Using multiple Brett strains in primary fermentation

[joshrosborne]

From my reading, it seems that Brett, when combined with a Sacch strain, subjugates itself in primary fermentation and then does most of its work after the fact on the residual sugars, dead sacch yeast, and various chemical compounds. In this case, it acts super-attenuative, bringing terminal gravity down to about nothing.

Does this work the same way if one uses no sacch, but several Brett yeast strains? Would one strain take the front seat and do the primary fermentation work, while the other takes a back seat and finish up after the first is done?

I know that a single strain of Brett, when used as the only yeast in primary fermentation, acts a lot like Brett, but how to two strains act in coordination?

 

[aiptasia]

The reason Brett generally takes a backseat role is that it's outcompeted by Sacch. Combining two or more strains of Sacch will produce different flavor characteristics based on each strain's vigor, reproduction rate, and overall dominance of the wort.

I'd predict the same with using two or more strains of Brett. One strain or another will come to dominate the wort to some degree, with the other strain chugging along in a lesser capacity but still remaining active much in the same way. Different organisms also have preferential food sources, and it's likely that the Brett is able to metabolize and feed on the residuals a little easier than Sacch can. In that case, what you have is a dual fermentation occurring at the same time. One species consuming the food source and the other feeding from the by-products and leftovers.

Sake brewing works in this manner with Koji fungus breaking down long chain rice starches into glucose that Sake Sacch can feed on.

 

[joshrosborne]

The reason Brett generally takes a backseat role is that it's outcompeted by Sacch. Combining two or more strains of Sacch will produce different flavor characteristics based on each strain's vigor, reproduction rate, and overall dominance of the wort.

I'd predict the same with using two or more strains of Brett. One strain or another will come to dominate the wort to some degree, with the other strain chugging along in a lesser capacity but still remaining active much in the same way. Different organisms also have preferential food sources, and it's likely that the Brett is able to metabolize and feed on the residuals a little easier than Sacch can. In that case, what you have is a dual fermentation occurring at the same time. One species consuming the food source and the other feeding from the by-products and leftovers.

Sake brewing works in this manner with Koji fungus breaking down long chain rice starches into glucose that Sake Sacch can feed on.

Thanks! Do you expect that using two Brett strains in coordination would lead to extreme attenuation like when combining with Sacch. or the "normal" attenuation you see when using a single Brett strain in primary?

 

[sockmerchant]

No, the superattenuation only seems to occur during mixed fermentation. Even when adding a different brett at secondary I have not had the super high attenuation that I have had when sacc was used in primary.

Actually, even when I have used mixed fermentation with sacc and brett in primary I have only had moderately high (80%) attenuation. I have even added the brett at secondary for this with very little in the way of further fermentation.

 

[sweetcell]

Does this work the same way if one uses no sacch, but several Brett yeast strains? Would one strain take the front seat and do the primary fermentation work, while the other takes a back seat and finish up after the first is done?

the reason why sacc takes over is that it's so much faster than brett. by the time brett gets going and hits its stride, sacc is all done and gone to sleep.

2 bretts together will move at the same slow speed.

brett's funky flavors come from it transforming sacc's byproducts. that's why an all-brett beer is so clean - no sacc waste for it to funkafy.

 

[sockmerchant]

Actually, my brett only beers have finished in much the same time as sacc beers. Maybe a day's different as a maximum to reaching FG

 

[dcp27]

The reason Brett generally takes a backseat role is that it's outcompeted by Sacch. Combining two or more strains of Sacch will produce different flavor characteristics based on each strain's vigor, reproduction rate, and overall dominance of the wort.

I'd predict the same with using two or more strains of Brett. .

i've done multiple brett a few times, it works pretty much exactly like this. some of the time its been dominated by one strain, others its been more of a mix. still acts just like normal brett primary

 

[kaips1]

the reason why sacc takes over is that it's so much faster than brett. by the time brett gets going and hits its stride, sacc is all done and gone to sleep.

2 bretts together will move at the same slow speed.

brett's funky flavors come from it transforming sacc's byproducts. that's why an all-brett beer is so clean - no sacc waste for it to funkafy.

Funk and when and how much is produced is strain dependent, Iris C2 is funky no matter what, sacch or not. it doesnt ferment like a standard primary strain brett or sacch. Mash temps, ingredients, atmospheric exposure, are all things that can affect funk production plus many more.