WARNING: Plastic buckets are not safe

Yakima 728
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" My friend who works as a birth assistant has seen a huge increase in birth defects, attributed by the doctors at her hospital to endocrine disruptors."

Ok list them one by one. We'll review the myriad of possible reasons and try to isolate one of them.
 
This could be the ticket to a new super useful tool to be sold in all LBHS's around the globe... HOMEBREWER BRAS!! Think about it... NASCAR type emblems, football teams, camo!!
 
kh54s10 said:
I tried to read the study. Way to technical for me. I am still not worried. If I suddenly grow double D's I will then get rid of all my plastics.
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I would probably stop brewing if that happened to me, but that's because I wouldn't have time to brew anymore.... :D

In the meantime, I'll stick with my Better Bottles.
 
zbouri said:
"We used a roboticized MCF-7 cell proliferation assay... to quantify the EA of chemicals leached into saline or ethanol extracts of many types of commercially available plastic materials, some exposed to common-use stresses...

Results: Almost all commercially available plastic products we sampled—independent of the type of resin, product, or retail source—leached chemicals having reliably detectable EA" (EA means Estrogenic Activity)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222987/

Yes I realize that this one doesn't specifically mention 'food-grade'. This is not the original article, its just the first one I found. I read the original a year ago. I'm sorry, I am too hungry and I must get ready for work. If you want to call me a troll, fine.

Am I being too paranoid? My friend who works as a birth assistant has seen a huge increase in birth defects, attributed by the doctors at her hospital to endocrine disruptors in our environment.

So yeah, I'm a little concerned.

It is quite possible that dangerous compounds dissolve into our beer. Its also possible they don't. Personally, I choose to err on the side of caution, and I respectfully suggest that you do so as well.
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This study would be a bit more convincing if 4 out of the 5 authors didn't work for either:

1) CertiChem (http://www.certichem.com/) - a company that wants to sell you assay kits to detect endocrine disruptors.

2) PlastiPure (http://plastipure.com/) - a company that wants to sell you plastics guaranteed to be free of endocrine distruptors.
 
bdh said:
This study would be a bit more convincing if 4 out of the 5 authors didn't work for either:

1) CertiChem (http://www.certichem.com/) - a company that wants to sell you assay kits to detect endocrine disruptors.

2) PlastiPure (http://plastipure.com/) - a company that wants to sell you plastics guaranteed to be free of endocrine distruptors.
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If we listed every product on the grocery shelves that was packaged in plastic we would have a long list, indeed. Let's see, every pop known to man, and almost every other item.

I am really mad that no one ever checked its safety before today. But I will listen to facts that can be completely isolated from other factors.

I am just glad that my wife likes homebrew. This is encouraging.
 
If it's food grade HDPE brew buckets which are easier on my back, or glass carboys which are much heavier and more inclined to break, I'll stick with HDPE buckets. It's not like I'm ever going to give birth. Since I started home brewing I've noticed a far more significant affect on my waist line than I have my upper body.
 
I was wondering why I watch Steel Magnolias twice a week since I started homenrewing. I promise if I start watching The View I will start brewing in glass.
 
bdh said:
This study would be a bit more convincing if 4 out of the 5 authors didn't work for either:

1) CertiChem (http://www.certichem.com/) - a company that wants to sell you assay kits to detect endocrine disruptors.

2) PlastiPure (http://plastipure.com/) - a company that wants to sell you plastics guaranteed to be free of endocrine distruptors.
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I completely agree. The first thing I look at when I read any primary literature is the conflict of interest statement. I'm more inclined to believe the findings if the authors do not have a financial interest in the research.

In addition I also found this statement in the paper:
We recognize that we quantitatively measured EA relative to E2 (EC50 or %RME2) using sensitive assay and extraction protocols. Furthermore, it is almost impossible to gauge how much EA anyone is exposed to, given such unknowns as the number of chemicals having EA, their relative EA, their release rate under different conditions, and their metabolic degradation products or half-lives in vivo. In addition, the appropriate levels of EA in males versus females at different life stages are currently unknown.
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Translation: They found something in the laboratory with little idea of it's relevance to human health other than fear mongering (and pushing their assay).

I read through the paper and had many issues with the methodology. Rather than plow through my issues, I'll just link one of the responses to the paper.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3230411/

The highlights:
1) Thus, sensitive in vitro detection may not portend estrogenic effects amid the endogenous and dietary hormonal milieu.
2) Although food typically contacts only the inside surface of containers, Yang et al. extracted materials from 4-mm squares of cut plastic, exposing the inside, outside, and cut surfaces to the extraction medium. Substances may leach into food from the exposed surface of a plastic container but do not typically migrate through the plastic layer
3) They relied on a very limited in vitro screen to model a very complex system, and those reviewing the study should be aware of the limitations of the approach and the interpretation of such data.
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This one feels strangely familiar.

"Don't eat paint chips."

"Don't eat chunks of plastic."

Any baby boomers (left) out there notice a striking parallelism? ;)
 
While not mentioned, I wonder if they zero'd out their test material? Was the EA in it from before?

What isn't well talked about is that much of our water has this in it already and has for 40+ years. So unless they generated distilled salt water, it calls that part into question. I'm not sure about the alcohol.
 
LOL....

Compressed hop tablets are sold over the counter as 'natural breast enlargement' tablets.

Seriously, no jokes...

so why am I worried about the absolutely tiny *potential* amounts of these compounds leeching from a food grade pail, when I'm purposefully soaking my bucket in upwards of 4oz of hops per batch?
 
If you are using a crappy bucket from lowes or Home Depot this pertains to you. These plastic fermenters are food grade meaning mention to have liquid in them. They also stand up to like 50% ABV I'm not even a little bit worried about this. Someone earlier said it best. "Look in your cabinets and fridge" plastic has been around for a while if it were not safe we would have heard about it by now.
 
zbouri said:
Am I being too paranoid? My friend who works as a birth assistant has seen a huge increase in birth defects, attributed by the doctors at her hospital to endocrine disruptors in our environment.
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This is either 1) a lie or 2) indicative of the doctors in her hospital being ridiculously cavalier about things that are most likely based in complete and utter BS.
 
I think it's wise to be skeptical in regards to articles that mention finding "detectable levels" of a scary-sounding substance. There are lots and lots of things that are detectable at much lower levels than toxic ones. There are "detectable" levels of radioactive potassium-40 levels in bananas, for example.

Of course, there are also substances that can kill you in very very small amounts (certain organic mercury compounds, famously). But it's generally a good idea to look closely at these claims.
 
EO74 said:
HA.....this hole time I thought my man boobs were from my homebrew??:eek:
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Indeed... worrying about trace amounts of synthetic estrogens leeching from the plastic is strange.

Alcohol consumption (anything more than about 1-2 units daily) interferes with liver function, which means testosterone is not removed from the bloodstream as fast. When that excess testosterone reaches fat cells, it gets turned into estrogen which then circulates round the body until it too is broken down (again by the liver so an impaired liver will remove it slower.)

The more alcohol you drink, and the more body fat you have, the more estrogen you will have in your system. This is why heavy drinkers get man boobs and can have fertility problems. Exercise, losing body fat and cutting down on drinking will reverse these changes - unless permanent liver damage has occurred.

While the amount of estrogens in plastics may have a tiny additional effect, its not going to be anywhere near as much as the effect of the alcohol in our beer. I'm all for avoiding heavy metals and other such poisons but I'm not going to switch to brewing in glass - especially not with a small child in the house who loves to "help" on brewdays.
 
I'm in the glass camp.

I prefer to ferment in glass and SS for a lot of reasons.

but just making crap up about plastic is silly.
 
I have had an a-cup before I started fermenting in plastic. I have however lowered my blood pressure by fermenting in plastic, as well as my foot feels much better now.
 
Every type of plastics we use have EDs, from plastic cups to cell phones. They can all effect our offspring or future generations. So I wouldn't worry too much about fermenting in plastic buckets because everything we use that is plastic contains Endocrine Disruptors.
 
temple240 said:
How can you post this without posting your sources? I'll take my chances with food grade fermenters instead of panicking over unsubstantiated claims from someone who just joined the forum.
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For a source just feel free to take any biology/environmental science class in college to find out about EDs.
 
slohsandt said:
For a source just feel free to take any biology/environmental science class in college to find out about EDs.
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That article never came up in my environmental science classes. My doctor's office has pamphlets about ED, does this qualify as one of your sources?
 
Piratwolf said:
Looks like we're missing a potential up-side: will my wife's boobs get bigger too?
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Probably, but you're missing the point, you and your wife will be sitting together on the couch, crying about the excess weight gain, instead of enjoying the larger boobs.
 
temple240 said:
That article never came up in my environmental science classes. My doctor's office has pamphlets about ED, does this qualify as one of your sources?
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Obvious troll is obvious....maybe you should have either paid attention in class or taken a class within the last 3 years
 

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