water profile question

[NBBC13]

I live in Concord MA. water profile here has been excellent the last several years for brewing. just add a little gypsum for hazy IPAs. last year, town switched water sources and now the amount of Na and Cl has skyrocketed. new water profile is below. my question is : is this chloride so high, that adding copious amounts of gypsum will or will not be able to balance the water profile for a hazy IPA? I read that a good chloride to sulfate ratio is 2:1 for hazy IPAs? thoughts?

Calcium = 32 ppm
Mg = 40 ppm
Sodium 188 ppm (up from 30 ppm)
Chloride = 250 ppm (up from 20-40 ppm)
sulfate = 50 ppm

 

[VikeMan]

You can't really "balance" crazy amounts of chlorides by adding sulfate (or vice versa). The actual amounts also matter (not just the ratios).

Looking at your water profile, I see building from distilled or RO water in your future.

 

[McKnuckle]

I agree. You can't do much with that water. The chloride, sodium, and magnesium are all in the clouds. Even blending 50/50 with RO water, it's barely an improvement. That sucks to have the town make a switch like that. It seems like pretty extreme water for drinking, to be honest. Most tap water is massaged into something a bit softer.

 

[mabrungard]

Are you sure that increase in Na and Cl isn’t a winter occurrence due to road salt? I recommend checking the quality a few months after the last salting event.

 

[day_trippr]

Hmmm...Concord has at least 6 well fields and access to a couple of ponds for backups.
And given how hard-assed the State is about ground-water-influenced water supplies I'd be surprised if road salt this early in the winter is a factor...

Cheers!

 

[NBBC13]

Are you sure that increase in Na and Cl isn’t a winter occurrence due to road salt? I recommend checking the quality a few months after the last salting event.

It's a good point, but I've checked it three times throughout the year, only a small variation. I figured it's too much to overcome. using distilled water and building a profile is disheartening if you're doing an 11 gallon all-grain batch. that's a lot of water to buy for each batch. might be more doable on 5 gallon batch, which is what I switch to in the winter

 

[day_trippr]

If you're serious about brewing, a RO system can make the water part a breeze.
If you're interested, start a conversation with HBT member Russ @Buckeye_Hydro. Russ got me set up with my 100gpd system and I haven't had to even think about water quality in years. Just plug the RO numbers into Bru'n Water and let it work its magic. Considering I usually approach the 200 gallon limit it's easily paid for itself by now vs buying water...

Cheers!

 

[Moose_MI]

+1 for Buckeye Hydro. My 100gpd system just arrived and I cant wait to get it hooked up. Russ is great to work with. Only complaint is that ”Buckeye” label on my RO system. I have a mod planned for that though.

Cheers!

 

[NBBC13]

If you're serious about brewing, a RO system can make the water part a breeze.
If you're interested, start a conversation with HBT member Russ @Buckeye_Hydro. Russ got me set up with my 100gpd system and I haven't had to even think about water quality in years. Just plug the RO numbers into Bru'n Water and let it work its magic. Considering I usually approach the 200 gallon limit it's easily paid for itself by now vs buying water...

Cheers!

yes, came to the conclusion last night and pulled trigger on RO system. should work well - I built a greenhouse that is also my brewhouse in winter time, should be able to hook it up in there. one question, when you are planning a brewday, are you just filling up buckets or do you use a receiving tank for the RO water?

 

[Moose_MI]

I got the 14G pressurized holding tank which I think holds about 9G of water according to specs

 

[day_trippr]

I run straight from the membrane to my kettles the evening before brew days. At a bit over 4gph it doesn't take long to put the 20-24 gallons needed in the brew rig...

Cheers!

 

[hottpeper13]

" Go Blue"

 

[yeastseeker]

your Chloride and sulfate levels look good for a NEIPA tbh, maybe the sulfate is a little low, but that sodium level is ridiculously high! are municipalities allowed to have that much sodium in their water? Honestly I wouldn't brew any beer with water that contains that much sodium.

 

[mabrungard]

According to WHO, the limit for sodium is 250 ppm. That is based on aesthetics, in that water tends to start tasting salty at about that level.

 

[yeastseeker]

According to WHO, the limit for sodium is 250 ppm. That is based on aesthetics, in that water tends to start tasting salty at about that level.

188ppm couldnt have a positive impact on beer, right?

 

[VikeMan]

188ppm couldnt have a positive impact on beer, right?

It depends on the beer. It could be awesome in a sweet/"pastry" stout. But that sort of sodium level should probably be planned/built where appropriate, and not included in every beer by default.

 

[NBBC13]

I thought I read somewhere that too much sodium can help clarify a beer, which I think is happening with my hazy IPAs.

 

[VikeMan]

I thought I read somewhere that too much sodium can help clarify a beer, which I think is happening with my hazy IPAs.

I've never heard this. I think there are fining agents made from sodium silicate, but I don't think sodium ions do anything to improve clarity on their own. If you can remember where you read this, I'd be very interested.

 

[mabrungard]

When we were writing the Water book, John Palmer did his own testing and assessment of sodium effects on beer and he found that fairly high levels can still be quite palatable and pleasant. I don’t recall the levels, but I’m sure it was above 100 ppm sodium.

I wouldn’t typically target that much sodium, but it’s not a terrible thing.

 

[Moose_MI]

+1 for Buckeye Hydro. My 100gpd system just arrived and I cant wait to get it hooked up. Russ is great to work with. Only complaint is that ”Buckeye” label on my RO system. I have a mod planned for that though.

Cheers!

And here she is...the picture does not do it justice. It’s a shame such a work of art is hung so unceremoniously in a dark corner of my basement. It should have cherubim around it or something..at least a ballon. This thing is so cool...TDS in 125ppm...7ppm out
It was so easy...Russ is freaking awesome to work with. I hate plumbing and I had zero issues

Go get one..you know you wanna!