VERY slow co2 leak

[Cheesy_Goodness]

I'm at my wits end here. I've got a co2 leak...somewhere. No idea where it is though.

I knew I had a problem so last weekend I took out all my kegs and replaced a few bad poppets and all of the o-rings, lubed up for good measure. Pressure tested them all with the starsan water test and everything came back clean.

I thought that was going to be the end of it but the next day when I went to check on everything there was a faint but still very present co2 smell/nose-burning sensation when I opened up the kegerator. Well I know my kegs are good because I JUST checked them so it has to be before it even gets to the keg. Surely.

My keg is outside of the keezer so disconnected everything and took all of my tubing/disconnects/manifolds out of the kegerator and dunked it in a bucket of soapy water. Turned on the gas at serving pressure and...nothing. Not a single bubble. So I took everything out of the water and let it dry for a day or two before putting everything back together and going back to the drawing board. I kept everything hooked up to the tank but turned the gas off. That was on Sunday.

I checked it on Monday (yesterday), still holding pressure, no change on any of the dials. I checked it Tuesday (today) and wouldn't you know it, all of my gauges showed 0!

That tells me I've got a leak in my tubing/manifolds/disconnects somewhere but it's very small. I'm at a loss as to to how to fix it since I can't find the $%^#&%* thing.

My next step is to take everything a part and reassemble but I don't know if that's actually going to fix anything.

Anything in particular I should be looking for when I put it all back together?

 

[bracconiere]

I knew I had a problem

well if you're willing to admit it...they say that's the first step!


have made sure it's not the regulator itself leaking? how old is it? mine usually start leaking after 5 years.....

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

well if you're willing to admit it...they say that's the first step!


have made sure it's not the regulator itself leaking? how old is it? mine usually start leaking after 5 years.....

Dang my first mistake was putting it in print haha

I'm pretty sure it isn't the regulator but I'll check again. I keep the tank outside of the kegerator so if it was leaking the gas wouldn't be detected the kegerator.
Knowing my luck I could have two leaks though

 

[bracconiere]

do your QDs have flare nuts? maybe a loose one? i'm just going to run down everything i'd start checking till we get you 'green' don't want any unnecessary co2 emissions......

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Most of them do, there may be a few that don't.
What gets me is there were no bubbles to be seen when I dunked it all in a bucket of soapy water.
I may try to up the PSI this evening and see if that makes anything more obvious...

 

[bracconiere]

Most of them do, there may be a few that don't.
What gets me is there were no bubbles to be seen when I dunked it all in a bucket of soapy water.
I may try to up the PSI this evening and see if that makes anything more obvious...

i'm not a bubble believer...i've had many a leak, with no bubbles.....loose keg posts? have you deep cleaned them recently or something?

edit: nevermind, had to go back and read the OP again....


tank washer?

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

i'm not a bubble believer...i've had many a leak, with no bubbles.....loose keg posts? have you deep cleaned them recently or something?

edit: nevermind, had to go back and read the OP again....


tank washer?

Well it could be because I don't know that I've ever looked at my tank washer haha. Are you talking about the washer in the regulator or have I been neglecting my tank some other way?

Also if you don't mind me asking how do you find a leak if you don't rely on the bubble method?
Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Henbrew]

Might need to try dunking the equipment again but try moving the tubing while submerged to see if any leaks appear. Also, try increasing/decreasing pressure while submerged to see if any intermittent leaks are present. Leaks are a PITA to find sometimes.

 

[bracconiere]

Well it could be because I don't know that I've ever looked at my tank washer haha. Are you talking about the washer in the regulator or have I been neglecting my tank some other way?

Also if you don't mind me asking how do you find a leak if you don't rely on the bubble method?
Thanks for taking the time.

the tank washer is what seals the regulator to the co2 tank....they need to be swapped ever couple fills.


and not using the in my experience very unreliable bubbles...i just start shooting at the system with a shot gun....disconnect A keg, maybe all kegs, shut off the kegs, shut the tank...(usually i start with shutting off the tank honestly...figure less loss that way) i keep my co2 cylinder on a scale so i notice a leak pretty quick.....


that gives me another thought...is the regulator tight enough to the tank?

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Might need to try dunking the equipment again but try moving the tubing while submerged to see if any leaks appear. Also, try increasing/decreasing pressure while submerged to see if any intermittent leaks are present. Leaks are a PITA to find sometimes.

I'm thinking that's going to be the ticket. Thanks!

the tank washer is what seals the regulator to the co2 tank....they need to be swapped ever couple fills.


and not using the in my experience very unreliable bubbles...i just start shooting at the system with a shot gun....disconnect A keg, maybe all kegs, shut off the kegs, shut the tank...(usually i start with shutting off the tank honestly...figure less loss that way) i keep my co2 cylinder on a scale so i notice a leak pretty quick.....


that gives me another thought...is the regulator tight enough to the tank?

I don't think the regulator is the issue since I smelled/burned the inside of my nose from the inside of the kegerator and I keep my tank on the outside. Still worth a look though, and I will need to replace that washer soon.

 

[PCABrewing]

I don't think the regulator is the issue since I smelled/burned the inside of my nose from the inside of the kegerator and I keep my tank on the outside.

Well doesn't that really narrow it down to at least a leak in the hose or fittings that reside inside?

It seems pretty unlikely that the gas leaked outside the box then sneaked its way into the box.
That doesn't rule out an external leak as well but pretty sure it confirms a leak inside at least.

 

[bracconiere]

Well doesn't that really narrow it down to at least a leak in the hose or fittings that reside inside?

honestly, for some reason this thread has been interesting, i honestly didn't know you COULD smell co2? the gauge dropping is all i smelt......

 

[PCABrewing]

honestly, for some reason this thread has been interesting, i honestly didn't know you COULD smell co2? the gauge dropping is all i smelt......

I don't think you actually smell it, rather your nose detects it as slightly acidic (CO2 reacts with moisture in your nose to form Carbonic acid) and that's why people report "the burn" when they smell it.

 

[DuncB]

@bracconiere
Best way to get a really good whiff of CO2 is when you finish a keg. Vent it and then open it, stick your nose in and sniff. It will make your eyes water, not quite as bad as smelling salts but harsh enough.
@Cheesy_Goodness
What type of tubing, gauge of tube and what connectors do you have for the tube and to the kegs?
You also mention lube which type?

 

[bracconiere]

@bracconiere
Best way to get a really good whiff of CO2 is when you finish a keg. Vent it and then open it, stick your nose in and sniff. It will make your eyes water, not quite as bad as smelling salts but harsh enough.

i got to keg up some beer here soon, going to so do that....but "very small leak"?

 

[DuncB]

i got to keg up some beer here soon, going to so do that....but "very small leak"?

Monday gauge good and tuesday all on zero seems more than a" very small leak" .
I expect that rate could fill a chest freezer up with CO2 displacing most of the air and you'd smell that.

 

[scrap iron]

I just recently found a very small crack in my old brass manifold. I noticed the regulator gauge going down very slowly but didn't smell any co2 inside the kegerator. I had checked all my QDs and lines and clamps and found nothing. What I found was the small crack on the back side of the one of the trunk fittings. Used a Star-san spray bottle. I ordered a new manifold, aluminum block with flare fittings and changed out everything with Duotight fittings and EVABarrier hoses. No more clamps and the push to fit is sweet. On the cylinder gasket you might check into a leak stopper, it's a permanent O-ring that screws into the tank valve using an Allen wrench. I bought one and have never had problems at the regulator and tank since. You don't have to mess with gaskets either.
Leak Stopper - Permanent O-Ring for CO2 Gas Cylinders: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[Mad Mann]

My last leak had multiple ones. The realtor had a loose PRV and loose gauge... always check even if they are new!

 

[tld6008]

Disconnect everything from Co2 tank then one by one reconnect components and pressure test (just pressure up regulator then turn bottle off) at serving pressure, i.e. regulator test for x hrs, regulator and manifold for x hrs etc. sooner eventually the faulty component will identify itself.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Have any of these valves or something similar? I had one that did not leak at the stops, all the way opened or closed, but if it wasn't quite all the way opened or closed it leaked ever so slightly. Drove me nuts. Seemed like there was no leak, then it seemed I had a leak. Good luck.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. Thankfully I worked from home yesterday so I was able to turn off all of the lines but one, pressurize it to about 50 psi, turn the gas off, walk away and check on it about a half hour later. If that held, on to the next. By process of elimination found the leak.

In my set up I have a 4-way manifold that outputs to another 2-way manifold so I can pressurize 5 kegs at once. Turns out the leak was in the end cap of the 2-way manifold.

I didn't think it was possible but this thing was so small it didn't give out any visible bubbles while under pressure and submerged in soapy water. Once I figured out it had to be the 2-way manifold that was the problem I took it out of the bucket and sprayed it again. There were no visible bubbles but the garage was quiet so I could hear it, but only if I put the thing right up against my ear.

Happily I had a spare 2 way so to get by for the time being I swapped it out and it seems to be holding now.

I swear if I have to find a leak this small again I might just give up drinking all together.

 

[DuncB]

But if it's bigger it'll drive you to drink!

 

[matt_m]

I was close to ordering a sniffer my last leak. Turned out to be an MFL connection that wasn't tight. Iits definitely a frustrating process tracking them down. Apparently it had been going on for a long time before it started leaking enough that my gas use was obviously too high because now that its fixed I'm going on months on the same tank and the gauge hasn't moved.

 

[tld6008]

Very unusual to not see bubbles on a leak you can hear. Soapy water should be spritzed onto the suspected area if submerging no need for soap

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Very unusual to not see bubbles on a leak you can hear. Soapy water should be spritzed onto the suspected area if submerging no need for soap

Y'know the weird thing was I couldn't hear anything until I spritzed it with soapy water. If anything else had been running at the time (hot water heater, freezer, car going by the house etc) I'm not sure I would have picked up on it.

The soapy water dunk was overkill. My thought was if it was leaking enough the gas escaping would create a mound of soapy foam on the surface so even if I wasn't there to witness the gas bubbles coming from the tank, I'd still have good evidence. In hindsight, definitely not necessary.

 

[Mad Mann]

Just to keep this in the thread... just found my leak and surprisingly my new gauge... both dials and the pressure relief valve leaked!

 

[passedpawn]

Just to keep this in the thread... just found my leak and surprisingly my new gauge... both dials and the pressure relief valve leaked!

Brand of faulty regulator?

 

[deuc224]

Honestly I teflon tape ALL things being screwed in. Keg posts, regulator outlet, lube every rubber piece, all keg posts and the keg lid rubber seal, that leaked for me until i started lubing it every single fill.