Vienna SMaSH recipe critique

[jturman35]

Hey guys doing my first SMaSH and looking for some input. How does this look?

2.5 gal batch
OG 1.064
IBU 66.8
SRM 5.3

6lbs Vienna Weyerman
.50oz Amarillo 60min
.25oz Amarillo 30min
1oz Whirlpool 20 mins
WLP001 yeast
1oz dryhop 7 days

 

[thehaze]

These are personal thoughts:

- The OG is too high and looking at your hop schedule and hop amount, I believe you will not get much out of your hops. For a smash, I would go much lower, like 1.050-1.055. With the right yeast, you are looking at a FG of 1.008-1.010, which will make for a dry, crisp, easy drinking beer. ( water profile and pH are also very important to consider )

- I think the IBUs are also a tad higher. You want some bitterness, but you also want the flavours of the hops to shine through.

- Double the hops. Personally, for 2.5 gallons, I would go 3-4 oz in the boil and 3 oz for the dry hopping

- Reduce the dry hopping time to 3-5 days. I now only dry hop for 3 days and the aroma is potent, vibrant, fresh, green! A longer period of time tames the raw aroma, I like from hops.

The yeast is spot on for a smash. US-05 and Nottingham ( I like it and it also makes pretty clear beer, without too much hassle ) are also options to consider.

Cheers!

 

[jturman35]

These are personal thoughts:

- The OG is too high and looking at your hop schedule and hop amount, I believe you will not get much out of your hops. For a smash, I would go much lower, like 1.050-1.055. With the right yeast, you are looking at a FG of 1.008-1.010, which will make for a dry, crisp, easy drinking beer. ( water profile and pH are also very important to consider )

- I think the IBUs are also a tad higher. You want some bitterness, but you also want the flavours of the hops to shine through.

- Double the hops. Personally, for 2.5 gallons, I would go 3-4 oz in the boil and 3 oz for the dry hopping

- Reduce the dry hopping time to 3-5 days. I now only dry hop for 3 days and the aroma is potent, vibrant, fresh, green! A longer period of time tames the raw aroma, I like from hops.

The yeast is spot on for a smash. US-05 and Nottingham ( I like it and it also makes pretty clear beer, without too much hassle ) are also options to consider.

Cheers!

If I double the hops and decrease the malt to 1.050-1.055 will the malt still come through? My goal is a balanced beer, so I can taste what Vienna and Amarillo bring to the table.

My preference is a little more aggressive in your face style rather than easy drinking. Although that may not work for a SMaSH recipe.

 

[ProblemChild]

With the flavor of Vienna, I might be inclined to switch hops. This will not be bad (after mods) by any means, but the malty and ever-so-slightly sweet flavor may lend itself to a slightly wider flavor spectrum. Ahtanum comes to mind. So does Simcoe, Chinook and even centannial

 

[kh54s10]

That looks like a strong somewhat bitter IPA.

Look at the sliders. Your OG is high, your bitterness is high and your ABV is high.

I would use less at the 60 minute. Take the difference and make equal additions at 15 minutes and 5 minutes, eliminating the 30 minute addition. If you want balanced get the IBU slider in the middle of the green. At the moment it looks like a hop bomb.

 

[kh54s10]

With the flavor of Vienna, I might be inclined to switch hops. This will not be bad (after mods) by any means, but the malty and ever-so-slightly sweet flavor may lend itself to a slightly wider flavor spectrum. Ahtanum comes to mind. So does Simcoe, Chinook and even centannial

I disagree. Amarillo is a great hop and IMO would go well with any base malt. Just different from one to another.

 

[jturman35]

What style would this fit under? The first pic I had Pale Ale. I changed it last night to an IPA.

I have read that some SMaSH recipes lack the hop profile in the middle which is why I added a 30min addition. I wanted a balance of the hop flavors to be rounded instead of one dimensional. I could remove the 30min and add at 15?

 

[ProblemChild]

I disagree. Amarillo is a great hop and IMO would go well with any base malt. Just different from one to another.

Suppose it is a matter of preferences. I love amarillo (a LOT)- just some situations, it leaves me wanting

 

[kh54s10]

Suppose it is a matter of preferences. I love amarillo (a LOT)- just some situations, it leaves me wanting

I disagree. Amarillo is a great hop and IMO would go well with any base malt. Just different from one to another.

This is where personal tastes come into the equation. I might see a big difference with Amarillo with a pale malt and one with Vienna. I would probably prefer one over the other and you might be opposite. They will be different and I would say both would be very good.

 

[MX1]

my 2 cents..

Make it and APA not an IPA...….
hit the middle marks on your sliders, and make sure you hit your temps on brew day....152-154 mash temp.

make it all middle of the road, for me, that is how I have the best chance of understanding what is going on in my beer.

MX1

 

[MX1]

This is where personal tastes come into the equation. I might see a big difference with Amarillo with a pale malt and one with Vienna. I would probably prefer one over the other and you might be opposite. They will be different and I would say both would be very good.

And this is where the SMaSH concept comes into play...brew them both and understand how each influences the other....

MX1

 

[MX1]

This is how I would do it.....but this is me...you Brew you....lol

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: SMaSH

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 2.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.025
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 5%
IBU (tinseth): 45.78
SRM (morey): 6.21

FERMENTABLES:
5 lb - American - Vienna (100%)

HOPS:
0.25 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 21.99
0.25 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.2, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.9
0.5 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.2, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 200 °F, IBU: 6.89

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 0 min, Amount: 0 qt

YEAST:
White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76.5%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 68 - 73 F

 

[universalfrost]

ditto to all comments on lowering the SG to 1.050 to 1.040 range and switching the hops...

I prefer centennial or cascade.

here's my go to Vienna smash using cascade..

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Vienna Cascade Smash

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.040
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.048
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 4.59%
IBU (tinseth): 31.5
SRM (morey): 5.82

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Vienna (100%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 15.41
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Aroma for 10 min, IBU: 5.59
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Aroma for 5 min, IBU: 3.07
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Aroma for 2 min, IBU: 1.3
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Whirlpool for 0 min at 140 °F, IBU: 6.13
1 oz - Cascade, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 4.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 120 F, Time: 20 min, Amount: 3.33 gal, protein rest
2) Temperature, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 0 gal, Vorlauf constantly
3) Fly Sparge, Temp: 175 F, Time: 20 min, Amount: 6.45 gal
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.33 qt/lb

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 tsp - Wyeast yeast nutrient, Time: 15 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Boil
1 each - Whirlfloc Tablet, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Danstar - American West Coast Yeast BRY-97
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 72%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 62 - 75 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

PRIMING:
Method: Forced Carbonation

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Balanced Profile
Ca2: 80
Mg2: 5
Na: 25
Cl: 75
SO4: 80
HCO3: 100
Water Notes:


This recipe has been published online at:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/644795/vienna-cascade-smash

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2018-05-30 23:46 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2018-05-30 23:37 UTC

 

[ProblemChild]

This is where personal tastes come into the equation. I might see a big difference with Amarillo with a pale malt and one with Vienna. I would probably prefer one over the other and you might be opposite. They will be different and I would say both would be very good.

I also suppose it is a matter of feeling comfortable with entering a forum and providing an opinion where one is asked for. Not sure the reason for the need to contradict me so firmly. PLease sir - tell me what I did wrong?

 

[kh54s10]

It didn't seem so firm. I was just trying to say that I think Amarillo is a great hop and I think it would be a good choice.

 

[jturman35]

 

[MX1]

Heck yeah!
Brew that Bad Boy!

 

[eetu]

I agree with many that the original recipe is a bit on the heavy side. I like to keep my smash beers at a session level. It gives more room for the aroma and your palate has easier time putting it together. To me, smash is all about research. That's the only real reason and that is also why the recipes should be constructed from scientific perspective.

OG around 1.050, IBU 40 and good aroma hopping. Should work every time.

 

[EternalHoppiness]

I love Vienna in SMaSH beers, and have done a handful. Though like others suggest, I typically aim for ~1.052 and ~35 IBU to prevent hops and malt from overwhelming each other.

I did a Vienna Amarillo SMaSH a few years back, and it wasn't bad, though I probably won't SMaSH with Amarillo again for a while (and I do like it a lot in other recipes). I have done the identical recipe several times with Mosaic instead of Amarillo, and it has been a favorite of my friends and family. For 2.5 gallons, my recipe would scale to something like:

OG: 1.051
IBU: 35
Mash temp: 152
5.5 lbs Vienna (adjust based on expected efficiency)
1/2 oz Amarillo - FWH (adjust quantity based on alpha %)
1/2 oz Amarillo - 10 min
1/2 oz Amarillo - 5 min
1/2 oz Amarillo - 0 min
1 oz Amarillo - Dry Hop
WLP090 - San Diego Super (US05 would be fine)

I also typically add a couple oz (amount calculated with BrunWater) of acid malt to my SMaSHes (I know, then it's not truly a SMaSH) to adjust mash PH , but I suppose the need will depend on your water profile.

Anyway, this is just my preference and experience. Whatever you choose, go for it, report back, and try again with changes. SMaSHes are definitely good for research (and for drinking).