Using Ice to cool down wort?

[woozy]

Um, so those who take the beer outside to cool... do you only brew in winter? Anyway, not really an option to us coastal Californians.

Walter Whites Batch, was that a *negative* 30?

 

[cheezydemon3]

I've often wondered if the freezing makes the seal on the bucket brittle, but I've never had an infection. I use a lid that has no airlock for the freeze.

Is there a whoosh of air entering the fermenter when you open it? (in which case inside air is entering) or if there isn't a whoosh, then outside air is getting in. Evidently not a problem either way if you have had no issues.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

As to the OP...I doubt there is a quicker way to cool wort down that to add about 1 part water, 2 parts ice and about 7 or 8 TB of plain ol' table salt (stir well). This dramatically makes the ice water colder.
I can cool a boiling pot to 70 degrees in less than 10 minutes.
Cheers.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

I have to disagree with this assertion, as the Blichmann Therminator plate chiller can (with source water at 58 deg. F or below) cool from boiling to 68 deg. F at a rate of two gallons per minute (according to Blichmann's technical specs). A less expensive plate chiller such as a 10-plate Shirron can generally cool 5 gallons from boiling to 68 deg. F in about eight minutes (again, with sufficiently cool counterflow water).

True, plate chillers are quite expensive - even a cheap one is about US$100 - and requires considerable work to keep clean and sanitized, but they do work very quickly.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I have to disagree with this assertion, as the Blichmann Therminator plate chiller can (with source water at 58 deg. F or below) cool from boiling to 68 deg. F at a rate of two gallons per minute (according to Blichmann's technical specs). A less expensive plate chiller such as a 10-plate Shirron can generally cool 5 gallons from boiling to 68 deg. F in about eight minutes (again, with sufficiently cool counterflow water).

True, plate chillers are quite expensive - even a cheap one is about US$100 - and requires considerable work to keep clean and sanitized, but they do work very quickly.

I would put 2 gallons of ice cubes up against that. I'd say 1 minute to cool to 70.(of course you are chilling 3 gallons, your plate is bad ass, I am not questioning that)

 

[Walter_Whites_Batch]

Um, so those who take the beer outside to cool... do you only brew in winter? Anyway, not really an option to us coastal Californians.

Walter Whites Batch, was that a *negative* 30?

yeah, I'm in Canada. but that is -30 Celsius, around a balmy -22F...

I do brew in the summer here too, but that is when I put my 2 gallons of boiled water in my big chest freezer in the basement overnight. It has the same effect.

To answer the other question, I only open it when I am about to pour the 3 gallons of boiling wort into it. I've never listened for anything at that stage, other than the cracking sound the ice makes when it gets hit with the boiling liquid. In my experience, this brings the temp down to pitching range very quickly.

 

[YogiCanucks]

I've been kicking around the idea of freezing a couple bottles of purified bottled water in the freezer the night before. Then pulling them out, cutting away the bottle and tossing in the frozen ice into the wort.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I've been kicking around the idea of freezing a couple bottles of purified bottled water in the freezer the night before. Then pulling them out, cutting away the bottle and tossing in the frozen ice into the wort.

Ice cubes would be more efficient.

The quicker it melts the more efficient the cooling.

 

[Radagascar]

I'm new to homebrewing, but what I tried for my last batch is freezing a gallon of store bought drinking water 1-2 hours before adding the yeast and pouring it in the wort to cool it. Seemed to work alright and I'm *assuming* the store bought drinking water is pure enough to add to the wort without problems.

 

[Brew-Dog]

For extract brewing, what about sanitizing some plastic tupperware (sandwich size), filling them 3/4 full with the water you intend to use for topping up (in my case brita water from tap) and freezing them over night. Then when you have to chill and top up the wort, just open the tupperware and toss the ice blocks in to cool it?

Are there problems with this method? It's the same water you'd use to top up, the inside of the container is sterilized and water isn't exposed to the outside until you toss it in the wort.

 

[woozy]

For extract brewing, what about sanitizing some plastic tupperware (sandwich size), filling them 3/4 full with the water you intend to use for topping up (in my case brita water from tap) and freezing them over night. Then when you have to chill and top up the wort, just open the tupperware and toss the ice blocks in to cool it?

Are there problems with this method? It's the same water you'd use to top up, the inside of the container is sterilized and water isn't exposed to the outside until you toss it in the wort.

Possibly and only possibly, extracting the ice from the bags might be tricky if the ice doesn't want to be co-operative. But you could spritz the frozen bags with sanitizer and toss them in.

If you use ice cubes, boil the water. The boil water sterilizes the tray (and itself but we're assuming the water was fine to begin with). Cover with plastic wrap. The inside of the plastic wrap will be steam sterilized. Freeze.

Freeze one large block. Toss it into the wort the instant you turn of the flame. The how wort will sterilize this one block. But you can't really risk more than one. *maybe* you can risk a bunch of unsterilized ice cubes all tossed in at once. *maybe*

 

[user 144271]

It is simple physics. Nothing will be faster than ice.
1.....Using a wort chiller you must use a liquid WARMER than ice
2.....When you are using a chiller there is NO DIRECT contact with the wort.
Therefore there must be a loss due to imperfect thermal conductivity.
We all know every material has a different TC. Stainless is much less than copper for example.

Lastly a lot of kits need make up water so why not use ice?

It works but you will not convince many here. Of course those are the same guys who used to say YOU MUST SECONDARY your beer and if you don't your an idiot

 

[Brew-Dog]

Possibly and only possibly, extracting the ice from the bags might be tricky if the ice doesn't want to be co-operative. But you could spritz the frozen bags with sanitizer and toss them in.

Sorry, I meant plastic containers to make ice blocks. Ones like this:

 

[user 144271]

I have used those in the past and they work. No I just fuse my automatic ice make in the fridge. The water is filtered and it works great

 

[woozy]

Sorry, I meant plastic containers to make ice blocks. Ones like this:

I've done that my last two or three batches. Cooled down pretty fast but I don't really have a bench press to compare against nor have any of these batches finished bottling. But what *could* go wrong. Water's water.

My last batch I froze *24* pint sized water bottles to cool the outside. What I haven't tried but with definitely try next time is spritzing the water bottles and dumping them *inside*.

It is simple physics. Nothing will be faster than ice.

Well, freeon and dry ice and liquid nitrogen ... but lets stay in the realm of the practical.

But what do those wine chillers use. I was always under the (maybe incorrect) impression is was some low freezing liquid like freeon or amonia. Do they make those extra large for homebrew size. Why not and how expensive would that be? (Utterly out of my price range, of course, but I'm talking theoreticals ant this point.

 

[Eisenhans]

I would be too worried about the Tupperware affecting the flavor of the beer. I'm finding the fastest and most efficient way is by just making small concentrations of wort and sticking it in the ice bath. I got mine from boiling to ~90F last night in less than 7 minutes.

Though I'm curious - for doing quantities of beer exceeding typical batches (like the 5 gallon range), what would be the best way? A wort chiller at that point?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Has anyone ever used dry ice? Seems sanitary, would cool things quickly, and also provide a CO2 purge.

Just wondering...

 

[woozy]

Has anyone ever used dry ice? Seems sanitary, would cool things quickly, and also provide a CO2 purge.

Just wondering...

That *would* be awesome, wouldn't it! Certainly satisfy our mad scientist urges. Where does one get dry ice and how much does it cost.

(Proustian moment: My elementary school had a stream running through its grounds and after lunch the lunch lady used to toss the dry ice that had been used for story those weird orange-juice popsicles into the stream and we kids used to gather and ooh and aah at the resulting bubbling and steaming results.)

====
Oh, you mean *in* the wort, don't you. Well... it'd simply evaporate wouldn't it? So why not?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Actually dry ice isn't the best idea, though with some strobes and techno on the stereo it could make for a pretty interesting brew rave. It apparently takes a lot of dry ice (as it doesn't have nearly the same mass or latent heat that water does) and it is several dollars for a block. Carry on, ice water it is.

 

[Brew-Dog]

I just had a very stupid idea...that might actually work. :cross:

If anyone has ever used a CO2 filled fire extinguisher, they know that the gas is extremely cold. So, here's the idea....secure the lid on your wort that's about to be chilled, make sure it's on tight and spray the crap out of the kettle with the fire extinguisher, forming a layer of dry ice around it. Carbon dioxide freezes at -78.5C (or -109F).

Go to 1:12 of this video to get a better idea:



I'm obviously joking, but it would be funny to see and might actually work...

 

[LowNotes]

It is simple physics. Nothing will be faster than ice.
1.....Using a wort chiller you must use a liquid WARMER than ice
2.....When you are using a chiller there is NO DIRECT contact with the wort.
Therefore there must be a loss due to imperfect thermal conductivity.
We all know every material has a different TC. Stainless is much less than copper for example.

Lastly a lot of kits need make up water so why not use ice?

It works but you will not convince many here. Of course those are the same guys who used to say YOU MUST SECONDARY your beer and if you don't your an idiot

Someone else mentioned exotic things like liquid nitrogen, but there is actually a simple way to get the water colder than ice. If you are pumping water through an IC and you are pumping out of a large bucket of ice water, you can throw some salt into the water and it will lower the freezing point significantly, allowing you to pump salt-water that is colder than ice through your IC.

If you do this, you HAVE to make sure your IC won't leak into the beer though...

 

[cheezydemon3]

But what do those wine chillers use. I was always under the (maybe incorrect) impression is was some low freezing liquid like freeon or amonia. Do they make those extra large for homebrew size. Why not and how expensive would that be? (Utterly out of my price range, of course, but I'm talking theoreticals ant this point.

Just water, maybe with a little salt.

The liquid is kept moving so it doesn't freeze.