Union Hill Water Report? (Stop tannin extraction!)

[Redmond_Fil]

So I've become an over confident and lazy home brewer and it's time to put the old thinking cap back on. I brewed what I and my friends thought was a pretty darn good IPA - but I got a few comments that it was leathery - some claimed to like it (?) thinking it was part of the bitterness from the hops but I went back and did some critical side by side tasting sure enough I was left with a bit of a dry tongue. I'm pretty sure I over sparged and extracted tannins but I've (stupidly) stopped checking pH so I don't know for sure. Anyway I only make mistakes once (well 2 or 3 times at most). To prevent this I've looked for a water report for the Union Hill Water Association, Redmond WA, but they don't seem to publish mineral content since it's unregulated secondary content. I don't suppose someone on HBT has a report for this water system?

 

[acidrain]

I doubt very much it's the water.
You may have better luck in the brew science forum.
How are you sparging so much that you are extracting tannins? Batch or fly sparging? Do you mash out, and if so, what temperature sparge water are you adding? Do you use brewing software?

 

[frettfreak]

Ward labs is a place you can send your water to have it tested. I think its only about $16 and takes less than a week. But i have also read that some strains of Brett can give a leathery dry off flavor. could be an infection of some kind if something got in there. i highly doubt its your water though.

but like acidrain was saying, tannin extraction would be more of a function of temps and brewing process.

 

[Redmond_Fil]

I do continuous sparging using a temperature controller w/ HERMS. For this batch I did a Mash Out at 168 which I don't usually bother with but this was an imperial IPA and my mashing tun was at the limit. The final running's were at 1.012 (which should be ok with the pH but as I said I didn't check) so you may have a point about the water not being at fault. Base Malt was split between US and British 2 row Malts, fermented with WLP002 (English Ale Yeast).

I definitely will check over on the brew science forum. BTW: I borrowed a pool chemistry kit and was able to get a few readings on my water:

• 50 ppm Ca Hardness
• 60 ppm Alkalinity

I use Beer Smith but have never messed around in the water chemistry sections since I've never suspected water as the culprit.

 

[mabrungard]

Even when sparging with zero alkalinity water, I've found out the hard way that you can extract tannins if I oversparge. But if you stopped at 1.012, that should have been early enough to avoid that possibility.

Looking at your pool test kit results, the 60 ppm alkalinity could easily be a problem for both your mashing and sparging water if you aren't adding acid and better controlling mash pH and sparging water alkalinity. This is DEFINITELY a possible cause if you haven't been acidifying in the past brews.

You've already taken a big step with the test kits, taking it a bit farther isn't that much more trouble. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[acidrain]

I do continuous sparging using a temperature controller w/ HERMS. For this batch I did a Mash Out at 168 which I don't usually bother with but this was an imperial IPA and my mashing tun was at the limit. The final running's were at 1.012 (which should be ok with the pH but as I said I didn't check) so you may have a point about the water not being at fault. Base Malt was split between US and British 2 row Malts, fermented with WLP002 (English Ale Yeast).

I definitely will check over on the brew science forum. BTW: I borrowed a pool chemistry kit and was able to get a few readings on my water:

• 50 ppm Ca Hardness
• 60 ppm Alkalinity

I use Beer Smith but have never messed around in the water chemistry sections since I've never suspected water as the culprit.

I don't know exactly where your water comes from... most of the water in this area comes from the cedar river water shed. I'm in Shoreline, and get our water from the Seattle. My water alkalinity is measured as 26ppm Bicarbonate with a PH of 7.3 (Ward Laps report).
Do you know the source?

 

[Redmond_Fil]

Good news! I contacted the UHWA and they sent me a water report.

• 
  Calcium (Ca) 11 ppm
  Magnesium (Mg) 7.5 ppm
  Manganese (Mn) 0.045 ppm
  Alkalinity 58 ppm hardness
  Sulfate (SO4) 0 ppm
  Chloride (Cl) 0 ppm
  Potassium (K) 0 ppm
  Bicarbonate (HCO3) ?? ppm Bicarbonate is not specifically tested
  pH 8.2

 

[Redmond_Fil]

Hit Submit to fast!

Anyway - I measure pH at 7.8 at my tap but I'm not concerned with that.
The Alkalinity/Hardness I'm given to can be converted to Bi-Carbonate by multiplying by 1.2 - so about 69 ppm.

This is quite consistent with my Alkalinity test but I need to understand the water companies Calcium content vs. my pool water test kit report for "Calcium Hardness".

 

[dlester]

Leather is an off flavor caused by Adding tap water to finished beer without boiling. You can find a list of off-flavors online.

Just a thought