Upping efficiency without a mill?

[vance]

I'm stuck using my LHBS' grain mill for the foreseeable future - I don't have space or money for my own, and I move a lot as a college student.

What else can I do to up my efficiency? Currently do full volume mashes in an 11 gallon pot, water volumes done using a mix or BeerSmith and priceless' BIAB calc.

 

[kev211]

Have you asked you LHBS what the gap is set at on their mill? What is your efficiency now and what is your process? Are you stirring?

Most HB stores that Ive been to are super helpful, maybe try explaining to them that you are having efficiency issues and they might take a look at their mill gap or even let you double mill

 

[casualbrewer]

My lhbs will do a double crush for me. Usually worth 5-8% bump. Could do a sparge of sorts? Longer mash?

 

[dmtaylor]

Double crush and sparge.

 

[vance]

Not sure about the gap - My local store is self mill so I always run it through twice. Not sure how to describe my process other than heat up water, add bag and wait. I do stir every 10-15 minutes. I usually set the bag over a separate pot to drain, and then add that drained wort back into my main kettle as my boiling is starting.

@dmtaylor what kind of sparge do you do?

 

[dmtaylor]

@dmtaylor what kind of sparge do you do?

Instead of doing a full mash, save half the mash water and bring to 170 F in a separate pot on your kitchen stove. When you set your bag on a colander or strainer to drain, pour the 170 water through the grain bag. Your efficiency gain will be significant, about 10% or more, just for a few more minutes of effort.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sorry to not pick, for optimum efficiency you want both runnings equal. Sparge should be half your preboil volume and not 1/2 of the mash water.due to losses from grain absorption.

If 7 gallons total, say strike 4 and sparge 3.

What's your efficiency now?

The other option is to just spend an additional dollar or two and throw another pound of grain at the problem

If your crush is that poor, you could run it through a blender a cup at a time, but that's a little extreme.

A corona mill is only $25....

 

[Hansbrew]

Mash longer and add a sparge. I use my bottling bucket that I don't use anymore since I keg. Just add your bag with grain to the bucket add your hot water, stir and tap from the bottling spigot back into your brewpot.

 

[PADave]

The other option is to just spend an additional dollar or two and throw another pound of grain at the problem

Since I haven't got my grain mill yet, this is what I've been doing. An extra pound of two row in every brew works.

 

[casualbrewer]

I biab no sparge but I squeeze the bag well. Efficiency is generally between 76-83%.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

It's probably not the crush, but as Wilserbrewesr pointed out, a Corona mill is $25 and can be run off a cordless drill. I see almost no difference between my LHBS crush and my Corona which is set finer. The Corona allows you to crush 1/2# or whatever you need for a particular recipe.

Also:
Check all your volumes, weights and temperatures carefully - make sure you mix well before taking readings. Calibrate your thermometer / hydrometer / refractometer. Check your mash pH.
Stir thoroughly 2-3 times during the mash. <- This makes a big difference for me.
Make sure your bag allows free circulation of the mash.
Mash 90 minutes or more
Try different brands of grain if possible. I have had local grain yield 10% lower.

 

[vance]

What temp do you mash in at when doing a sparge? I just added my grains to 5.75 gal of strike water at 159F - normally with a full volume mash I'd drop to 153 ish, wrap my kettle with a blanket and be good for my
Mash. This time it dropped all the way to 135 and I had to turn my burner back on.

 

[wilserbrewer]

135? Did you have the grain in the freezer?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Use
Rackers strike temp calc

 

[vance]

I'm realizing I screwed up and overreacted - the top of the mash might've been 135 but I wasn't getting accurate temp measurements because of how thick it was compared to my usual mash - having 13# of grain in 5.75 gallons of water, instead of 9.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You need to stir twice, or twice as long.

I'm always surprised how long it takes to get a constant mash temp.

 

[vance]

Well no idea how this will turn out - my attempt at sparging didn't work well either. What does mashing at a really high temp do to a beer?

 

[PADave]

Well no idea how this will turn out - my attempt at sparging didn't work well either. What does mashing at a really high temp do to a beer?

Over 170 is bad.

 

[vance]

Over 170 is bad.

Yeah.... Not expecting very much out of this beer.

 

[mongoose33]

Variables that influence efficiency include mash temp, with 12# of grain at room temperature I need about 167 degree strike water to end up at about 153, stirring once or twice to ensure a good mixing of water, enzymes, and grain, and making sure the crush is fine enough. You could use a variation of Wilserbrewer's recommendation for a corona mill by having the grain crushed at the LHBS, then crushing it a bit finer in the corona mill.

I have a Barley Crusher and it's harder to crush the first time as opposed to the second crush. So it would be easier to double-crush to a finer crush if it's first been crushed at the LHBS.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yeah.... Not expecting very much out of this beer.

Well don't be shocked if it works out ok....you mashed in low, then overheated the mash. It is entirely possible that conversion occurred quickly as you raised the mash temp through the favorable temperature zones and proceeded to mash out at higher temps.

What you did is actually better than mashing in way to high from start.

 

[vance]

Well don't be shocked if it works out ok....you mashed in low, then overheated the mash. It is entirely possible that conversion occurred quickly as you raised the mash temp through the favorable temperature zones and proceeded to mash out at higher temps.

What you did is actually better than mashing in way to high from start.

The great thing about this hobby is that it usually makes some form of beer. Lessons for the future, I guess!

How thick are your mashes usually? I'm positive I had the proper amount of strike water in my kettle, and I had a ~1.75 quarts/pound mash ratio, which seems a reasonable amount for what I've seen around (although usually that's in the context of three vessel brewing, not BIAB).

 

[pocketmon]

IMO, you should identify your issue first.
You can lose sugar in two way: you don't convert all and it is dumped with the malt. You solve the first by finer crush, mash thickness, mash temperature, and adjusting pH of mash. The later can be solved by sparge.
To identify the problem, search "first wort gravity" to find the way to estimate the gravity of the wort.

 

[rtracer]

Did we ever find out what efficiency the OP is getting? I regularly get ~72% with a double crush, no sparging, recirculating or mash out. To me, I am totally fine with my efficiency and just build recipes based on that. Grain is cheap and an extra LB of grain is no big thing to me.
I assume if mash PH is too high, that could also negatively affect efficiency.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I do BIAB and I've see improvements in efficiency by doing the following:

1) If I can't get double-milled grains, as I'm heating my strike water, I put all of my grains into my bag (Wilser) and roll a rolling pin over it, stirring the grains around, for 5-10 minutes. I'm not pulverizing the grains, but I apply a good deal of pressure.
2) After mashing, I twist up the bag/grains into the tightest ball I can, and squeeze the hell out of it. When I think there's no liquid left, I loosen the bag, move the grains around a bit, and do it again.

This has given me a 5-10% increase on efficiency. The lower increases are when I'm using multiple types of grain, while the higher increases are on single-malt batches. I'm not sure that the 2 are related, but it's what I've seen.

 

[vance]

Did we ever find out what efficiency the OP is getting? I regularly get ~72% with a double crush, no sparging, recirculating or mash out. To me, I am totally fine with my efficiency and just build recipes based on that. Grain is cheap and an extra LB of grain is no big thing to me.
I assume if mash PH is too high, that could also negatively affect efficiency.

Rough calculations from the batch I did this past weekend (don't 100% recall the amount of wort left) has me at around 77%, so perfectly acceptable. Not sure what my efficiency was prior to this batch, I've had issues with faulty hydrometers recently.