Vortex IPA, Opinion Please

[New_Climber]

I wanted to ask for opinions on the following recipe. It is a clone of Ft George Vortex in Astoria Oregon. The last several IPA's I have made all had a very bitter finish. This time I will be kegging this batch, also I have upped the OG much higher then I usually go.

Any opinions or changes are very much welcome,

Thx
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Vortex - all grain
Imperial IPA


Type: Partial Mash
Date: 9/12/2012
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Green House Brewing Company
Boil Size: 6.00 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5.56 %
13.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.22 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
2.00 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 36.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (50 min) Hops 26.6 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (1 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (1 min) Hops 2.4 IBU

2 packets of S-04 yeast



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.088 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.022 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.59 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 111.0 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 13.5 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 5.50 gal of water at 165.5 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 3.00 gal of water at 197.3 F 168.0 F
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[djonas]

So this looks to be one big bastard... I don't know the beer you are modeling after but I will point out that the estimated final gravity makes this beer seem more like a barleywine than an IIPA. But maybe that is due to the fact that many Midwest IIPAs are cut with stuff like honey or sugar to dry them out a bit. Not sure how the West Coast does it save for Lagunitas. Their Hop Stoopid has some initial gravity around 1.070 but they crank 8% or 9% out of their wort. So either they are using some massively attenuating yeast or also using some sugars. My point is that often IPAs are drier to let the hops and bitterness shine through uninhibited.

Just my $0.02.

 

[New_Climber]

So, maybe replace the Light Dry Extract with a pound of corn sugar. I know the corn sugar will ferment all the way, I am just not sure if this will lower my FG though?

My issue with all my IPA or IIPA is that they have a very bitter finish. I really think it is in my bottling and also in my fermenting temp. Of which this time I am changing both of these situations...I am now kegging, and I am going to do the swamp cooler thing when I ferment.

Thx again for the opinions...

 

[djonas]

Well it depends on what you want! I personally like more meaty beers regardless of style but a lot of people like a drier finish on bigger beers to keep them from being overly sweet and easier to drink, since a nice level of dryness can help clean the palate after the swallow. I think a lot of people like that in an IPA, but this is your beer so make it to your liking!

If you replace the DME with sugar it will lower your final gravity and thus dry it out some. Buuuut, the bitterness should be there in an IPA...especially if you have a lot of AAs early in the boil. I guess different hops will impart different kinds of bitterness, so maybe you could explore that. I am not sure if fermentation or bottling can alter your bitterness, but I have never bottle fermented. Maybe you can describe the problem in more detail?

 

[terrapinj]

i've never used 2lbs of victory before but seems to be a bit much to me

you could try softening the bitterness by doing First Wort Hopping - adding the hops to the kettle as you collect your 1st runnings

will give more emphasis on hop flavor and less on bitterness - esp since you've got simcoe in there at 60min

i'd go with sugar over the DME esp if you are mashing at 154° - 1.022 is too high for my preference for IIPA

also be sure to do a nice heavy dry hop - either before you keg or add them to the keg in a hop sock etc

 

[New_Climber]

. I am not sure if fermentation or bottling can alter your bitterness, but I have never bottle fermented. Maybe you can describe the problem in more detail?

Some people have said it tastes like esters...if I remember correctly. The best way I describe it...is bitter beer face...sometimes to the point that I dump it out it is so bad. I notice that the longer my bottles sit the worse it gets. They also get over carbonated, which is a sign that it is going to be a HORRIBLE beer.

This seems to only happen to my IPA. At first I though that I was just come up with bad recipes, then I thought I needed to keep my temperature during fermentation down. I now cool it about 64deg-65deg...and a normal IPA will rise up to 70deg in the winter. For this beer, I have been reading the "swamp cooler" idea of which I am going to do. Since I have been kegging, I have not made a IPA...of which IPA's are my favorite beer to drink....this Fort George Vortex being my up most favorite IPA....

Anyway, I am very hesitant to make a big IPA like this...hence why I am asking for opinions...

I will definitely switch to corn sugar...also the reason for so much Victory, I was modeling a recipe I found on Hopville web page to start....maybe to much? I am about 24% of my total grain bill with specialty grains...rule of thumb for me has been to keep them about 20%.

Thx again for the input...

 

[djonas]

I think I am getting it...it is not a hoppy bitterness but perhaps another compound. I would suggest contamination but if it is only with your IPA, that is unlikely. I guess make sure your hops and yeast aren't too old and that the shop is storing the yeast properly. Speaking of yeast, I noticed that you are using an English style yeast; they can go crazy with esters if the temperatures are higher! Maybe try the US-05?

Well, fermentation temperature pretty much makes or breaks a beer so it is important to regulate it if you can. But honestly, I have made beers that fermented around 62 degrees F and others at 72 degrees F using similar yeasts and they all turned out fine. But if you must ferment on the warmer side, just pitch a decent amount of yeast and always aerate well.

As an aside, I just moved and left much of my hardware elsewhere. So I too am swamp cooling a beer at the moment. Trying to keep the water around the low to mid sixties, but who knows what the interior carboy temperature really is...well, we'll find out in another week when I check the SG...

 

[New_Climber]

Thanks a bunch for the ideas and suggestions....

I think I am going to use the S05 instead...and try and keep my temp in control a little bit more then I usually do.....My next project is to build a fermenting chamber, of which would help a lot...

Anyway, I think I am going to brew this next weekend, so I guess we will see how it turns out..

Thanks again...

 

[djonas]

Best of luck, mate! Good ideas you got there; don't forget to keep us updated

 

[terrapinj]

i take recipes on hopville with a grain of salt unless you know they are tried and true or have been brewed by many others it could be anyone making the recipe from a 1st timer to an experienced pro

i prefer the recipe section here since there is generally plenty of feedback

also since you are trying to clone or model it after a beer you could try emailing the brewer(y) and see if they'll give you any feedback