Vieille harvest dregs

[TastyAdventure]

Nice! I will be pitching into 1 gal next weekend. Let us know when you decide to bottle. Seems like it won't be nearly as long as your standard Brett/bacteria beer

 

[kbindera]

I just racked it onto 3 pounds Oregon canned tart cherries and tossed in a chunk of a wine barrel stave. Will let you know how it develops in a few weeks.

 

[rupert130]

Awesome, I am planning to brett half a batch of saison that is fermenting now with INISBC 291. I will rack off a gallon and pitch the dregs of the bottle of vieille my wife bought me and see what happens.

 

[rupert130]

Awesome, I am planning to brett half a batch of saison that is fermenting now with INISBC 291. I will rack off a gallon and pitch the dregs of the bottle of vieille my wife bought me and see what happens.

So I decided to just go for it and pitched the dregs into 3 gallons of beer fermented down to 1.004 SG. If there's pedio in the mix, I doubt there's much for it to chew on. The brett strains should work on the byproducts of the primary fermentation though.

 

[J343MY]

Just to add to this thread, about 2 years ago I put together a Saison yeast blend. It started out as Dupont, Trois, & build up bottle dregs form a bottle of Surette. Over the past 1.5 years, I've been repitching it over and over to see how it evolves. It has always produced a bit of acidity, but recently it has been souring very aggressively. My last saison was down to 3.25 pH in about a month, and absolutely delicious.

I brought a sample to my yeast guy, and he confirmed there was lacto and a lot of pedio present.

 

[J343MY]

Edit: Double post

 

[tagz]

Just to add to this thread, about 2 years ago I put together a Saison yeast blend. It started out as Dupont, Trois, & build up bottle dregs form a bottle of Surette. Over the past 1.5 years, I've been repitching it over and over to see how it evolves. It has always produced a bit of acidity, but recently it has been souring very aggressively. My last saison was down to 3.25 pH in about a month, and absolutely delicious.

I brought a sample to my yeast guy, and he confirmed there was lacto and a lot of pedio present.

How long do you go grain to glass with that blend?

 

[J343MY]

How long do you go grain to glass with that blend?

I've done anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months so far. 2 weeks was kegged.

 

[TastyAdventure]

I've done anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months so far. 2 weeks was kegged.

2 weeks??? How? But I thought... Don't these bugs take a long time? Shortest I've heard was 3 months!

 

[finsfan]

2 weeks??? How? But I thought... Don't these bugs take a long time? Shortest I've heard was 3 months!

Edit: this is my opinion/thoughts from what ive read but more info on this would be great.

If you have a large healthy pitch up front it will eat through the simple sugars that sacch normally takes care of and then go dormant. It may slowly get through the long chain sugars but if you keg it wont be an issue.

 

[J343MY]

2 weeks??? How? But I thought... Don't these bugs take a long time? Shortest I've heard was 3 months!

It was a pretty simple beer. base malt, rye, oats, and raw wheat. 1.046 to 1.008 in less than a week. Given more time it will drop a few more points. I definitely wouldn't bottle at that point. Obviously you don't get much in the way of brett character or anything more than light tartness. Although Most people were surprised at the flavours present given it was turned around in only 2 weeks.

 

[rupert130]

I brought a sample to my yeast guy, and he confirmed there was lacto and a lot of pedio present.

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a good amount of time before bottling. The saison yeast fermented it down to 1.004 SG though.

 

[rupert130]

I would suggest pitching an under attenuating English strain, or a Belgian strain that doesn't finish too dry. Maybe wlp550 or wlp565. Pitch dregs or CS starter at the same time. You should get the best results this way, also likely to get more interesting and complex flavors.

Safbrew T-58 is a great Belgian strain that doesn't finish dry. In my experience, I get about 70-75% AA with that strain. Classic Belgian flavors and aromas as well.

 

[TastyAdventure]

Well I just realized the wort I pitched these built up dregs into has 25 IBUs. Am I screwed??

 

[tagz]

I'm pretty sure they have Pedio. You should be fine but I don't know for a fact.

 

[rupert130]

It's ALIVE!!! Two weeks after pitching the dregs, there is something going on in there. Is it the start of a pellicle? Brett yeast rafts? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[foltster]

I put 120 ml of 1.020 wort on top of 100ml of surette + dregs still in the bottle last night. Swirling it up seems to produce some bubbles. Excited to try these dregs. Anyone have other good under 2 month results from these dregs. Or other results?


Can I assume there is not sach in these dregs?

 

[sweetcell]

Can I assume there is not sach in these dregs?

yes, very safe assumption.

 

[TastyAdventure]

I'm pretty sure they have Pedio. You should be fine but I don't know for a fact.

Pedio can survive IBUs? Is there a limit to how high they can survive?
Also, would the lacto be dead now, or just dormant?

 

[youreanimpulse]

Lacto would possibly be dormant if IBUs kept it from souring. I'm thinking of Jolly Pumpkin dregs I pitched from a very not sour (higher IBU) beer that turned my Brett culture into a super hop resistant sour culture. Like 35 IBUs and a huge hop stand and still sours.

 

[rupert130]

Check it out! It's a thin bubbly pellicle on my saison from the Vieille dregs. I know it's not the greatest picture, but you get the idea.

View attachment 1436738576588.jpg

 

[505-Brewer]

From personal experience, I can tell you that Crooked Stave dregs are very viable. I believe they are all force carbed, so you wont be getting any sacch or wine/champagne yeast in there like most viable commercial brett/sour dregs. As far as I know, ALL Crooked Stave beers should have viable brett/bugs in them.

Like others have said, probably just not enough time. Also, dont expect to see a huge krausen, if at all, especially on such a small scale. I have pitched multiple CS bottles of dregs into a 1 gallon jug of wort and didnt see any airlock or krausen activity, but the final beer turned out great! Just have faith that Chad's beasts are strong and be patient with them. Crooked Stave dregs might be my favorite to work with. O, and the beers arent half bad either.

Cheers and good luck!

This is my experience. Collected 6-8 bottle dregs. Pitched 1/2 qt 1.040 no aeration and used airlock. Took 3 days then blammo. Third step up last night now have a lot of "yeast" sediment and airlock activity. It was mix of Brett and Brett/Sour beers. At second starter growth pH was 3.33 nice clean with fruity Brett. Pitching it this weekend into what will be a tart/sour? Brett saison. Other half with be lacto from grain.

 

[rupert130]

A better view of the CS Vieille dregs pellicle

View attachment 1439180352795.jpg

 

[bovineblitz]

Lacto would possibly be dormant if IBUs kept it from souring. I'm thinking of Jolly Pumpkin dregs I pitched from a very not sour (higher IBU) beer that turned my Brett culture into a super hop resistant sour culture. Like 35 IBUs and a huge hop stand and still sours.

That's probably pedio rather than lacto.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Could be, but I've always heard it's lacto in JP. Also Cascade is similar in hop tolerance and it's definitely not pedio.

 

[bovineblitz]

Could be, but I've always heard it's lacto in JP. Also Cascade is similar in hop tolerance and it's definitely not pedio.

Yeah, but JP tastes very deep and complex while Cascade has a simpler more one-note sour character. Given that JP is wild-inoculated and Cascade carefully controls their microbes, I would imagine that pedio is involved. Though, JP dregs sour very quickly, which raises a little doubt in my mind - but I still can't imagine that most of the lactic acid comes from lacto.

 

[rupert130]

So my saison with Vieille dregs is tasting pleasantly sour and delicious. The gravity is stable, so I will probably bottle soon at 2.8 or 2.9 vols just in case.

 

[rupert130]

Update: Just bottled the sour saison with CS Vieille dregs. It has assertive tartness that doesn't linger and a very lemon-lime flavor and aroma.

 

[505-Brewer]

This is my experience. Collected 6-8 bottle dregs. Pitched 1/2 qt 1.040 no aeration and used airlock. Took 3 days then blammo. Third step up last night now have a lot of "yeast" sediment and airlock activity. It was mix of Brett and Brett/Sour beers. At second starter growth pH was 3.33 nice clean with fruity Brett. Pitching it this weekend into what will be a tart/sour? Brett saison. Other half with be lacto from grain.

Beer came out awesome - very sour. Tasting side by side with Progenitor you could tell they were the same bugs - only real difference was my lack of oak tannins and a different dry hop.

 

[505-Brewer]

Have a starter from CS (combined Vielle x 2 and Wild Sage Saison x 1). Want to use it for my "brett drie equivalent" in TMF's 'Merica Saison. Any issues with pedio making this thing ropey? I'm thinking the beer will ferment within a week, dry hop then keg condition. Need to serve it 2nd week in May. I do have commercial brett drie vial I could pitch instead. Thoughts?