Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[Horseflesh]

Sunday I fired up the Nano Home for another batch of Yooper's oatmeal stout. Brew day was pretty uneventful with 2 small exceptions. One, I forgot to do the CBS-recommended 113F rest to make flaked oats less gummy. Two, I ended up half a gallon short pre-boil, possibly due to #1. My mash efficiency was also lower than expected despite rinsing with the missing half-gallon.

Still trying to get the numbers dialed in on this system... It does seem very sensitive to mash thickness. In this case I was using 8.35 gal water to 12.1 lb grain.

A thick mash means lower efficiency, but a thin mash means you might have to boil off a lot of water, which has its own issues. I am curious how you other 5 gallon guys are calculating your water volumes. I thought I had a BeerSmith "BIAB Grain Absorbtion" value that worked for me but I'm coming in low now. I don't really care what my efficiency is, as long as I can make it consistent. (This batch was 73% I think; last batch was 93% because I goofed up there too and somehow got too much water in, making the mash really fluid.)

This time I remembered to play with my thermal camera, so here are some pictures. My thermal camera is cheap and lame--do not trust any temperatures in the photos! However, you can evaluate relative temperatures between two areas provided that they are the same material.

Kettle image, useless but fun.

Top of the mash. The bright spot is an area where liquid wort has pooled. Water reads hotter than wet grain at the same temperature so this isn't apples to apples.

Here's a little video clip of the same area: https://gfycat.com/HollowYellowAdeliepenguin

When probing the grain bed with my Thermapen I saw temperatures between 156F (target temp, deep in the grain bed near the under-basket liquid) and 149F (farthest away from the recirc return, top of the grain bed). When I stirred the mash, I could hear the element kick on, as the cooler liquid got back into circulation. I'm convinced that a manifold like the Ss Brewtech model that some of you use is a good idea.

(Oh, my replacement element did not have a hot spot near the base, either.)

 

[jabba11]

Of the things Ive done that were an improvement I believe the manifold was of most benefit fwiw. As far as water volumes I never do a 5 gallon batch. I do 7 or more but that mostly because I need seven or so in the fermenter for the coil inside to be effective at keeping temp. I usually just bottle the last 2 gallons or so if I do a seven gallon batch. I haven't had any real difficulties in water volumes myself. yes sometimes its a little low it seems. I always keep a gallon aside anyway to sparge end of mash and I use that to. My OG has kinda been hit or miss depending on what I am brewing though. Last weekend for some reason my efficiency was MUCH higher than it has been and Im hoping it has something to do with recirc under the basket although Im not sure why that would increase it. I may just simply have put something in wrong. Ive been using beersmith for volumes.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Did a 15 gallon (14 in fermenter) batch yesterday, no issues at all. Everything went great. Next step is to work on getting my efficiency up. Whether it be running the recycle faster or finer crush on the grain it's pretty bad right now. Going to crush the next batch at .039 and see how it does.

 

[Traz1986]

Looks good. Would you mind posting a few pics of the plumbing and pump. Is yours the 20 gallon? Just got the 15 gallon kettle and basket and am in the process of setting it up. Thanks!

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Looks good. Would you mind posting a few pics of the plumbing and pump. Is yours the 20 gallon? Just got the 15 gallon kettle and basket and am in the process of setting it up. Thanks!

I can when I get out of work. Comes out of a pump into a T with a valve on each end. One valve goes to the bottom of the kettle, one to the top. Pump is fed by 1" inlet fittings and hose, hose to the bottom is 3/4" fittings/hose, and the one going to the mash manifold is 3/16" hose.

 

[Traz1986]

I can when I get out of work. Comes out of a pump into a T with a valve on each end. One valve goes to the bottom of the kettle, one to the top. Pump is fed by 1" inlet fittings and hose, hose to the bottom is 3/4" fittings/hose, and the one going to the mash manifold is 3/16" hose.

Thanks.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Looks good. Would you mind posting a few pics of the plumbing and pump. Is yours the 20 gallon? Just got the 15 gallon kettle and basket and am in the process of setting it up. Thanks!

Thanks.

 

[jahlinux]

Does anyone use Brewer's Friend? Getting ready to brew my first batch using my 25gal "Down Under". Looking for help setting up my equipment profile.

 

[Traz1986]

BTW just another plug for Tim. I emailed him about converting site glass into whirlpool over the weekend I asked him to check my order make sure I got what I needed. He responded Monday morning and updated my order with the pieces I had missed! Great service!

Could you send a pic of the whirlpool attachment for the sight glass port. That port sits a little higher, so I'm guessing it makes a sharp bend downward? Thanks.

 

[jready]

Could you send a pic of the whirlpool attachment for the sight glass port. That port sits a little higher, so I'm guessing it makes a sharp bend downward? Thanks.

Sure headed to a hokey game tonight but I will try to do it later or tomorrow.

 

[marjen]

Was looking at their 5 BBL system and it looks like a huge BIAB, am I off there? Pretty cool to be able to brew on that scale with such a simple method.

 

[mcgimpkins]

Was looking at their 5 BBL system and it looks like a huge BIAB, am I off there? Pretty cool to be able to brew on that scale with such a simple method.

Yeah you got it, they are your BIAB scaled up to 5 or 10 BBL.

On their description they list "Integrated grain dump station". I've wondered how that works, as I have had to somewhat man-handle the basket when I have done 30+ lbs of grain. I would imagine it is easier than cleaning out a 10 BBL mash tun though.

 

[jabba11]

Just a note here about something new with my setup. I purchased a dernord ULD ripple element for my system and am currently mashed in. I also bent the element slightly apart/open (I had seen this done with a friend of mines system). So far I will say that it seemed to take a bit longer to get to temp for some reason maybe the uld part but as an aside it seems to keep temp much better than did (not overshooting). Definitely longer to get to boil BUT the boil I'm getting is much better I think., It seems to be more centered and a larger "spot" where the boil roils. With the original element my boil was concentrated near where the element port was. Also today was the second day with recirculation under the basket during the mash. So far AGAIN today my efficiency was much higher than what I had been getting. Today was 86%! That's two times in a row it has been that high and I may be on to something in that regard. I also just slowed mu whole process down some today. I let the basket hang longer and I actually did a 170 degree 1 gallon sparge at the end. With regard to the sparge I may actually set up something to use my old sparge arm to run 1 gallon through it at the end every time. I know that slows things down some but not terribly and if it means a 5-10% bump in efficiency I have no problem doing it. Id run it through relatively quick in under 3 mins say. Today I also pumped through my hop spider whenever I added anything. I know people talk about utilization and so I figured pumping through it for a minute or two after every addition would help (see photo). Additionally the element seemed VERY clean compared to my old one and previous batch. I simply wiped it down and it was nice and shiny again no scrubbing. I suspect that the ULD DOES make a difference in scorching and build up etc. This batch did have 1 pound of flaked wheat in it.

 

[cyclonebeer]

Does the new element connect to the hot pod?
I'd bet the bump in efficiency has a lot to do with a slightly thicker mash and a small sparge, but I could be wrong.
Also, with a whirlpool port down at the bottom of the kettle, why not just dump hops in the kettle and ditch the spider? Couldn't you just cone up trub and hop debris by whirlpooling after temp knockdown? I have a spider just like yours, but rarely use it - unless I'm brewing a Pilsner or something lightly hopped that I want to keep "clean".

 

[jabba11]

Does the new element connect to the hot pod?
I'd bet the bump in efficiency has a lot to do with a slightly thicker mash and a small sparge, but I could be wrong.
Also, with a whirlpool port down at the bottom of the kettle, why not just dump hops in the kettle and ditch the spider? Couldn't you just cone up trub and hop debris by whirlpooling after temp knockdown? I have a spider just like yours, but rarely use it - unless I'm brewing a Pilsner or something lightly hopped that I want to keep "clean".

I don't know what a hot pod is but I simply replaced the element on the existing cord back into the metal grounding/protective housing. It IS plugged into my control panel if that's what you were getting at. I use the spider because I clean in place and its hella easier to do without a tun of junk in the bottom of the pot. This brew had 3 oz of pellets and 2 ounces of peels. I have always spared. Today was the first one I did heated though usually I just use a gallon I had pulled back. The bump in efficiency cant be attributed to the mash I dont think because its the same size grist and water volume I have used before only with an 8% bump in this case. It might be that the slight whirpool has a bit of a capillary action on the mash itself. That's a guess on my part but I can see how it might.

 

[jready]

Could you send a pic of the whirlpool attachment for the sight glass port. That port sits a little higher, so I'm guessing it makes a sharp bend downward? Thanks.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1495375798.543385.jpg

It is a tight fit with the grain basket in.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Transferred 10 gallons of my last batch to the Brite tank and kegged 2.5 gallons. Beer is getting better and better. No complaints on the system anymore, still working on my efficiency but I'll get there.

Brew budget is blown for this year but next up will be an RO system for the water.

 

[Traz1986]

View attachment 401333

It is a tight fit with the grain basket in.

Thank you. Is your set up the 15 or 20 gallon kettle? I had to cut the tube for the basket to clear it.

 

[jready]

Thank you. Is your set up the 15 or 20 gallon kettle? I had to cut the tube for the basket to clear it.

20. This was a split batch 6.5 gallons to two fermentors half London Ale III half Brett C. It's my basic NE IPA recipe

 

[RollE2k]

I have been brewing a few more batches with my system, solid sides basket and ultimate sparge arm instead of whirlpooling. I now do get at least 75 - 80% brewhouse efficiency so i'm quite happy with that. The problem i had with recirculation got better when i started wet millig the grains - but I still have problem with higher gravity brews. I'm thinking the big problem (if one want solid sides) is that 400micron at bottom is to small for that, and i will probably out of curiosity order a basket with either 600 or 700 micron mesh at bottom. If i decide to do, then i'll report on how it works.

 

[Horseflesh]

80% brewhouse efficiency? Wow. I get around 65-70% but I am still tuning. I'm also doing 5 gallon batches in the 20 gallon system which may not help.

Today was my first run with the Ss manifold. It does seem to be an improvement over the simple recirc arm. I got a mash efficiency of 78%, about as high as I normally do with frequent of stirring, while only poking at the mash a few times.

Now I think I understand why the holes are on the top of the manifold.

My first instinct was to push it down into the grain bed... Not a lot, just a half inch or so. I started this way and then poked around with my Thermapen after about 15 minutes. Near the manifold the temperature of the top of the bed was close to the desired mash temperature, but it was 5 degrees cooler when you tested away from the wort returns. (Of course, the deeper you measured, the hotter it got.)

Then I set the manifold on top of the bed, not tucked into the grain at all, and this seemed much better. The top of the grain bed was soon covered in wort. I got distracted and didn't take more temperature readings, but having the hot wort from the bottom of the kettle pooling over the whole bed seems much more likely to provide even heat. Presumably the wort filters down at about the same rate all over.

Hit all my numbers pretty well... finally getting this thing dialed in. Good brew day!

 

[hibbleton]

My first 10 gallon batch this weekend didn't go so well. It was the first time milling my own grain, with the gap set to about 0.04". It was a standard wheat beer, 10lbs pils and 10lbs wheat malt with 14.75 gallons of water. I have the 20 gallon system with hard sided basket and use the recirc arm with about 10" of silicone tubing on the end. I'm not sure if it was the crush of the grain or what, but the element scorched and after the brewday was over I noticed a big pile of what looked close to flour around the element.

Does that sound like too fine a crush? At one point the basket bottom clogged and the mash almost spilled over the top of the kettle; it's possible some grain flowed over the sides of the basket then but I'm not sure. So far I've had stuck recirculations and a scorched element 3 out of 4 brews on this system and I'm wondering if I should just start doing simple infusion mashes without using the pump at all. Would a ULWD element be less likely to burn?

 

[jabba11]

My first 10 gallon batch this weekend didn't go so well. It was the first time milling my own grain, with the gap set to about 0.04". It was a standard wheat beer, 10lbs pils and 10lbs wheat malt with 14.75 gallons of water. I have the 20 gallon system with hard sided basket and use the recirc arm with about 10" of silicone tubing on the end. I'm not sure if it was the crush of the grain or what, but the element scorched and after the brewday was over I noticed a big pile of what looked close to flour around the element.

Does that sound like too fine a crush? At one point the basket bottom clogged and the mash almost spilled over the top of the kettle; it's possible some grain flowed over the sides of the basket then but I'm not sure. So far I've had stuck recirculations and a scorched element 3 out of 4 brews on this system and I'm wondering if I should just start doing simple infusion mashes without using the pump at all. Would a ULWD element be less likely to burn?

if you dig through these posts theres many stories similar to this. its a problem we all share and I have been trying to correct it with fissling with some things. I just recently bought a ripple ULWD element for mine and while I haven't made a wheat beer yet with it I did make a batch that had a 1lb of flaked wheat in it and it seemed to work much better than the one that came with my setup (albeit slower). I also have been recirculating under the basket. I'm not sure that's had any real effect but it has increased my efficiency I believe for some reason.

 

[jabba11]

Heres pics of a setup Ive decided to do to do a quick sparge at the end of my mash process. This is all stuff I had around so it cost me zero dollars. I may eventually hook up a stc-1000 to it and put in a probe in place of the gauge but I wanna see how well it works before I buy anything for it.

 

[Horseflesh]

I'm not sure if it was the crush of the grain or what, but the element scorched ...

Is the scorching all over the element or is it confined to a small area? My element had a hot spot near the base. CBS replaced it and the new element doesn't have the same issue.

 

[RollE2k]

80% brewhouse efficiency? Wow. I get around 65-70% but I am still tuning. I'm also doing 5 gallon batches in the 20 gallon system which may not help.

Today was my first run with the Ss manifold. It does seem to be an improvement over the simple recirc arm. I got a mash efficiency of 78%, about as high as I normally do with frequent of stirring, while only poking at the mash a few times.

Now I think I understand why the holes are on the top of the manifold.

My first instinct was to push it down into the grain bed... Not a lot, just a half inch or so. I started this way and then poked around with my Thermapen after about 15 minutes. Near the manifold the temperature of the top of the bed was close to the desired mash temperature, but it was 5 degrees cooler when you tested away from the wort returns. (Of course, the deeper you measured, the hotter it got.)

Then I set the manifold on top of the bed, not tucked into the grain at all, and this seemed much better. The top of the grain bed was soon covered in wort. I got distracted and didn't take more temperature readings, but having the hot wort from the bottom of the kettle pooling over the whole bed seems much more likely to provide even heat. Presumably the wort filters down at about the same rate all over.

Hit all my numbers pretty well... finally getting this thing dialed in. Good brew day!

I have a 16-gallon kettle, and usually mash with about 40L (10.5gallon) water.
I actually had a very slow circulation when i recently mashed with 13kg of malt... the level inside the malt-basket rised so high that it started to drain over the edge of the basket... but this was no trouble as the malt bed had already formed, so only a few husks got over the edge - which was easily removed before i started the boil.

I usually have VERY clean wort - and no trub that counts at all after mashing - and since i whirlpool after boil, i usuallt don't get any hops pumped out until the very end when draining the kettle.
Actually got better efficiency with the 13kg/38L mash, than with my last 8kg/40L mash. Both were sparged with approx 20L each time - this probably gives the higher efficiency.

The thing is - when not whirlpooling the mash, but rather using Ultimate sparge arm, i not have to rely as much on having high water ratio as some of you guys.

 

[swimIan]

Mill more corse. CBS recommends .045"

 

[swimIan]

Start with a suuuuper slow recirculation and gradually increase. Eyeing no more than a 1-2" drop in wort level on your sit glass or between you're basket and kettle. I also incorporate a 10ish min rest with no pump or heat on after initial dough-in. My mash timer starts after the 10 minutes has elapsed. I check ph etc during this time.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

if you dig through these posts theres many stories similar to this. its a problem we all share and I have been trying to correct it with fissling with some things. I just recently bought a ripple ULWD element for mine and while I haven't made a wheat beer yet with it I did make a batch that had a 1lb of flaked wheat in it and it seemed to work much better than the one that came with my setup (albeit slower). I also have been recirculating under the basket. I'm not sure that's had any real effect but it has increased my efficiency I believe for some reason.

My last two beers had 12+ pounds of wheat malt and either flaked wheat or flaked oats, zero issues with scorching now that I recirculate under the basket. It isn't a solve all but it has 100% solved any scorching issues for me.

 

[jabba11]

My last two beers had 12+ pounds of wheat malt and either flaked wheat or flaked oats, zero issues with scorching now that I recirculate under the basket. It isn't a solve all but it has 100% solved any scorching issues for me.

Like I said I haven't done a wheat with my new element but it didn't really help before with my old one or at least it didn't seem like it did much. I still had some scorching and a lot of build up. I did try and run the recirc as high as I felt I could this time but Ill keep people posted next time I brew a wheat beer.