Using Sourdough starter as yeast. Is it possible?

[NorJerseyHomebro]

Look forward to the tasting notes!

My experience is that the lacto from the sourdough starter will contribute very minimal if any sourness to the beer. I've done two sourdough beers so far and they have been very clean tasting beers with almost zero sourness/tartness. I think it has something to do with the fact that lacto in sourdough starters thrive in a less wet environment. Lower hydrated starts produce more sour. When the starter is introduced to wort I am guessing that the yeast in the starter goes wild and multiplies while the lacto isn't necessarily in the optimum environment to go crazy.

If you created your sourdough starter with brewers yeast then it wouldn't be considered an authentic sourdough starter as brewers yeast isn't a wild yeast. Sourdough is made with wild yeast that are naturally in the air. That's why San Francisco sourdough is different than any other bread, because it's made with a wild yeast culture that's native to that area. Your bread will still likely have some sourness if you make a starter from brewers yeast, however it still isn't the same thing as authentic sourdough bread. Wild yeast is special as during the long fermentation process the yeast is able to break down/neutralize gluten proteins and "unlock" nutrients that commercial/brewers yeast can't do. This is why it's very common for gluten sensitive/intolerant people to be able to eat sourdough bread with no adverse affects (I have many such friends who are able to eat mine), the wild yeast is able to hydrolyze the gluten proteins, essentially rendering what's normally toxic to some people inert. I cannot verify if it works the same way with beer (if you were to ferment a beer with true sourdough yeast). I'd like to verify it with one of my beers but I don't want to spend $80 to get the beer tested by a lab.

So, if you are making a sourdough starter out of brewers yeast and then using that to ferment a beer, then you have essentially just fermented a beer with brewers yeast...not sourdough yeast. I would recommend finding some authentic sourdough starter and trying the experiment again.

My culture started as brewers yeast for sure, but it is definitely not a pure culture any more. The bread had a progression over 2 months from tasting like beer to tasting like sour dough. I have used this starter probably 30 times. So it bares no resemblance to the yeast I started with. That being said that first batch of beer has a definite lacto twang to it and a little acetic acid as well, the acidity I would classify as bracing. Where would I get my sourdough culture tested? I'm so intrigued by this stuff now. 80$$ seems like a bargain.

 

[mwc360]

My culture started as brewers yeast for sure, but it is definitely not a pure culture any more. The bread had a progression over 2 months from tasting like beer to tasting like sour dough. I have used this starter probably 30 times. So it bares no resemblance to the yeast I started with. That being said that first batch of beer has a definite lacto twang to it and a little acetic acid as well, the acidity I would classify as bracing. Where would I get my sourdough culture tested? I'm so intrigued by this stuff now. 80$$ seems like a bargain.

How many hours does it take your dough to double using your starter? You typically have to leave your starter in the open air for a while for wild yeast to find it's way there. You may have acquired something in your starter along the way but I'm not sure how a completely different yeast strain could take over your starter, unless there's some mutation going on (still not real sourdough starter). Not sure where you could get it tested but it sure is possible. I definately don't have 80 to drop on having a beer tested...my wife and I are closing on our first home tomorrow!

 

[SanPancho]

alot of yeast labs do testing. white labs for sure, some of the other US labs, etc.

 

[tobias39]

Look forward to the tasting notes!

My experience is that the lacto from the sourdough starter will contribute very minimal if any sourness to the beer. I've done two sourdough beers so far and they have been very clean tasting beers with almost zero sourness/tartness. I think it has something to do with the fact that lacto in sourdough starters thrive in a less wet environment. Lower hydrated starts produce more sour. When the starter is introduced to wort I am guessing that the yeast in the starter goes wild and multiplies while the lacto isn't necessarily in the optimum environment to go crazy.

If you created your sourdough starter with brewers yeast then it wouldn't be considered an authentic sourdough starter as brewers yeast isn't a wild yeast. Sourdough is made with wild yeast that are naturally in the air. That's why San Francisco sourdough is different than any other bread, because it's made with a wild yeast culture that's native to that area. Your bread will still likely have some sourness if you make a starter from brewers yeast, however it still isn't the same thing as authentic sourdough bread. Wild yeast is special as during the long fermentation process the yeast is able to break down/neutralize gluten proteins and "unlock" nutrients that commercial/brewers yeast can't do. This is why it's very common for gluten sensitive/intolerant people to be able to eat sourdough bread with no adverse affects (I have many such friends who are able to eat mine), the wild yeast is able to hydrolyze the gluten proteins, essentially rendering what's normally toxic to some people inert. I cannot verify if it works the same way with beer (if you were to ferment a beer with true sourdough yeast). I'd like to verify it with one of my beers but I don't want to spend $80 to get the beer tested by a lab.

So, if you are making a sourdough starter out of brewers yeast and then using that to ferment a beer, then you have essentially just fermented a beer with brewers yeast...not sourdough yeast. I would recommend finding some authentic sourdough starter and trying the experiment again.

If he is doing his feedings properly even if he started out with brewer's yeast after 2 months all of that yeast will have died and the wild yeast that is on the flour and in the air would have taken over his starter. Commerical/brewer's yeast cannot survive in the starter.

Also unless you live in the SF area your starter that started off as SF sourdough has evolved with the wild yeast from where you live. This is why sourdoughs from different parts of the country taste different.

if anyone wants to start their own sourdough starter all you need is non-bleached/non-bromated flour and water. you do not need to start a sourdough starter with commercial yeast. search King Arthur's website for "How to make your own sourdough starter". This IMHO was the best resource for starting out.

I do love this thread as I always wondered as I was introduced to sour beers if you could use sourdough starter in the beer.

 

[JonathanOst]

This thread is a bit dead, but I'm bumping it because I plan on trying to brew a kettle sour with my sourdough starter this weekend. My starter was spontaneously cultured in my apartment and has made some pretty solid bread, but I've kept it pretty thin so nothing has been too funky. I'm going to try and dry it out a bit and then try and make a starter with DME. Hopefully I can get some funk from the lacto, but if not then I'll probably just turn it into a hoppy farmhouse.

 

[rondemay]

I'm glad this thread is not dead. I've had a pretty great sourdough starter for a while that I bake with every weekend. After brewing a few good saisons, and currently experimenting with Brett in my newest one, I've been thinking about doing this with a small batch. The bacteria culture seems similar to what is in the Bretts. What really intrigues me is using the yeast to actually ferment my beer without any additional brewers yeast!

 

[rlmiller10]

I have tried this and here is the thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sour-dough-starter-for-yeast.625442/

 

[rlmiller10]

Here is a link to some research done on the yeast and bacteria found in sourdough starters around the country.
http://robdunnlab.com/projects/sourdough/map/

 

[John McElroy]

This seems like a good thread to ask a very similar question. I just inherited a yeast starter from a friend. Originally it came from Wild Concord Grapes. It has been fed with water and AP Flour for 10 years. Would I be able to brew a decent beer with it? I just fed it yesterday and I think I'll have a good amount (definitely above 400grams) within the week...

 

[rlmiller10]

Give it a try. I suspect it will work. Unless you have a genetic analysis done you will know know the strains of yeast and bacteria. So it is hard to guess the exact flavors. but since most starters have a mix of saccharomyces, brett, lacto and other you should be fine. Probably get some esters early and then sour with time. Just be watchful for gushers and possible bottle bombs

 

[couchsending]

Bumping this thread. Just inherited a sourdough starter that’s been going for quite some time and was thinking of adding it to a beer along with some traditional Sacch. A lot of the recipes I see people are making pretty highly hopped wort and using their sourdough starter and saying it turns out pretty clean. Well clearly the lacto is inhibited by all the hops and you’d have to give it a while if there’s pedio to start to get a decent amount of sourness.

Anyone just blended some sourdough culture Into a normal ferment but kept the IBUs really low?