Victoria mill or roller mill

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azazel1024

azazel1024

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So my wife has been abducted and replaced with a superior model while she was on vacation. I bring up how I'd like to get a mill and buy grain in bulk, because big savings (ignore the fact that it means I can brew more because I have stuff all the time, there for not need to run to LHBS every single time I want to brew). She actually said, "well that makes sense". I then said, "my only concern is I don't want to buy a cheap mill that I am going to regret and going to want to get a nicer one 6 months later".

"Okay honey. Even if it is more expensive, buy what makes sense".

The heck??????

Anyway, despite her buy in, I am trying to do this on a budget. I hear very mixed things. I hear some people love victoria mills and some people loath them.

I do brew in a bag exclusively and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I am eyeing up the victoria mill that morebeer.com has. It seems like it has a shield over it to keep grain from spraying every where and a decent sized hopper (1lb) and I'd imagine I could modify the hopper to hold more.

My usual batch is around a 2.75G batch with the occasional 4-5G batch. So on average, I am grinding only 4-6lbs and occasionally I am grinding 8-12lbs of grain. I've read a review or two of the mill that morebeer.com carries as well as a few other corona mill reviews where its about 2 minutes per pound by hand.

I also see that replacing the handle with a drill drive is "not recommended". Any particular reason why there? Does the style lead to crusher binding or something if it is spun too fast?

Anyone have experience or suggestions here? Even if it is a bit more work, I don't mind it, but I don't necessarily want to be spending 20 minutes grinding 10lbs of grain when a nicer mill that might be <$100 more is going to do it in 2 minutes or something. At least as important is durability and mess made. I can fashion up a shield to direct everything down in to a bucket easily enough, but if a more expensive mill is going to be a lot easier to work with, less maintenance I'd rather just spend a bit more.
 
If you want to do in right and your wife is on board, I'd just go the roller mill route. I think you'll be happier in the long run. Roller mills are fairly easy to power and they crack the grain leaving the husks much more intact compared to the shredding action of the Corona and Victoria style mills. From morebeers site, "While this mill could be used by all-grain brewers, who mill 10 to 15 pounds of grain per batch, it is not ideal for that purpose."
 
What about for other uses, like actually making whole grain flour? My wife is thinking that this could be somewhat dual purpose at some point (possible we might start growing some corn, and making corn flour would be nice if we did).

Would corona or victoria style mill work better for actual flour making over a roller mill?

Also, does it matter since I do BiaB if the husks are torn versus cracked? I have heard that corona/victoria style mills typically have better efficiencies than roller mills.

Thanks!
 
Victoria mills are corn flour mills by design. It'll make a great dual purpose mill if that's what you're after.
 
My $24 corona mounted in a homer bucket powered by a harbor freight drill and using an old arrowhead water bottle as a hopper has been great.

Depends on your preferences though. I enjoyed the 20-30 minutes it took me to put it all together and every time I grind a batch of grain I like the fact that I'm using a DIY contraption that I assembled myself.

There are a couple niggling annoyances that I might not have with a nice roller mill station but over all I'm quite satisfied. The shredded husks are just fine for BIAB. Especially if you use one of wilserbrewer's bags.
 
azazel1024 said:
Anyone have experience or suggestions here? Even if it is a bit more work, I don't mind it, but I don't necessarily want to be spending 20 minutes grinding 10lbs of grain when a nicer mill that might be <$100 more is going to do it in 2 minutes or something. At least as important is durability and mess made. I can fashion up a shield to direct everything down in to a bucket easily enough, but if a more expensive mill is going to be a lot easier to work with, less maintenance I'd rather just spend a bit more.
Click to expand...

I used a Victoria mill for a couple of years and then moved on to a $250 Monster Mill 2 Pro, so I have experience with both types.

You're doing BIAB with a relatively small grain bill, so I think that the Victoria-type mills would suit you just fine. The $50 investment wouldn't be the end of the world if after using it for a year or two you wonder how the other side lives and upgrade to a roller mill.

Victoria-type mills work relatively fast if you hook it up to a drill. Yes, I definitely recommend hooking it up to a drill and using a corded drill for the operation. With even a moderate RPM, you can grind a pound or two per minute. Find a hex bolt with the same threading as the handle bolt and just stick that sucker in the end and then get a hex socket for the end of your drill and you're golden. There is a significant amount of fiddling around with the mill when you get it to get it to crush the way you want it to and to give you a reasonable amount of consistency and there are threads on here that detail the process of adding washers to the spacing bolts and replacing the cotter pin with a bolt and so forth.

As for a bigger grain hopper, just get a plastic 6g water bottle from the supermarket and cut the bottom off of it and place that on top of the existing grain hopper. Bam! 25-pound grain hopper for about six bucks and no fabrication time.

I moved on to the much more expensive mill because I was getting an inconsistent mash efficiency and I wanted to see if a roller mill would fix that. So far, no, it hasn't given me the rock-solid mash efficiency I was looking for. I'm thinking mash pH is messing me up more than the mill is. But I love my new mill. It gives me a lot better (average) efficiency than the old one did and it grinds a heck of a lot faster. But I have 30-pound grain bills on occasion so a faster mill is more important to me than your situation.
 
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azazel1024 said:
What about for other uses, like actually making whole grain flour? My wife is thinking that this could be somewhat dual purpose at some point (possible we might start growing some corn, and making corn flour would be nice if we did).

Would corona or victoria style mill work better for actual flour making over a roller mill?

Also, does it matter since I do BiaB if the husks are torn versus cracked? I have heard that corona/victoria style mills typically have better efficiencies than roller mills.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You certainly could use it for milling flour and also milling for brewing, but getting the mill set up juuuust right for brewing and then going back and forth between flour and beer grist would be a real hassle.

Typically, roller mills have better efficiencies.
 
I'm going to bite the bullet in a couple of months and spring for a grain mill. I can't afford most of the ultimate homebrewer preferred options. At this moment I am pretty convinced from everything that I have read that the Cereal Killer roller mill from Adventures in Homebrewing for $99 shipped will be my first grain mill. No idea how it does for flour though.

Just my two bits.
 
I have both a Victoria and a monstermill. The Victoria did improve efficiency but I found my self adding a lot of rice hull for fear of a stuck sparge. Not to mention the small hopper and the extra effort. They're really for grinding flour and not for crushing grain....they simply don't crush.

I'd go roller mill even if you get the cheapest one. My monstermill is fantastic and the hopper holds a big load of grain.
 
The Cereal Killer is probably a good choice for the price........ I have a BC Barley Crusher, which from appearances in the photo looks like it is almost identical. A drive roller, and the other roller is driven by the grain the drive roller pulls through. Get comfortable with it.... You will occasionally have to dismantle it....not very many pieces, clean it up, and lube the bushings with a drop of veg oil. In over 60 brews, I've had mine apart twice........... I consider that acceptable. In my opinion it's silly to power a mill for the small amounts of grain you are crushing unless you are old and arthritic......... or kinda whimpy ;-) ......... I'm both of those things, but I still find I have no difficulty crushing 6 or 7 pounds of grain in just a few minutes .

A roll type mill will NOT make flour, but it will crush grain nicely for things like cracked grain breads, etc, and actually with a double crush, with the rolls set really close on the second pass, the product approaches course flour or cornmeal.

If your "new improved model" wife wants to make flour........... the corona mill is probably for you.

H.W.
 
Okay, so I ordered a Corona mill. I figure for $22, the worst that happens is it ends up being used as a back-up in case a future roller mill "goes bust".

Now I am in the process of figuring out all of the stuff I need to buy that I never considered for milling my own and bulk grain. Like buckets, buckets and more buckets. This morning I realized I don't have a workable scale or scoop, so those got ordered.

I am also revising downward what I am going to try to have "on-hand" for awhile. I had been thinking of getting 5#s of each of the Crystals, roasted barley, chocolate, coffee, and a few other malts, plus 55# bags of 2-row, wheat, pilsner, Vienna and 10# of a couple of others, like Munich.

My coworker and fellow brewer dispelled the "compact" nature of a 55# bag, that it'll likely overflow a pair of 5-gallon homer buckets. I can store a fair amount, but I don't think I can store 8+ buckets for base malt and several more for specialty malts. At least not anytime super soon.

So I am probably just going to try to get 55# bags of 2-row and wheat for now. Later this summer maybe vienna as I won't be doing much german style till August or so (Oktoberfests!!!) and I might only get 10# of Pilsner for now. Probably cut down on how many speciality grains I get in 5# measures for right now too.

Work from there and see just how bad my storage situation is with ~150lbs of grain stored and see if I can actually manage to go with a couple more bags of base.
 
Those 55# bags have a plastic liner bag inside...I just leave it in there. Of course I go through it in less than a month but it seems fine.
 
normonster said:
Those 55# bags have a plastic liner bag inside...I just leave it in there. Of course I go through it in less than a month but it seems fine.
Click to expand...

:eek:

No way I could go through grain that fast. I am not sure whether to envy you or be scared for your wallet :-D

At a guess, if I were to go in on 4 bags of base malt and 5# lots of maybe a dozen specialty malts, that would likely cover 95% of my grain needs and the base malts would likely cover me for a year and the specialty malts for 2-3 years.

So I need something that should keep it relatively fresh for at least 12 months, better yet 24-36 months.
 
Staestc said:
I'm going to bite the bullet in a couple of months and spring for a grain mill. I can't afford most of the ultimate homebrewer preferred options. At this moment I am pretty convinced from everything that I have read that the Cereal Killer roller mill from Adventures in Homebrewing for $99 shipped will be my first grain mill. No idea how it does for flour though.

Just my two bits.
Click to expand...

The Cereal Killer is the bomb, I love that mill. If you set it real tight you will get a lot of flour from your base malts, but I wouldn't expect to use it for actual flour production.
 
azazel1024 said:
Okay, so I ordered a Corona mill. I figure for $22, the worst that happens is it ends up being used as a back-up in case a future roller mill "goes bust".

Now I am in the process of figuring out all of the stuff I need to buy that I never considered for milling my own and bulk grain. Like buckets, buckets and more buckets. This morning I realized I don't have a workable scale or scoop, so those got ordered.

I am also revising downward what I am going to try to have "on-hand" for awhile. I had been thinking of getting 5#s of each of the Crystals, roasted barley, chocolate, coffee, and a few other malts, plus 55# bags of 2-row, wheat, pilsner, Vienna and 10# of a couple of others, like Munich.

My coworker and fellow brewer dispelled the "compact" nature of a 55# bag, that it'll likely overflow a pair of 5-gallon homer buckets. I can store a fair amount, but I don't think I can store 8+ buckets for base malt and several more for specialty malts. At least not anytime super soon.

So I am probably just going to try to get 55# bags of 2-row and wheat for now. Later this summer maybe vienna as I won't be doing much german style till August or so (Oktoberfests!!!) and I might only get 10# of Pilsner for now. Probably cut down on how many speciality grains I get in 5# measures for right now too.

Work from there and see just how bad my storage situation is with ~150lbs of grain stored and see if I can actually manage to go with a couple more bags of base.
Click to expand...


Just remember: the darker the malt, the longer the shelf life. The inverse is true too. As for what to store it in, Petco has some awesome bigass dog food containers that work great for grain, and they can hold a whole 55 lbs. If you are going to leave it in the bag make sure to keep it off the floor to protect it from moisture, critters, and bugs. 8 gallon fermenting buckets work well too but they only hold about 45-50 lbs FWIW.
 
I got the Barley Crusher (Roll Crusher) and it is awesome! i personally think it was worth every penny and you don't need to modify anything to have it work with your brewing size.
 
I have both a barley crusher and a corona mill. I use the barley crusher for just about everything, but use the corona for wheat and corn. The corona is easier to adjust on the fly than the barley crusher, so I never touch the settings on the barley crusher.
 
azazel1024 said:
:eek:



No way I could go through grain that fast. I am not sure whether to envy you or be scared for your wallet :-D



At a guess, if I were to go in on 4 bags of base malt and 5# lots of maybe a dozen specialty malts, that would likely cover 95% of my grain needs and the base malts would likely cover me for a year and the specialty malts for 2-3 years.



So I need something that should keep it relatively fresh for at least 12 months, better yet 24-36 months.
Click to expand...


Truth is I use 2row exclusively as my base and only buy that one type in bulk so that's why I burn through it so quick....pretty much all APA, IPA and cream ales is what I brew. A 55er of 60L or Carapils would last a lot longer....lol. Haven't gone there yet.
 
Ok thanks, just thought I would mention the lengthy "ugly junk" corona mill thread in the event the OP was not familiar with it.

As far as making flour, the Corona mill is a corn grinder, used the world over for making corn meal, not flour. A flour mill uses stone wheels, not a burr plate like the corona. I believe some corona style mills have a stone grinding surface, but that is the exception.
 
normonster said:
Truth is I use 2row exclusively as my base and only buy that one type in bulk so that's why I burn through it so quick....pretty much all APA, IPA and cream ales is what I brew. A 55er of 60L or Carapils would last a lot longer....lol. Haven't gone there yet.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I am brewing all types these days. From Belgian Wits, to Abbeys, IPA, Dopplebocks, Pilsners, Stouts, Berliner Weisse, et al.

I may eventually settle down to just a handful of styles that I brew again and again, but knowing me, it'll be a few years yet before that happens.

Sudbuddy, thanks for the recommendations. I was just talking to my coworker and he busted my bubble on storage too. I was hoping a 5-gallon bucket would hold an entire 50/55# bag...for some silly reason. Looks like I'll need at least two.

I am thinking I may just stick with 2-Row/Pearl and Wheat as my bulk for the moment and may expand to Pilsner and Vienna later this summer. Maybe. Really what I need is to convert my entire basement in to a brewery and warehousing.

But I like my marriage, so I doubt that'll ever happen.

I did get a promise that once we put an addition on our house and we relocate out laundry, I could convert the existing basement laundry room (about 80sq-ft) in to a brewing room (yay electric brewery!). It is conveniently next to my basement storage room where I store all of my equipment right now as well as have my mini-fridge fermenters.
 
azazel1024 said:
My coworker and fellow brewer dispelled the "compact" nature of a 55# bag, that it'll likely overflow a pair of 5-gallon homer buckets. I can store a fair amount, but I don't think I can store 8+ buckets for base malt and several more for specialty malts. At least not anytime super soon.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure just how much a Homer bucket will actually hold, but I bought a couple and shelled out the extra for the Gamma Seal Lids they sell. The lids are just awesome! I'm using them to store all my little bags of leftovers at the moment. Not sure what I will use when I get a mill and bulk base malt, but I really love the Gamma lids.
 
According to my coworker he has is 55# bags split between 5-gallon homer buckets and 7-gallon fermentation buckets and he claims one 55# bag will just about fill a 5-gallon and a 7-gallon. So I figure it is likely that I'll "spill over" a pair of 5-gallon buckets for each 55# bag. My semi-solution that isn't, is probably leave the bag sealed until I first need to use some of it. That will hopefully "use enough" that I'll be able to fit the left over in two 5-gallon buckets. If not, I'll probably have at least a couple of 2-gallon buckets hanging around, that or I can always bag up the bit of left over. I doubt it'll go bad if it is sitting in a closed up bag for a few weeks. I am more worried about the parts that might take 12-18 months to use, not the first parts that will get used within a few weeks of getting a bag.

Though, also why I am tempted to not get a 55# bag of Pilsner at all. I use it, but I don't tend to make pilsners much (1 so far) or in large quantities (2.75G batch, which I'll probably make again, as a 2.75G batch). Otherwise I am generally only using 1-4lbs in something. So it may make sense to only buy in 10# quantities for Pilsner. Vienna and 2-row though, I use staggering quantities (I consider it staggering). Wheat gets a lot of use too. half a pound or a pound in most recipes and of course Wheat/Wits use a lot more than that. I don't use nearly as much Wheat as Vienna or 2-row, but I'd bet I use at least 30lbs a year. Pilsner I am probably on track to use 15lbs a year. 2-row I'd guestimate I use 60lbs a year and Vienna probably 40lbs a year.

Especially if I can get the stuff a lot cheaper, I'll probably brew a bit more (or at least larger batches) as well as brew some heavier/more exotic stuff. I mean, hey, if the barley is 1/2 the price of the per pound stuff, makes it a lot easier to justify just throwing 15lbs of 2-row in a RIS or DIPA.
 
These are the bucket lids I'm talking about. If you have not seen them check them out at Home Depot next time you are there. I just think they are cool, and they are completely air/water tight.

Gamma Lid 1.jpg


Gamma Lid 2.JPG
 
azazel1024 said:
According to my coworker he has is 55# bags split between 5-gallon homer buckets and 7-gallon fermentation buckets and he claims one 55# bag will just about fill a 5-gallon and a 7-gallon.
Click to expand...

Just don't open the bags until you use some of the grain for a batch and then you won't need anything but two five-gallon buckets.
 
I think the storage environment is important. I store my sacks upstairs in my laundry room closet, as it is not nearly as humid as my basement. I just roll the grain sack closed and don't bother storing in buckets. In a cool and dry environment, the grain lasts quite a long time. Say a year. Barley is an annual crop, and has been stored without issue for centuries....cool and dry is the key, a damp basement not so much, put the root vegetables in the basement...
 
wilserbrewer said:
Ok thanks, just thought I would mention the lengthy "ugly junk" corona mill thread in the event the OP was not familiar with it.

As far as making flour, the Corona mill is a corn grinder, used the world over for making corn meal, not flour. A flour mill uses stone wheels, not a burr plate like the corona. I believe some corona style mills have a stone grinding surface, but that is the exception.
Click to expand...

I do appreciate it, because I hadn't seen it before. Lots of great ideas. Hitting the "personal dwelling warehouse" to pick up a couple more homer buckets to make a nice bucket-in-bucket corona mill setup (2 more because I need one for storing some of the grain I just bought and 2 to build the thing and I only have 1 sitting unused at home).

Also, at least reading through 50 odd pages of that thread, there was only a little bit of real corona vs roller mill. Mostly just dicussions of the pros of corona mills as well as great ideas and crazy ugly (and sadly one or two attractive) builds.
 
wilserbrewer said:
I think the storage environment is important. I store my sacks upstairs in my laundry room closet, as it is not nearly as humid as my basement. I just roll the grain sack closed and don't bother storing in buckets. In a cool and dry environment, the grain lasts quite a long time. Say a year. Barley is an annual crop, and has been stored without issue for centuries....cool and dry is the key, a damp basement not so much, put the root vegetables in the basement...
Click to expand...

My basement is dehumidified below the humidity level of my upstairs from mid May until mid October. There after, the "heating season" keeps the whole house low in humidity.

About 45% humidity in the basement during the warmer months and around 40% in the winter time. My upstairs ranges from 50-65% in the summer (worse if a damp day and the windows are open) and 35-40% in the winter time.

I'll probably be storing the grain in buckets right next to where my storage room dehumidifier sits relatively near my furnace (I will NOT be milling grains near my furnace. I am dumb, but generally not terminally so).
 
After doing lots of all grain, I decided to try BIAB...my cheap Corona mill is perfect for that. If you decide to go that route I have pics of my set-up and it works perfectly with no dust or waste.
Bob
 
A word of caution: I bought a BarleyCrusher, and it was a great value for the money. I've put over 1,000 lbs of grain through it in almost 100 batches of beer. But recently, it's started acting up. The rollers are stubborn about "grabbing" grain from the hopper and pulling it through. It seems that the knurling on the rollers has dulled to the point where it can no longer get a grip on the grain. My last brew day with it was very frustrating. The brew day after that, I borrowed a friend's mill. I'm picking up my new MonsterMill this weekend.
 
So of course I don't have any pictures, but I finally unboxed the corona mill (I have no idea, but I always type carona and have to delete and retype. Maybe I have something again corona?). Heavy duty. I can see why they are so cheap though. The lost sand casting marks are very evident over it.

Cheap doesn't mean crap though. Mine seems to have just the slightest wobble in the plates when milling, but it does do an excellent job. A washer on each side spaced it perfectly and I am getting a nice fine crush without shredding the husks in to tiny pieces. It took about 3/4# of 2-row* through the mill and 5 or 6 minutes to get it adjusted "perfectly". Maybe an hour to put together the bucket-in-bucket setup that I saw a lot of other people doing.

I think, at least for the foreseeable future, I'll do all my crushing by hand**. Just feels almost sexy turning that thing and crushing up the grain. I am so excited to have a working mill (and that there was "some assembly/bodging required") out of all proportion to the actual results.

Now I just need to get more bulk grain (only have 10# 2-row, 5# 90L and 5# coffee malt to test the mill and for a Mild recipe I am making during big brew next month).

*I'll admit, I had it dialed in within 1/2#, but it just was so much fun I ground up the rest of what I had put in the hopper.

**Most of my batches are in the 2.75G range with a few up to 5.5G, but most of the bigger brews are relatively low gravity. So taking 15-20 minutes to grind up 10# of malt isn't that big a deal for me most of the time. Good exercise too. I reserve the right to be a hypocrit and hook my drill up at any point however ;)
 
Dude...lol at crushing hundreds of pounds of grain by hand. That approach won't last long and like me you'll have a used corona for sale.
 
normonster said:
Dude...lol at crushing hundreds of pounds of grain by hand. That approach won't last long and like me you'll have a used corona for sale.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Oh, I might go to drill drive for it or get a roller mill, but considering how cheap it was, seems like at a minimum, an excellent backup for another mill.

I've been reading too many "horror stories" on here of mills that stop grabbing grain and that sort of thing. I don't necessarily want to be in a position where the only way I can do my brew day is dissassembling my mill, mailing parts back to a company and waiting days/weeks, etc.

Even if it is only something that "happens" every couple/few years. Never hurts to have a backup plan.
 
Like having a skateboard as a back up plan for your car. No comparison. Sorry. They suck for milling grain for brewing. Cheap does indeed mean crap.
 
Ok..well, I hated mine and can't even get $20 for it. It is basically a little piece of trash I can't throw away. My two pesos only. &#128513;
 

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