Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

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Is anyone experiencing 3.5 hour mash days and 85% efficiency like the website claims ?

http://cobrewingsystems.com/complete-pro-level-nano-brewer-down-under-single-vessel-brewing-system/

For a simple brew - single infusion, no mashout, no hopstand - I can fill the fermenter in 3.5 hrs. and get started on cleanup.

I regularly get 82% - 85% efficiency (post mash). I do stir the mash alot and I squeeze or press the grain bed with a 5 gal bucket lid during the drain. That speeds up the draining a bit and helps me collect a bit more wort.
 
I have a 5 hour brew day including all cleanup. My last efficiency was 84%, before that I was in the mid 70s. Not sure what changed.

@jready -- are the casters in your picture an easy screw-in replacement for the feet? Got a link?
 
Brewed a double IPA today and discovered a few things that might interest others. The recipe was 16.25 lbs of grain with a 90 min boil so my water volume was a bit high. The manifold from SS BrewTech worked well again. I did discover that it has to be on the top of the grain bed. I had it about an inch down and I nearly ran the element dry. In the picture I've included you can see how the manifold does a decent job of evenly recirculating. The other thing I've been doing is putting the lid on during mash with a towel to keep the heat in. I think with the manifold this really helps keep a constant temp all around. The one drawback I discovered was I think my hop filter is throwing off my boil. Because the filter is over the heat element the boil looks more violent than it is so I've been dialing down the heat. The result is my evaporation estimates are off. I need to work around this.

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I have a 5 hour brew day including all cleanup. My last efficiency was 84%, before that I was in the mid 70s. Not sure what changed.

@jready -- are the casters in your picture an easy screw-in replacement for the feet? Got a link?


Yes! I just got them. So much better than the cinder blocks I was using. Hopefully this link works. I did two batches yesterday about 11 hours in all efficiency on first batch was 80% second was a five gallon and I miscalculated the water ended up with 7 gallons instead of six after the boil so missed my OG by .1

Schioppa GLEED 512 UPE G L12 Series 5" x 1-1/4" Diameter Swivel Caster with Total Lock Brake, Non-Marking Polyurethane Precision Ball Bearing Wheel, 3/8" Diameter x 1" Length Threaded Stem, 325 lb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PS77274/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Do you have a sight glass on there? Can I see a pic of it? Did that come from CO or did you source that yourself?


If you are asking me yes I do and it is a source of frustration. I am thinking of ordering another kettle now sight glass and a whirlpool port. Maybe 5 gal bigger too.
 
Where did you source it? Why is it a source of frustration?


Leaks like a sieve. Hard to get it screwed in right hard to clean and provides no useful information. Other than that it's great!🤓

I have wood rule from Home Depot with markers for each gallon much easier to use. I got lazy Saturday on the second batch and just eyeballed it. Not a solid plan
 
Is it DIY or did you buy it? I have the laser etchings on the inside of mine but and extra tri clover fitting I've thought of using for a sight glass.
 
Is it DIY or did you buy it? I have the laser etchings on the inside of mine but and extra tri clover fitting I've thought of using for a sight glass.


It was standard when I got it back in March. Laser etched sounds wonderful. The sight glass is just one more thing to clean/break.
 
Well 40lbs is too much for the 20 gallon system. The 25 probably could've made it work but I gave up before the mash was over and cut my losses. The mash was a brick no matter what I did. I had 17 gallons of water in with 40# of grain and 1# of rice hulls and just couldn't get anything to move.

So far 32# is my top limit.
 
So two major brew fails in a row again and I'm about to throw the towel in on this thing. This was a batch I've brewed once already so not sure why it scorched again but it did. Crush was checked with feelers at .045. Did a 120* rest without the element being on, hit the power button to heat up to 154* to mash, and it was instant burn smell. Dumped the kettle to find this for the second time in a row. Any ideas why I'm getting oatmeal outside my basket? I triple checked the crush setting and this happened with the 40# batch also. Same thing, as soon as I hit the power to the element it burned, emptied it to find this in the bottom of the kettle. I'm pretty much at my wit's end today after dumping 70 pounds of grain in two days.

21# Maris otter
4# carapils
4# white wheat
2# flaked oats
.5# rice hulls

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Are you crushing the oats? If so that could be it. Do you have the sight glass installed? The only way I can see it scorching is because it is dry. I need to check my notes but that sounds like too much grain. There is about 4g dead space so you're working with a 16g limit. I'd use 15g in those online tools that predict max mash size.
 
Are you crushing the oats? If so that could be it. Do you have the sight glass installed? The only way I can see it scorching is because it is dry. I need to check my notes but that sounds like too much grain. There is about 4g dead space so you're working with a 16g limit. I'd use 15g in those online tools that predict max mash size.

No, not crushing the oats. I constantly watch the level outside the basket and if it gets down from even I shut the element off. Lately I sit in my chair right at the kettle and watch it, turn the element on and off but I wasn't even that far yet. I had literally just turned the element on and could smell the burnt wort instantly. I rarely leave it on during the mash anymore. It doesn't really need much heat to stay at desired temperature. This had exactly 16 gallons of water still in the kettle.

Not understanding where the corn meal looking crap came from.

I have one last shot I'm giving this thing before I start a 3 vessel 1 bbl build. Ordered a chugger max and going to run a T fitting to keep the bottom circulating as I'm feeding the top. Should keep anything from sitting still and keep better temp readings. If I can't get 5 consistent brews it'll be up for sale and I'll build a 1 barrel system.
 
Slow your pump way down.
I'm trying a tee on mine soon.
What about an overflow pipe in the center similar to the grainfather?
 
No, not crushing the oats. I constantly watch the level outside the basket and if it gets down from even I shut the element off. Lately I sit in my chair right at the kettle and watch it, turn the element on and off but I wasn't even that far yet. I had literally just turned the element on and could smell the burnt wort instantly. I rarely leave it on during the mash anymore. It doesn't really need much heat to stay at desired temperature. This had exactly 16 gallons of water still in the kettle.

Not understanding where the corn meal looking crap came from.

I have one last shot I'm giving this thing before I start a 3 vessel 1 bbl build. Ordered a chugger max and going to run a T fitting to keep the bottom circulating as I'm feeding the top. Should keep anything from sitting still and keep better temp readings. If I can't get 5 consistent brews it'll be up for sale and I'll build a 1 barrel system.

I'm not an expert but the first thing I find concerning is the recipe.

21# Maris otter
4# carapils
4# white wheat
2# flaked oats
.5# rice hulls

I went back and looked at my notes and for my 20g system the most I've been able to do is 25.75# of grains. And I felt like THAT was pushing it. I used 17.4g of water. So with about the same amount of water you had about 5.25# more grain. Unless our baskets are different I have no idea how you jammed all that grain in there.

And something I didn't note before, not only are you using 2# of oats but also 4# of white wheat. That means about 19% of your grain bill consists of stuff that is known to cause stuck sparge issue. That seems high by itself but I've also heard that some base grains are more prone to cause sparge issues and Maris Otter might be one. I wonder if this were a regular mash tun if you'd be able to drain at all.

But, just with the wheat and oats alone I think .5# of rice hulls is no where near what you'd need. If this were a 5g recipe I'd still say start with a full pound of rice hulls. I tried to find a source on how much to add but nothing came up. I think someone once told me 5% of your grain bill which would at least get you to 1.5# but I can't see even that being enough.

Speaking of which, are you rinsing the rice hulls? I rinse mine to avoid them messing with my absorption estimates. Plus they are very dusty and can really muck things up.

My last two brews with the 20g system were both 5g batches that had 18# and 17.75# grain bills. If your recipe were scaled in half you'd end up with 15.5# grain bill which is close to the batches I just did. Given the wheat and oats you might need to consider this a 5g batch.

I just remembered that I did a wheat wine a few months ago. I had 13# wheat, 6# pale, 1# crystal 40. My notes say I used 1# of rice hulls. I don't think things were perfect but I didn't have major issues.

One last thought, before brewing that wheat wine I think I posted to ask about doing a step mash and the rest period. Someone warned me to not do it. They tried it and it was a gooey mess. Maybe that is what you are seeing?

Again, I'm no expert, just throwing stuff out there. Good luck.
 
I haven't had issues with scorching so I'm not much help here. Only thing I notice that seems different than mine (aside from the element change) is your dip tube. Mine points straight down. Could it be turning it sideways is causing the issue? My theory here is that we all probably get some dust that makes its way through the grain bed but if it's constantly recirculating all of the wort it eventually cleans itself up and stays in the bed. With that slight turn I'm wondering if you have some dust that is just sitting down there and waiting to burn. I maybe way off but that's my only guess
 
The CBS docs advise a beta-glucan rest when using unmodified grains. The rest at 120F should have reduced gumminess. It may not have been enough though.

If there was immediate scorching, then that must mean the pump was still outrunning the mash. The rest might need to be longer. When I looked it up I found 15-20 minutes at 113F was supposed to be optimum. But there might have just been too much grain, too.
 
Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.
 
The CBS docs advise a beta-glucan rest when using unmodified grains. The rest at 120F should have reduced gumminess. It may not have been enough though.

If there was immediate scorching, then that must mean the pump was still outrunning the mash. The rest might need to be longer. When I looked it up I found 15-20 minutes at 113F was supposed to be optimum. But there might have just been too much grain, too.

Here is the link where someone said 120 is bad and maybe 105 would work if you do it at all.
 
This was the reference I used:

https://byo.com/mead/item/1497-the-science-of-step-mashing

It lists the beta glucanase range as 95-131F with peak activity at 113F and denaturing at 140F. So, I did it at 113F and didn't have any trouble lautering... but I also only had about 8% oats in that batch.

I've looked for a chart showing activity as a function of temperature and can't find one. If the "activity" range is 95-113F it seems like 120F ought to be in the sweet spot or close to it.
 
I did a protein rest at 120 for a golden sour that I recently brewed and I would have to agree that the head retention was minimal. When I went to aerate with O2 the bubbles would not form. We will see what it does the the final product in a year or so. It had oats in it and I did have a lot of sediment too. Wouldn't say the element scorched but it did require me to pull it out and scrub more than usual.
 
Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.

Another issue might be with the mash basket itself. I bought the single vessel system in 2015. At that time, the solid side basket was not an option. From what I read on this thread, most people with the solid side basket have to throttle the pump way down to avoid starving the flow. I've never had that problem with the all mesh basket. 15% flaked products and I run the pump wide open with no problem. Sometimes "new tech" is not "good tech". Perhaps slow flow and high % of flaked stuff allows "stuff" to settle on the element and creates scorching.
 
Another issue might be with the mash basket itself. I bought the single vessel system in 2015. At that time, the solid side basket was not an option. From what I read on this thread, most people with the solid side basket have to throttle the pump way down to avoid starving the flow. I've never had that problem with the all mesh basket. 15% flaked products and I run the pump wide open with no problem. Sometimes "new tech" is not "good tech". Perhaps slow flow and high % of flaked stuff allows "stuff" to settle on the element and creates scorching.

Pretty sure this is what happened to me.

They canceled my order for the new pump. Reordered at another place that hopefully has it in stock.

Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.

I don't think so. I talked to Kal about it. He's thinking the same as above. Crap settled on the element and not enough movement below the basket.
 
Pretty sure this is what happened to me.

They canceled my order for the new pump. Reordered at another place that hopefully has it in stock.



I don't think so. I talked to Kal about it. He's thinking the same as above. Crap settled on the element and not enough movement below the basket.

Have you contacted Tim (CBS owner) regarding some of your problems? I wonder if he could provide some assistance on the matter and evaluate your grain bill to tell you if you are pushing the limits of the 20 gallon kettle. I would like to know what Tim's opinion is as his suggested grain bill limit is for the 15 gallon and 20 gallon system. After reading this forum, I have no idea why a 10 gallon system is even offered. Nobody here seems to have a 10 gallon.
 
With everyone on here seeming to push the limits of grain bill capacity with every version they have I don't understand why you all didn't order a bigger system??? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Saving $150 seems kinda shortsighted to me.
 
With everyone on here seeming to push the limits of grain bill capacity with every version they have I don't understand why you all didn't order a bigger system??? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Saving $150 seems kinda shortsighted to me.

I haven't used mine yet but I just received a 20 gallon unit. I plan on big grain bills with 5 gallon batches and more session strength beers I'll double the output. No sense in trying to kill my unit in an attempt to see what she can handle imo.
 
With everyone on here seeming to push the limits of grain bill capacity with every version they have I don't understand why you all didn't order a bigger system??? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Saving $150 seems kinda shortsighted to me.

I think that's very true. When I brewed with my old 3v gravity rig, I almost always brewed 5 gal batches - and figured I'd do the same with the CBS rig, but wanted the flexibility to do an occasional 10 gal batch. I bought the 20 gal system and now usually brew 10 gal batches for tried and true recipes. For a 1 off brew, I'll keep it at a 5 gal limit. The 20 gal system works great for both.

I think that if you want to do a really big beer, regardless of your system, you're going to have to do some "work arounds". That's just part of the fun and challenge of home brewing. It's not a big deal to hold back some water in a cooler to sparge with if that's what you have to do.
 
With everyone on here seeming to push the limits of grain bill capacity with every version they have I don't understand why you all didn't order a bigger system??? Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Saving $150 seems kinda shortsighted to me.

I bought the biggest one offered at the time. Should've probably pieced mine together to fit my needs better. In talks with spike and arbor fab to go to a custom 30 gallon kettle set up.
 
I bought the 1bbl pot and basket from CO. I couldn't afford the whole 1bbl system at once. Its taken me almost 2 yrs to get the system together. A stint in the hospital didn't help. But I'm planning on brewing on super bowl weekend for the 1st time!
 
I bought the 1bbl pot and basket from CO. I couldn't afford the whole 1bbl system at once. Its taken me almost 2 yrs to get the system together. A stint in the hospital didn't help. But I'm planning on brewing on super bowl weekend for the 1st time!

Not to clutter this thread up but do you have a build thread?
 
Er I think a pic here or there. When I get everything final assembled I'll shoot some pics. Right now there are still parts everywhere.

Being a native New Englander I took a week off for the super bowl. Partly for the game but also for finally having everything getting it together and brewing.
 
Is anyone experiencing 3.5 hour mash days and 85% efficiency like the website claims ?

http://cobrewingsystems.com/complete-pro-level-nano-brewer-down-under-single-vessel-brewing-system/

Just brewed a barley wine yesterday and after I finally updated my spreadsheet to gather some statistics. My latest calculations for pre-boil efficiency (percentage of max) were:
69.87%
76.03%
74.35%
71.55%
79.69%

Looking at brew house efficiency where I compare starting gravity to potential max I see:
59.60%
66.26%
63.66%
67.87%
68.15%

Looking at duration, if I start at when I prep the yeast (which is my first step of the day) and look at when I finish the PBW bath (last step of day) I see:
6:30:00
7:00:00 (long mash)
5:30:00
5:45:00
5:30:00

But if I look at duration from mash start to fermenter fill then I see:
3:19:00
3:43:00
3:08:00
3:51:00
3:45:00

I'm surprised at the statistics for the last brew since I expected low numbers for the barley wine. For the percentages I'm probably not doing the calculation correctly as it's just a comparison against the max PPG. I'm slowly updating the spreadsheet so I might adjust the calculations later.
 
I have been learning a lot from these posts. Thanks for sharing your good and bad.

Reading about the issues with scorching, I want switch out the 5500 W straight element that came with the CBS 20 gal Nano kettle and basket that I bought. I have had the kettle for awhile, but just now getting around to finishing my panel, table and fittings.

So I am looking at the 304 SS one that ebrew sells and the nickel-chromium stainless steel (804) alloy theelectricbrewery sells.

Questions:
1. which is better- 304ss vs 804 ? They both say they have SS bases.
2. Would 4500W be adequate for up to 10 gallon batches on boil ? The 4500W has less watts per SI than the 5500w.

Thanks, Bill
 
Hi guys haven't been here for awhile thought Id check in and see what is what. As a guess now Im gonna say I have maybe 20 brew days on my system and have been happy with it so far. Im very interested in the brewtech manifold as getting the wort to recirc is pretty tough. I don't believe the scorching issues are element related at least in my opinion. I have had ONE scorch and it was on a wheat beer with almost 50% wheat. I did do a sac rest at 120 for 10 minutes and used a lot of rice hulls but my flow rate was imply too slow or there may have been a "hole" right over the element. At any rate I noticed an unsually large amount of material after whirlpooling. I never smelled the scorch and I don't think it ruined anything honestly. The issue arose im almost certain because of a combination of crush/flow rate. Crud simply filtered onto the element and burned on. I have done several wheat beers but did lower my crush (1.040) some last time and so I may need to adjust crush when I do a wheat beer.
 
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