Using pressure to transfer from Carboy?

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bduane

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Anybody have any info on using pressure to transfer from a carboy to a keg?

I'd like to be able to purge the keg of O2 (easy) and seal the carboy and purge it of O2, and attach the two together and apply a few PSI to the carboy to transfer to the keg. This would avoid aeration/infection risk, and i was also thinking i could clean/sanitize/fill sanke kegs without ever taking the spear out.

Anybody have part numbers? Is there a "Cap" for a better bottle with the two ports? Will a racking cane fit into one of the ports snugly to act as the pickup tube? What kind of connectors would be needed to hook up gas to one of these caps?
 
image-1428860668.jpg

I love this method of transfer. It doesn't take anywhere near 14 PSI in my experience unless my regulator isn't accurate. I use a racking cane pushed through one of the nipples on the carboy cap. I have a beer out ball lock connection attached to a hose on the end of the cane and a regulator fitting on the other nipple of the carboy cap. It works great!
 
View attachment 46289

I love this method of transfer. It doesn't take anywhere near 14 PSI in my experience unless my regulator isn't accurate. I use a racking cane pushed through one of the nipples on the carboy cap. I have a beer out ball lock connection attached to a hose on the end of the cane and a regulator fitting on the other nipple of the carboy cap. It works great!

nice! do you use this with a better bottle or glass carboy?
 
nice! do you use this with a better bottle or glass carboy?

Orange cap for Better Bottles, red cap for glass carboys. The orange also works for sanke kegs. I've been using a slight variation on this for anwhile now. I'm taking it another notch by fitting my fermentation kegs (sanke kegs) with gas ball lock posts. I'm working on making a Tri-Clove cap made specifically to do this too. I'll be meeting with a couple of machine shop people (two different shops) either this weekend or before next. I hope to be able to get them to do the machining for me without busting my wallet.
 
Also, does anyone have success cleaning kegs without opening them? If i could clean sanke kegs without opening them, it would be much less hassle than using corny kegs.

I'd like to fill a keg with a hot PBW mixture, let it soak, drain it out, run a couple batches of water through it, then run a little bit of star san into it an shake it up and drain it out. This would clean and sanitize my whole system, assuming I can trust the PBW to do a good enough job!

Anyone clean kegs this way?
 
Glass carboys. This method is real easy on the back though! No lifting to siphon. I did have to put a hose clamp around the nipple with the cane because the cane would tilt and gas would escape. As you can see, the silicone tube is what i used to join the beverage tube to the carboy cap nipples. This is one of the most useful pieces of gear I use. It really doesn't take a lot of pressure to get it going.
 
View attachment 46289

I love this method of transfer. It doesn't take anywhere near 14 PSI in my experience unless my regulator isn't accurate. I use a racking cane pushed through one of the nipples on the carboy cap. I have a beer out ball lock connection attached to a hose on the end of the cane and a regulator fitting on the other nipple of the carboy cap. It works great!

Same setup I have. Orange cap with a racking cane thru the center post and a small band clamp to hold cane at the height I want and to seal it up. A 3/8's gas line slid over the other post (makes a tight fit so no clamp needed. On the other end of the gas line is a Quick connect so it just snaps onto my CO2 system and it's ready. I use a band clamp on the cap to make sure it seals and stays on the carboy also.
 
FSR402 said:
Same setup I have. Orange cap with a racking cane thru the center post and a small band clamp to hold cane at the height I want and to seal it up. A 3/8's gas line slid over the other post (makes a tight fit so no clamp needed. On the other end of the gas line is a Quick connect so it just snaps onto my CO2 system and it's ready. I use a band clamp on the cap to make sure it seals and stays on the carboy also.

I like the quick-disconnect idea and the clamp around the cap. How much pressure does it take for you to transfer?
 
Similar setup except on the gas side I have a spear from a bayonet that I just push into the outlet on the cap and on the other I use a tube without the fitting so I can fill my sample tube first. The spear is a safety valve of sorts if pressure builds up it gets spit out before anything else fails.
 
I like the quick-disconnect idea and the clamp around the cap. How much pressure does it take for you to transfer?

2 - 10 psi depending on how fast I want it to move.

I have 2 CO2 tanks. One is in my kegerator and the other I use for everything else. I have it setup with QC's and everything I do with it has hoses setup with QC's so it's just an unplug and pug in the hose I need. One for pushing carboys, one for carbing thru the out post of a korny (purging too) and one for purging/pushing my conicals.
 
OneHoppyGuy said:
:off:
I tried using pressure once... the cap blew off and sprayed beer all over my SWMBO

In my house, that could be a good thing!
 
Also, does anyone have success cleaning kegs without opening them? If i could clean sanke kegs without opening them, it would be much less hassle than using corny kegs.

I'd like to fill a keg with a hot PBW mixture, let it soak, drain it out, run a couple batches of water through it, then run a little bit of star san into it an shake it up and drain it out. This would clean and sanitize my whole system, assuming I can trust the PBW to do a good enough job!

Anyone clean kegs this way?

I am not sure i would trust it to clean without taking it apart.... but should work assuming you could get all the sanitizer out/ let it dry. I dump the keg when its done sanitizing and i would think you would leave a little in there if you didn't open it that would never evaporate.
 
:off:
I tried using pressure once... the cap blew off and sprayed beer all over my SWMBO

Did you then "dry hop" her??? :eek: :D :ban:

Seriously though, how much pressure did you use to have that happen? I've transferred from glass carboys as well as sanke kegs without issue. Of course, I slowly increase the PSI until it's flowing at the right rate and then not a hair more. Typically, that's 2-4PSI.

Of course, I have been lifting the keg onto a table so far. This time I plan on leaving it on the floor and starting the transfer. Still, I don't expect to need too much more pressure to get the beer to flow...

Oh, and the beer MUST flow... :D
 
I built this gizmo and just tested it today successfully with water:

Beer transfer gizmo 002.jpg

This is primarily intended to transfer using a siphon from a carboy to another carboy, or from a carboy to a keg. It should also work to transfer using pressure, assuming the carboy cap doesn't blow off (I haven't tested this mode). The idea is to keep the beer in the primary carboy and in the secondary carboy under a CO2 blanket, and to conserve CO2 by transferring the CO2 in the pre-purged secondary into the primary carboy headspace as the beer goes from the primary to the secondary.

I used PVC ball valves because they are cheap (about $2.50 each) - they will work fine with low pressure (<5 psi). I used threaded valves and barb connections because I already had some of the parts on-hand and because I didn't want to glue pieces together (worried about the odor of the glue getting into my beer), but you could use non-threaded valves and short pieces of PVC pipe glued together.

The beer is transferred using racking canes inserted into the carboy caps, and connected with a piece of 3/8 inch silicone tubing (easy on and off, no clamps needed, and sanitization by boiling). The apparatus is connected with the CO2 hooked up to the brass flare connector at the left, with CO2 pressure turned all the way down. The carboy cap on the left is placed on the primary carboy which is sitting up on a table and the cap on the right is placed on the secondary carboy (or the tube could be connected to a keg gas disconnect). The sanitized silicone beer transfer line is connected to the secondary racking cane, with the other end initially connected to the 3/8 inch barb fitting on the left end of the assembly, which is used to purge the secondary.

Start with all valves closed.
Turn on the CO2 with 0 pressure
Open the PVC ball valve on the right end to vent the secondary
Open the PVC ball valve at top left to purge the secondary through the racking cane (or purge the keg through the beer out tube)
Turn up the CO2 pressure to the desired level to purge the secondary (I haven't yet determined this value)
After the purge, close the PVC purge valve and the vent valve, and reduce CO2 pressure to 0
Remove the end of the silicone line from the 3/8 barb fitting and place it on the primary racking cane so it can transfer beer from cane to cane or from cane to keg beer out tube
Open the PVC vent valve and the PVC valve at bottom left to allow CO2 to flow into the primary headspace to start the siphon
Turn up the CO2 pressure until you have a good flow and the level in the secondary is high enough to cover the bottom of the cane or beer out tube in the keg
Close the PVC valve at bottom left and the vent valve at the right, and open the middle valve to connect the two headspaces and allow the beer to siphon - the beer into the secondary pushes out an equal volume of CO2 which returns to the primary. When done, close all valves, remove the carboy cap from the secondary and apply airlock, or remove gas and beer disconnects from keg.

To use this as a straight pressure transfer device, just leave the left and right valves open and center valve closed the same as starting the siphon.
 
Update: I used the gizmo to transfer a pale ale from a primary carboy to a secondary carboy for dry-hopping. It worked perfectly! One thing I added to the procedure was that after the transfer, I disconnected the silicone beer transfer hose from the primary racking cane and reconnected it to the purge valve and bubbled some more CO2 up through the beer to further purge the headspace. Then I pulled off the carboy cap and quickly placed a bung with airlock onto the carboy. I used the siphon mode today because I'm almost out of CO2 and that mode uses less CO2. Next week, when I transfer to a keg, I may try transferring under pressure.
 
I was wondering what everyone thought about, connecting the carboy cap (with racking cane) and pinching off the other tube. Charge a corny keg up to... say 5-10 psi, and connect a ball lock to the out and then the other end to the racking cane. Then release pressure from the corny keg. Do you think that would create the negative pressure inside the corny keg to pull the precious, precious beer into the keg.
 
I was wondering what everyone thought about, connecting the carboy cap (with racking cane) and pinching off the other tube. Charge a corny keg up to... say 5-10 psi, and connect a ball lock to the out and then the other end to the racking cane. Then release pressure from the corny keg. Do you think that would create the negative pressure inside the corny keg to pull the precious, precious beer into the keg.

nope. As soon as you hook the ball lock qc on it would allow all the co2 pressure to just push into the carboy. If you had a valve and were to open it at the same time and same rate as the pressure release valve them "maybe" it could work. But doubt it.
 
Applying pressure to a glass carboy just seems like a bad idea to me. Just sayin'...

I use Better Bottles for almost everything - and even with those I always start with the regulator turned all the way down to 0 - increase just enough to start the flow - the pressure hardly even registers on the gauge.
 
Here is a shot of my transfer system in action. I also have a filter set up inline with it. Works awesome.

IMAG0247.jpg
 
IMO/IME, one of the wonderful things about transferring via a CO2 push/pressure is you no longer need to have the source vessel higher than what it's going into. I did my last several transfers all on the floor (both the source and destination were right next to each other, on the ground level). Means no more worrying about stirring up sediment in the source among other things.

IF you already have the source vessel higher than the destination, that's fine. Just saying that you no longer NEED to have that configuration. This also means that the transfer hose can be shorter. With my configuration, since I'm going between ball lock QD posts, the line can be very short (about 2' long).
 
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