Unwanted Extra Fermentation

[Bobb25]

I would like to pose a question for the brain trust that gathers here. My normal procedure is to ferment in a FastFerment conical until a Tilt measures the same SG for 5 or 6 days. I then decant into a Corny keg which has been sanitized and filled with CO2 to flush out the sanitizer. I place the keg into a keezer, and while on CO2 slowly lower the temperature to the upper 30's to cold crash. I usually add gelatin to help clear, and after a week of sitting at around 12 PSI begin to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Now for my problem: I bottle what has not been consumed, and store it at cellar temperature, until putting it into the basement compartments of my motorhome, and transporting to Florida where they are gradually put into the beer fridge where they are consumed during a snowbird winter. This year for the first time I have experienced extreme excessive foaming and pressure in the bottles. It is embarrassing to be at a party, and have the cap of your bottle fly off champagne style, and the beer which is poured be mostly foam. While washing the bottles i have noticed some sediment in the bottom of the bottles, so I assume some in-bottle fermentation is happening. Why? And what can I do different short of filtering all of my beer ?

 

[David SEMich]

I'm going to assue you have your processes consistent with proper sanitation.

I had a similar problem a few years ago. I solved it by kegging almost everything. What yeast were you using? I'd have to dig through my notes, but I recall my problem involved Burton or Thames Valley yeast. The ales tasted good but foamed over. The few that I still bottle are going into 1-liter fliptop bottles and I always open over the sink.

 

[bracconiere]

i get sediment in my bottles even counter pressure filling from a keg too, i don't think it's fermentation.....can't be more help then that though.

 

[RM-MN]

While washing the bottles i have noticed some sediment in the bottom of the bottles, so I assume some in-bottle fermentation is happening. Why? And what can I do different short of filtering all of my beer ?

The sediment you find in the bottles while washing is very difficult to completely remove and may contain bacteria or wild yeast that can ferment the sugars in your beer that beer yeast cannot which then leads to overcarbonation and possibly bottle bombs. The answer is to rinse the bottles immediately after pouring so the sediment doesn't get a chance to dry up and stick to the bottom of the bottle. The other possible answer is to make sure all the living cells are killed by heat treating the bottles before refilling. The third answer is to throw out the bottles that have sediment stuck to them.

 

[Kharnynb]

most likely your bottles had some wild yeast or bacteria that fermented it on.

where the bottles clean and sanitised before bottling?
did you sanitise the caps?

 

[hottpeper13]

Do you make any Saison or Belgian beers? Diasticus anyone? After kegging 2 barrel beers I mixed the remaining into a bottling bucket with the amount of sugar for 5 gal and ended up with 7 gal,so I figured they would be under carbed,but all are over carbed. One barrel had a Belgian strain that was STA-1 POF. the other a chico that finished at 1.016. The only thing I can figure is it ate the dextrines from the 1.016 beer.

 

[Bobb25]

The sediment you find in the bottles while washing is very difficult to completely remove and may contain bacteria or wild yeast that can ferment the sugars in your beer that beer yeast cannot which then leads to overcarbonation and possibly bottle bombs. The answer is to rinse the bottles immediately after pouring so the sediment doesn't get a chance to dry up and stick to the bottom of the bottle. The other possible answer is to make sure all the living cells are killed by heat treating the bottles before refilling. The third answer is to throw out the bottles that have sediment stuck to them.

Interesting! I soak the bottles overnight in PBW before using them, and rinse them with hot water with a pressure washer thing on my faucet. I sanitize them with a spritz from a "Vinator" attachment on the bottle tree using Star San, and I dip the caps and clamp tops into the Star San. What kind of heat treating do you have in mend? Dishwasher?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I agree it sounds like a contamination issue, but it's not necessarily from the bottles. Cold temperature prevents or drastically slows down microbial activity, which includes contaminating yeast, so it could have been there in the keg already.

 

[IslandLizard]

After pouring out the beer, aside from rinsing out and leaving filled with water, I always run a bottle brush through bottles when cleaning them. I use plain washing soda. You could use Oxiclean or PBW, but it's more $$ and overkill for the job, IMO.

If especially dirty, because they weren't rinsed out, they either get tossed in recycling or soaked in a bin with washing soda or powdered laundry detergent for a few days. Most regular labels come off too during that soak. Those that don't, get tossed, unless they're special.

Once I know they're CLEAN, I use the hot water jet washer attachment for final rinsing. The only faucets that accept it are in the bathroom sinks... but it works like a charm, I agree!
A spritz of Starsan from the Vinator may not be sufficient to sanitize. I know how handy that Vinator is, but it doesn't guarantee the whole surface being coated sufficiently with Starsan and for the required time 30-60 seconds. I dunk the bottles in a bucket of Starsan, 6-12 at a time and leave them for a few minutes, while I bottle the previous load. I prefer having a helping hand with bottling, my wife even likes it.

Although I don't bottle all that much anymore, as I did in the earlier years, I yet have to see an infection from that process. Some bottles were stored for over 3 years.

Once they're clean, you could heat sanitize or even sterilize them in the oven. I think that's overkill too. Plus the heating cooling cycle may weaken the glass. I dunno for sure.

Diastaticus in one's system, or wild yeasts and bacteria, can cause havoc in bottles. Ask Left Hand Brewing Co.
A semi-local brewery recently had all their piping replaced too due to a tenacious Diastaticus infection.
It may not be your bottles, your kegs or tap system could be harboring them.

One of my brewing friends had a tenacious pedio infestation until he disassembled and thoroughly cleaned his kettle valves.

 

[Bobb25]

Thanks for the tips. I think that it's probably not the bottles because it affects a whole batch more or less evenly. It looks like I will have to deep clean all of the equipment this year. I have one of those reverse flow ( I forgot the name ) cooling gizmos. Should I take it apart, soak it in a 5 gal bucket of PBW, then star san, then recirculate star san through it for , say, a half hour ? The same deal with the hoses with quick connects. I could take the ends off, and boil them for a while, don't think I would want to boil the hoses though, but maybe. ?
Can you make PBW more effective in cleaning thee insides of hoses and stuff by boiling it, and then pumping it through the hoses?
The other thing that lends credence to the idea of an infection, is that with time it gets worse, kind of like something is growing in there.
Interestingly if you pour some and then let the foam settle, the beer tastes good, maybe a little more hot ( alcoholic ) , but good.
I would be thankful for any ideas for sanitizing all of the cold side stuff. I have a standard three tier rig with an electric rims tube.
Bob

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the tips. I think that it's probably not the bottles because it affects a whole batch more or less evenly. It looks like I will have to deep clean all of the equipment this year. I have one of those reverse flow ( I forgot the name ) cooling gizmos. Should I take it apart, soak it in a 5 gal bucket of PBW, then star san, then recirculate star san through it for , say, a half hour ? The same deal with the hoses with quick connects. I could take the ends off, and boil them for a while, don't think I would want to boil the hoses though, but maybe. ?
Can you make PBW more effective in cleaning thee insides of hoses and stuff by boiling it, and then pumping it through the hoses?
The other thing that lends credence to the idea of an infection, is that with time it gets worse, kind of like something is growing in there.
Interestingly if you pour some and then let the foam settle, the beer tastes good, maybe a little more hot ( alcoholic ) , but good.
I would be thankful for any ideas for sanitizing all of the cold side stuff. I have a standard three tier rig with an electric rims tube.
Bob

You mean a counterflow chiller? A thick outer coil for water with a thinner coil for wort, inside?
Yeah, they need cleaning regularly, as do all your hoses and valves. Valves need to be flushed in certain ways and/or taken apart for cleaning, regularly.

You could recirculate hot (boiling) PBW through your whole system for an hour or so. I connect everything as if I'm brewing, heat the kettle with 2 gallons of PBW solution and recirculate through everything, hoses, pump, plate chiller, back into the kettle, for an hour, sometimes longer.

I add a little lye (drain cleaner) to that hot PBW solution. A teaspoon of granules, or an ounce (or 2) of the 17% lye solution I get at the hardware store (Ace).
Warning!
When using lye (caustic soda!), be very careful! Use impervious gloves when handling or touching, and watch out for splashes and such, it damages skin and eyes, can cause blindness.

The RIMS tube needs a good rinsing/flushing out after brewing, removal of any caked-on deposits, but since it's used in the mash, all wort gets boiled after that.

 

[RPh_Guy]

^ To add to that, I recommend against routinely using acid cleansers or sanitizers (including Star San) on copper products because they dissolve the copper. (Just saying, in case your chiller is copper or contains copper parts)

 

[Bobb25]

Thanks guys! Cheers !