metal top that I could use with machine clamps. I'm sure I can get by with clever clamps and vise grips though...

 

[Fedora]

Thanks for all the advice. I wound up going with the flux core mig welder since it supposedly is more beginner friendly. I was burning a lot of holes at first but finally started getting the hang of it. My gates are going to come out amazing..

You're doing great with what you've got. You'll never run a nice pretty bead with that cracker jack MIG machine and no shielding gas but it'll hold, and that's what counts.

I ran over 1500, 1" welds today with a MIG machine. My eyes feel like they're gonna fall out of my head. Beer helps.

Cheers!

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I've been telling people lately that I'm not a weld, I'm a long string tacker.

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

Nosebleeds? From welding?

 

[Willy_Liverdye]

2am arc flash?

Sliced potatoes on the eye-lid

Don't know why...But it sure helps

 

[PGEduardo]

Nosebleeds? From welding?

Yeah it could be from having the heater on at night finally, but my nosebleeds are directly correlated to having welded the day before. Never got them from the heater before.

Google seems to indicate that welding fumes nosebleeds are indeed a thing...

 

[Fedora]

I get nosebleeds occasionally but from allergies and dry weather. Maybe better ventilationis in order?

Potatoes work. No idea why.

 

[PGEduardo]

I definitely upped my ventilation game last night, but still had a headache immediately after and a nosebleed today. For this reason alone I'll upgrade to gas mig sooner than later...

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I was always told it was the starches in the potatoes, but I have no scientific evidence to back that up. back when i was pipe welding, new guys in the shop would get nose bleeds. I figured they weren't used to the welding smoke. we had very poor ventilation in that shop. and fwiw, I learned a great deal of puddle control running 7018. if you want to learn a little bit of everything, look for a used one of these http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K2403-2%28LincolnElectric%29. it's a damn fine welder capable of MIG, stick, TIG, and pulse. I would love to have one in my shop, but we have very very little need for stick or TIG. I welded a ton of pipe (stick) and a crap load of structural (MIG/pulse/stick) with this welder in my old shop. ESAB has a similar machine without all the fancy options that runs like a bat out of hell too. but look for a used one unless you want to drop 5 grand or more.