Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[swimIan]

3 gallons under. I had a port under the basket and a diy recirc arm on top. It was better circulation in both places during the mash but different grain bills really messed with the flow rate and as a result the temp control parameters.

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

I found the keys to these systems are the right size crush, the SS manifold, stiring a couple of times during mash and rice hulls.

 

[jabba11]

My wort is crystal clear until I hoist the basket... what I boil doesn’t look at all like the clear wort on top of the grain bed!

pull the basket out really slow.. allow it to drain slowly out. just before the bottom breaks the surface pull it quicker though. the dunking action seems to draw small particles at the end

 

[jabba11]

I found the keys to these systems are the right size crush, the SS manifold, stiring a couple of times during mash and rice hulls.

I agree with this completely as an FYI. These things are a staple of my brewing although I don't always stir three time usually at dough in at first mash temp then maybe once again but not always. Per a reference above though it was stated that the recirc should be left of the siphon and run clockwise. I run mine like in the picture (right side and counter clockwise since I don't have a port to the left although I could reposition the siphon I suppose. My whirlpool works fine counter clockwise so Im not sure why it "should" be the other way but im open to hearing why.

 

[swimIan]

How many microns is the bottom filter on the basket?

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

I am sure it is a small part of the equation but north of the equator vortices run clockwise so I am just going with the flow and mother nature. There was a study done, Experiments with a Whirlpool Tank. By G. Van Gheluwe and M. Dadic Molson Breweries published in The Brewers Digest, September 1972 . In the study, many factors were studied. Their research showed an increase in sedimentation of 6.2 % by running counter clockwise vs. clockwise so why not go clockwise.

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

I'm thinking of installing a Unistrut Trolly above my 25 gal Down Under and getting rid of the hoist bar that came with it. My system is setup in the basement so I can attach everything to the basement ceiling. I'm looking to make getting the grain basket out of the kettle an easier task for one person. Has anyone installed something similar? I'd appreciate any pictures.

Well you talked me into it. Just installed it and I love it! Simple and so easy to roll! All parts from amazon. 5 foot section plus trolley and brackets right at $100.00 .

 

[jahlinux]

Well you talked me into it. Just installed it and I love it! Simple and so easy to roll! All parts from amazon. 5 foot section plus trolley and brackets right at $100.00 .

Glad it worked out. I think I'll place an order myself.

 

[jabba11]

I am sure it is a small part of the equation but north of the equator vortices run clockwise so I am just going with the flow and mother nature. There was a study done, Experiments with a Whirlpool Tank. By G. Van Gheluwe and M. Dadic Molson Breweries published in The Brewers Digest, September 1972 . In the study, many factors were studied. Their research showed an increase in sedimentation of 6.2 % by running counter clockwise vs. clockwise so why not go clockwise.

Ill look to see how I can replumb to run it the other way but may be tough but worth the experiment if it improves it. Wont be as easy in my setup as just switching things around but may still be possible

 

[RockyMtnGT]

I am sure it is a small part of the equation but north of the equator vortices run clockwise so I am just going with the flow and mother nature. There was a study done, Experiments with a Whirlpool Tank. By G. Van Gheluwe and M. Dadic Molson Breweries published in The Brewers Digest, September 1972 . In the study, many factors were studied. Their research showed an increase in sedimentation of 6.2 % by running counter clockwise vs. clockwise so why not go clockwise.

I haven't pulled the trigger on the Nano yet, but based on this, I have turned the whirlpool fitting on my SS Brewtech kettle to flow clockwise.

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

I haven't pulled the trigger on the Nano yet, but based on this, I have turned the whirlpool fitting on my SS Brewtech kettle to flow clockwise.

Ill look to see how I can replumb to run it the other way but may be tough but worth the experiment if it improves it. Wont be as easy in my setup as just switching things around but may still be possible

Probably not a big deal but if you can do it without a huge hassle why not.

 

[prosperbrews]

Well you talked me into it. Just installed it and I love it! Simple and so easy to roll! All parts from amazon. 5 foot section plus trolley and brackets right at $100.00 .

Can you link to the exact parts you used, please? This looks like a great idea.

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KN9UA0S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MH3M7KE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IA3JZDW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

You will need two of these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MH3M7KE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[prosperbrews]

You will need two of these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MH3M7KE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Thank you - I figured as much and ordered all the parts yesterday. Excellent solution

 

[jahlinux]

Finally got to try out the Unistrut trolly system. Works great! The trolly moves very easy, almost too easy, but it's a lot better than lifting the basket off the hoist and into the bucket by hand.

 

[prosperbrews]

View attachment 606241 View attachment 606242

Finally got to try out the Unistrut trolly system. Works great! The trolly moves very easy, almost too easy, but it's a lot better than lifting the basket off the hoist and into the bucket by hand.

I just received my unistrut parts. For the ends of the rail, I noticed you have bolts through the rail to block the trolley from coming out the end. Did your unistrut come with these holes pre drilled? Mine did not

 

[jahlinux]

I just received my unistrut parts. For the ends of the rail, I noticed you have bolts through the rail to block the trolley from coming out the end. Did your unistrut come with these holes pre drilled? Mine did not

No I just drilled the holes myself.

 

[Dockside_Brewing]

I also just drilled out each end and added a 1/4 inch bolt for stops.

 

[30Bones]

So after a couple years with my CO BIAB setup and having enough issues that made me almost quit the hobby I decided to dual purpose my 65 quart camping cooler to a MT. Years ago I used the Coleman Extreme for a MT with success and then I got the BIAB bug.

My 20 gallon electric kettle will now be my HLT and BK and my mash process is now back to being simple, quite, virtually trouble free and cleaning will actually be easier.

I made a CPVC manifold/false bottom. Close to one thousand holes in this sucker

 

[jabba11]

Sorry you've had bad experiences. I have done maybe 60 brew days with my system now and while I have had a few minor issues I was able to work around them with no problems and have been VERY happy with my system. My pump did fail and I had to replace it but I am actually happier with the chugger in place.

 

[jahlinux]

Sorry you've had bad experiences. I have done maybe 60 brew days with my system now and while I have had a few minor issues I was able to work around them with no problems and have been VERY happy with my system. My pump did fail and I had to replace it but I am actually happier with the chugger in place.

I agree, the system works great. It took me a while to get BeerSmith dialed in, but now I consistently hit my numbers and the beer is coming out awesome.

 

[Stupidsexyflanders]

I agree, the system works great. It took me a while to get BeerSmith dialed in, but now I consistently hit my numbers and the beer is coming out awesome.

Care to share your beersmith numbers? I have used a basic biab calculator in the past, but now want something better.

Thanks!

 

[30Bones]

• Mash re circulation (IMHO it's not needed) created a lot of issues from wort not getting through the bed fast enough to starve the element and fry it (multiple times) if you walked away for a hot minute, along with massive temp differences, constant stirring of the grains to keep the flow going no matter the grain crush it seemed. My basket is the solid sided, mesh bottom. Pump has always been my old chugger. I sent the silly pump it came with back once I unboxed it.
• Constant pump adjustment and babysitting. I think it leaves a lot to be desired. Some love it, I liked it, but far from love
• Efficiency was always all over the map and hitting my numbers was never consistent.
• Stainless basket is/was a PITA to clean

I have a 20 gallon basket, stainless frame and pulley setup for sale if anyone is interested that is wanting to DIY a setup like this

 

[jahlinux]

Care to share your beersmith numbers? I have used a basic biab calculator in the past, but now want something better.

Thanks!

Sure, Ive attached a screenshot of the equipment profile page. My next batch I'll be changing the efficiency to 68% it's currently set to 67%. I only have a 1 gallon boil off because I use a steam condenser that allows me to boil with the kettle lid on. I also changed the BIAB Grain Absorption to 0.8000 fl oz/oz.

 

[pretzelb]

• Mash re circulation (IMHO it's not needed) created a lot of issues from wort not getting through the bed fast enough to starve the element and fry it (multiple times) if you walked away for a hot minute, along with massive temp differences, constant stirring of the grains to keep the flow going no matter the grain crush it seemed. My basket is the solid sided, mesh bottom. Pump has always been my old chugger. I sent the silly pump it came with back once I unboxed it.
• Constant pump adjustment and babysitting. I think it leaves a lot to be desired. Some love it, I liked it, but far from love
• Efficiency was always all over the map and hitting my numbers was never consistent.
• Stainless basket is/was a PITA to clean

I have a 20 gallon basket, stainless frame and pulley setup for sale if anyone is interested that is wanting to DIY a setup like this

I've had good luck with re-circulation using a bag.

 

[30Bones]

I am of the mindset reticulation is not needed. I also think my beer made before in a cooler MT was better. Could be me and I am not knocking the COBS setup one bit. Just had a shortcoming I fixed and in reality it didn't cost me anything to do it. I had everything minus the $10 in CPVC

 

[pretzelb]

I am of the mindset reticulation is not needed. I also think my beer made before in a cooler MT was better. Could be me and I am not knocking the COBS setup one bit. Just had a shortcoming I fixed and in reality it didn't cost me anything to do it. I had everything minus the $10 in CPVC

I'd like to eliminate recirculation from my process but I find it the only way to nail my target temps. The new system from SS Brewtech looks very interesting (20g version on the way) but I'd need to build my own stand with a hoist.

 

[jahlinux]

I'd like to eliminate recirculation from my process but I find it the only way to nail my target temps. The new system from SS Brewtech looks very interesting (20g version on the way) but I'd need to build my own stand with a hoist.

What is wrong with the recirculation process? I'm hitting my pre-boil gravities, beer is turning out just as good if not better then when I used a cooler. I can maintain a constant mash temp. I'm very happy with the CBS setup. It did take some time to fine tune it to BeerSmith, but now that I've got that figured out everything is good.

 

[Horseflesh]

I found my solid-side basket COBS system much easier to use when I made a couple of tweaks.

1. Adding the Ss manifold... the single return hose was no good, at least in my small batches with a very thick mash.

2. Not being afraid to run the pump slowly. Any amount of turnover seems to be adequate, really. So I start the mash with the pump throttled way down, slow enough to be at no risk of overdoing it... and I try to forget about it for 10-15 minutes, at which point I turn it up a bit. Having the sight glass makes it easy to monitor, it only takes a minute to see if an adjustment is going to be safe.

When I insisted on running the pump as fast as possible at all times, it was far from relaxing.

 

[TxBigHops]

Sure, Ive attached a screenshot of the equipment profile page. My next batch I'll be changing the efficiency to 68% it's currently set to 67%. I only have a 1 gallon boil off because I use a steam condenser that allows me to boil with the kettle lid on. I also changed the BIAB Grain Absorption to 0.8000 fl oz/oz.

View attachment 609413

Why do you think efficiency is so low? Doesn't CBS advertise getting over 80%? I've been seriously considering purchasing a 1bbl Dual for some time, but under 70% efficiency would be a deal killer.

 

[30Bones]

What is wrong with the recirculation process? I'm hitting my pre-boil gravities, beer is turning out just as good if not better then when I used a cooler. I can maintain a constant mash temp. I'm very happy with the CBS setup. It did take some time to fine tune it to BeerSmith, but now that I've got that figured out everything is good.

Nothing really wrong with it, it's just not needed and you measure the temp in the grains 6" down compared to what the probe reads right next to the element you will see 6 degrees or more of a temp swing. For me the cooler was a solution to a problem. Again, still love my setup and would buy it again...minus the basket, frame, hoist.

 

[Horseflesh]

Why do you think efficiency is so low? Doesn't CBS advertise getting over 80%? I've been seriously considering purchasing a 1bbl Dual for some time, but under 70% efficiency would be a deal killer.

My BHE is roughly 68-70% as well, and to make it even more interesting, complete conversion takes me 90 minutes. That was really surprising.

Since I do adjust mash pH I am left suspecting my crush quality as the main culprit. My crush is whatever I get from the LHBS because I don't have a mill yet.

Another factor is perhaps my batch size. I do 5 gal batches in a 20 gal COBS kettle, so I have FOUR GALLONS below the basket and the mash in the basket is very thick. The one time I made a mistake and had more water and a looser mash, both mash and BHE shot up.

They say that it isn't supposed to matter, that it is only the total water:grain ratio, no matter how they are split up... but that is what I saw.

Anyway if you are milling yourself and doing normal sized batches I bet you will be OK.

 

[jahlinux]

Why do you think efficiency is so low? Doesn't CBS advertise getting over 80%? I've been seriously considering purchasing a 1bbl Dual for some time, but under 70% efficiency would be a deal killer.

Not sure, but now that I have repeatability I’m going to leave well enough alone. The last few batches were coming in just under 70% efficiency. I think for recipe development 68% will work out best. The only thing I can think of is possibly the crush. If I crush any finer I don’t think I’ll have decent recirculation. Also I find I get complete conversion within a normal 60 minute mash.

 

[jrb03]

One thing to remember here, is how old are some of these CBS systems. They changed to a 600 micron screen in the basket sometime in 2018, which has eliminated these stuck mashes and flow problems. I can run my pump full throttle no issue at all, which also solves the temp stratification some are reporting.

 

[jabba11]

• Mash re circulation (IMHO it's not needed) created a lot of issues from wort not getting through the bed fast enough to starve the element and fry it (multiple times) if you walked away for a hot minute, along with massive temp differences, constant stirring of the grains to keep the flow going no matter the grain crush it seemed. My basket is the solid sided, mesh bottom. Pump has always been my old chugger. I sent the silly pump it came with back once I unboxed it.
• Constant pump adjustment and babysitting. I think it leaves a lot to be desired. Some love it, I liked it, but far from love
• Efficiency was always all over the map and hitting my numbers was never consistent.
• Stainless basket is/was a PITA to clean

I have a 20 gallon basket, stainless frame and pulley setup for sale if anyone is interested that is wanting to DIY a setup like this

interesting because I have the exact system you described. I don't have ANY of these problems. I will say if you make high alcohol beers in small batches its possible to have these problems though. I wont go into possible solutions because Ill assume you've read them all here

 

[jabba11]

One thing to remember here, is how old are some of these CBS systems. They changed to a 600 micron screen in the basket sometime in 2018, which has eliminated these stuck mashes and flow problems. I can run my pump full throttle no issue at all, which also solves the temp stratification some are reporting.

my system is pre 18 and I don't have any serious sticking issues. lots of rice hulls and a sac rest with wheat and adjustment of the grind. I consistently get 82%

 

[jrb03]

my system is pre 18 and I don't have any serious sticking issues. lots of rice hulls and a sac rest with wheat and adjustment of the grind. I consistently get 82%

That’s great. Reading through this thread there are plenty of older posts with people reporting stuck mashes, flow issues, playing with crush size, rice hills, teeing the flow of through the whirlpool port, etc. I’ve been to the CBS shop and the guys specifically told me they changed to a bigger 600 micron screen to fix those problems. I can report no rice hulls, coarse crush,
Ssbrewtech manifold, choked flow needed with the new basket.

My post was directed at the person who just asked why the efficiency is so bad, sorry I should of quoted it. The smaller screens they used before had people using a coarser crush and restricting recirculation to avoid flow issues. With the new screen you can crush to normal biab fine size and get the 80% efficiency.

 

[jabba11]

That’s great. Reading through this thread there are plenty of older posts with people reporting stuck mashes, flow issues, playing with crush size, rice hills, teeing the flow of through the whirlpool port, etc. I’ve been to the CBS shop and the guys specifically told me they changed to a bigger 600 micron screen to fix those problems. I can report no rice hulls, coarse crush,
Ssbrewtech manifold, choked flow needed with the new basket.

My post was directed at the person who just asked why the efficiency is so bad, sorry I should of quoted it. The smaller screens they used before had people using a coarser crush and restricting recirculation to avoid flow issues. With the new screen you can crush to normal biab fine size and get the 80% efficiency.

honestly if it helps with flow I wish mine was one LOL. I cant say I just dump and walk away. You have to be vigilant with mine especially with wheat and or large grain bills. Crush size CAN be a problem as well but Ive dialed mine in and I think in general that's what it takes. You have to find the right way to use it. If you make high alcohol beers the system can be limiting imho. And by high alcohol I mean like 8% or greater

 

[TxBigHops]

That’s great. Reading through this thread there are plenty of older posts with people reporting stuck mashes, flow issues, playing with crush size, rice hills, teeing the flow of through the whirlpool port, etc. I’ve been to the CBS shop and the guys specifically told me they changed to a bigger 600 micron screen to fix those problems. I can report no rice hulls, coarse crush,
Ssbrewtech manifold, choked flow needed with the new basket.

My post was directed at the person who just asked why the efficiency is so bad, sorry I should of quoted it. The smaller screens they used before had people using a coarser crush and restricting recirculation to avoid flow issues. With the new screen you can crush to normal biab fine size and get the 80% efficiency.

Thanks! That's good to know that CBS fixed some issues and that the newer systems don't have the same problems. I think another issue the individual who reported under 70% might be having is less than a full capacity batch. HIs attachment indicated he was only putting 12 gallons into the fermenter with a half barrel system. With the smaller batch there's a considerable percentage of his mash liquid under the basket. Not sure if that could be impacting his efficiency issues.

Regarding higher ABV beers, what is the issue there? Too tall of a grain bed?