Understanding Recipies

[mrodrigues9]

So I've been doing all grain recipes for maybe a year now maybe 4 to 5 brews, all recipes I've done so far always are setup in LB or OZ what do you do with recopies that are in percentages?

as an example

80% 2 Row
15% Carafoam
5% Cara 30

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I go on Brewers friend and adjust the grain till it meets the percentage....there might be a better way but it works

 

[McKnuckle]

In order to use percentages, you need to know the target OG of the recipe, plus your system's typical efficiency. Hopefully you have your efficiency and losses set up in software. Then it's just a matter of finding a total grain weight that results in matching the target OG.

Some software allows for scaling a recipe, which is a simple way to play with it until the OG works out. You could start with 10 lbs total, which makes it easy to plug in weights for things given percentages. The above would be:

8 lbs 2 Row
1.5 lbs Carafoam
0.5 lbs Cara 30

From there, see what the OG comes to. Scale the recipe up or down til OG matches your target. Personally, I prefer to use a total grain weight and percentages to configure my recipes, rather than individual ingredient weights. I have created a custom spreadsheet to do that since none of the available software does what I want.

 

[mrodrigues9]

In order to use percentages, you need to know the target OG of the recipe, plus your system's typical efficiency. Hopefully you have your efficiency and losses set up in software. Then it's just a matter of finding a total grain weight that results in matching the target OG.

Some software allows for scaling a recipe, which is a simple way to play with it until the OG works out. You could start with 10 lbs total, which makes it easy to plug in weights for things given percentages. The above would be:

8 lbs 2 Row
1.5 lbs Carafoam
0.5 lbs Cara 30

From there, see what the OG comes to. Scale the recipe up or down til OG matches your target. Personally, I prefer to use a total grain weight and percentages to configure my recipes, rather than individual ingredient weights. I have created a custom spreadsheet to do that since none of the available software does what I want.

Makes sense so in beersmith or brewers friend I basically just play with the recipe until I match the OG that the recipe calls for.

I assume that if I wanted to rounds things to the nearest .5 LB and that resulted in more being needed that I would simply have to meet the new SG that the program shows

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Plus water volume...Not getting anywhere without that and the starting point. First plug in water say 6 gallons and adjust from there

 

[McKnuckle]

I assume that if I wanted to rounds things to the nearest .5 LB and that resulted in more being needed that I would simply have to meet the new SG that the program shows

Yes, or slightly adjust one of several things to compensate:

If the OG is too high, boil for a little less time, or use a bit more water (larger batch size). If the OG is too low, boil a little longer or use a bit less water (smaller batch size). Five gallons is not set in stone. You can brew 4, 4.5, 4.75, 5.25, etc. etc. - or anything you like.

Also, you should memorize that a pound is 16 ounces. Every 8 oz is 0.5 lb, 4 oz = 0.25, 2 oz = .125. That will help you refine the percentages without grossly rounding to the nearest half pound (that's 5% of a 10 lb grist bill, rather a lot).

 

[Sadu]

Makes sense so in beersmith or brewers friend I basically just play with the recipe until I match the OG that the recipe calls for.

I assume that if I wanted to rounds things to the nearest .5 LB and that resulted in more being needed that I would simply have to meet the new SG that the program shows

I use Beersmith and you don't need to "play with the recipe".

First set your batch size and expected brewhouse efficiency.
Then add all the grains to the recipe, just the default amount of each (500g in my setup).
Then use the "grain percentage" to set the percentages you want for each grain.
Then use the "adjust gravity" button to set the OG you want. This scales the amounts nicely.
Then add the hops. I tend to work off IBUs for early additions and actual amounts in the recipe for late additions.

This getup works awesome if you have Beersmith set to grams. If you are working in pounds/ounces then you aren't going to get nice round numbers for anything.

I have a gram scale so I don't really care if my base malt comes out at 4867 grams. I'd rather have round numbers for the percentages since those are the numbers I use for decision making - I can look at the percentage column and see that there's 12% crystal malt in a recipe and maybe that needs dialing back. Makes way more sense than 1lb of crystal malt which means something different for every recipe.

 

[mrodrigues9]

I use Beersmith and you don't need to "play with the recipe".

First set your batch size and expected brewhouse efficiency.
Then add all the grains to the recipe, just the default amount of each (500g in my setup).
Then use the "grain percentage" to set the percentages you want for each grain.
Then use the "adjust gravity" button to set the OG you want. This scales the amounts nicely.
Then add the hops. I tend to work off IBUs for early additions and actual amounts in the recipe for late additions.

This getup works awesome if you have Beersmith set to grams. If you are working in pounds/ounces then you aren't going to get nice round numbers for anything.

I have a gram scale so I don't really care if my base malt comes out at 4867 grams. I'd rather have round numbers for the percentages since those are the numbers I use for decision making - I can look at the percentage column and see that there's 12% crystal malt in a recipe and maybe that needs dialing back. Makes way more sense than 1lb of crystal malt which means something different for every recipe.

Sadu I just started using BeerSmith on PC so I'm a little new to that as well, I've been using the phone app but basically just to check IBUs and SRM on recipes but I found the Grain % input on there thanks! just a matter of getting all my brew house info entered in

 

[BGHSmt7]

Beersmith actually has a button for adjust percentages. Place all your grains in the recipe, then click the button and copy the percentages over. You can adjust from there if you need to.

 

[acidrain]

What everybody has said, plus I can't emphasize enough how important it is to know your exact boil-off rate. Everybody's system is different, so it would be impossible to just take a recipe and expect to get the same results from a different system.
Boil off rate
dead space losses
Even the grain crush will make a difference
Take careful notes of every batch. Even if mistakes were made. Write down what you did, not what you were supposed to do. Sometimes mistakes will yield better results, so writing them down is important.

 

[mrodrigues9]

Thank you everyone I have a much better understanding on this now I've started taking detailed notes but only have estimate (1 Gallon) lost to my mash tun false bottom, any process you guys have used to get an exact number on this?

 

[McKnuckle]

One gallon is a huge loss, so you might want to check on that and find a way to reduce it, if indeed the amount is correct.

But it should be easy to determine: Just fill the tun with water, then drain as normal. When you've recovered what comes out naturally, pour out what remains into a pitcher or measuring cup and find out how much volume it is. I prefer to weigh water for accuracy. Use a scale that resolves to grams such as a postal scale. One kilogram of water = one liter. Super easy to convert liters to gallons (divide by 3.785).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Also, you should memorize that a pound is 16 ounces. Every 8 oz is 0.5 lb, 4 oz = 0.25, 2 oz = .125. That will help you refine the percentages without grossly rounding to the nearest half pound (that's 5% of a 10 lb grist bill, rather a lot).

Or just go metric...

 

[mrodrigues9]

One gallon is a huge loss, so you might want to check on that and find a way to reduce it, if indeed the amount is correct.

But it should be easy to determine: Just fill the tun with water, then drain as normal. When you've recovered what comes out naturally, pour out what remains into a pitcher or measuring cup and find out how much volume it is. I prefer to weigh water for accuracy. Use a scale that resolves to grams such as a postal scale. One kilogram of water = one liter. Super easy to convert liters to gallons (divide by 3.785).

Seriously appreciate this up until now I have been "brewing" following a recipe someone posted and going with it I really want to understand this stuff fully. So I assume I can just do what you said above with no grain?

 

[McKnuckle]

Yes, definitely. No grain, just water.

You lose water in these places:

- Absorbed into the grain (0.12 gal/lb is a good starting estimate);
- Stuck in the mash tun (depends on your system and process);
- Evaporated during the boil (depends on kettle dimensions and boil vigor, plus ambient humidity);
- Absorbed into hops (0.09 gal/oz); and
- Left in the kettle (depends on your system and process)

You need a handle on all of these, and all are measurable and/or controllable.

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, definitely. No grain, just water.

You lose water in these places:

- Absorbed into the grain (0.12 gal/lb is a good starting estimate); Affects lauter efficiency
- Stuck in the mash tun (depends on your system and process); Affects lauter efficiency
- Evaporated during the boil (depends on kettle dimensions and boil vigor, plus ambient humidity); Does not affect efficiency, but does affect OG and volume
- Absorbed into hops (0.09 gal/oz); Affects brewhouse efficiency and
- Left in the kettle (depends on your system and process) Affects brewhouse efficiency

You need a handle on all of these, and all are measurable and/or controllable.

Added some notes to McKnuckle's fine post. Note that mash efficiency = conversion efficiency * lauter efficiency, so lauter efficiency affects mash efficiency.

Brew on

 

[McKnuckle]

Thanks Doug! Note that I mis-typed and the hops absorption should be gal/oz, not lb. I corrected it on my original post but you quoted me before I did so...

Nice additions about efficiency impact - it's great to keep clarifying that as it mystifies so many folks.

Cheers

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks Doug! Note that I mis-typed and the hops absorption should be gal/oz, not lb. I corrected it on my original post but you quoted me before I did so...

Nice additions about efficiency impact - it's great to keep clarifying that as it mystifies so many folks.

Cheers

Fixed the quote.

Yes, efficiency, and what affects what, seems to be mysterious to many brewers. I find that taking the time to gain an understanding helps make sense of at lot of things. That's why I spend a lot of time answering questions about it. Hopefully other brewers find it helpful.

Brew on

 

[frozengator]

Not sure if you are interested, but on YouTube bbq and beer by Larry has a excel sheet that is handy. I have use his video to help me through my first all grain brew. And have done several since. I tried beersmith and it was confusing until I tried a couple brews first

 

[Qhrumphf]

When "testing" your mash tun with water (and when brewing), affix tubing to the output such that the end is below the bottom of your mash tun. If you care about HSA have it reach the bottom of your kettle. If you don't, it doesn't matter as long as it's below the level of the bottom of your mash tun.

This way it pulls a siphon, drains from the bottom, and minimizes dead space (with my old cooler MLT with false bottom, dead space is effectively zero). Otherwise if you just drain straight out of the valve, it'll only drain as far as the valve, with anything below left behind. This is how you end up with a gallon of dead space.

If you're using a braid or something similar it's harder to avoid. Trash the braid and get a proper false bottom.

 

[Sadu]

Or just go metric...

I find it impossible to understand recipes where it's 4 pounds of this and half a pound of that and a pound of something else and 3oz of whatever.

Makes way more sense to design your recipes in percent so you can easily get a feel for how it is balanced. Then let the actual weights come out however they come out. For me I have beersmith set to grams and if it wants 5634g (12.42lb) of base malt then so be it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Makes way more sense to design your recipes in percent so you can easily get a feel for how it is balanced. Then let the actual weights come out however they come out. For me I have beersmith set to grams and if it wants 5634g (12.42lb) of base malt then so be it.

If you're already working in metric, then it's pretty easy to have a feel for the percentages in any case, and since scales don't weight in percents, conversion is just another step. 5 US gallons is a sufficiently well established norm that most people will have a pretty good feel for a beer quoted in absolute amounts in 5 gal, I'll quote percentages if I'm sharing a recipe that's not in 5 gallons or maybe if it has lots of speciality malts, but to be honest neither of those often apply. In fact I'm more likely that not brewing with just a single malt, and it's more relevant to allow for different brewhouse efficiencies and quote "a Maris Otter wort of 1045 OG" or whatever, let people adjust for their own efficiency.