Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[wildseedgrrrl]

I'm with you @jabba11 I clean everything when I'm done and it does add about 30-45 minutes to my day, but with the recessed areas because of the welded ports I feel like there are too many areas for unwanted growth. At the same time I'm usually done with brewing in 3.5 hours which is a good trade off. The added time to clean is worth it. My whirlpool arm arrived and I'm headed to the brewery supply place to get a valve this week.

 

[NYY]

Finally used my system for the first time. This was also my first all grain batch. Overall the system worked great. Very easy to use and work through all the steps. That being said, I had a couple of challenges with my process. First, it looks like I overshot my initial water volume by 1.25 gallons. This had a big impact on my gravity. I did a water test before my first batch and measured a boil off rate of approx 1.75/hour. However, this being my first batch I was not sure how vigorous to boil. For some reason a power percentage of 90 seemed right to me. I know 60 % is a recommended starting point but at this rate, it struggled to keep a boil.

The estimated boil off rate per colorados water calc spreadsheet showed 1.65 for my 15 gallon system.

Once I started my first batch, the wort boil seemed much better at a lower percentage 65-70 %. So I went with that. The problem appears that my boil off rate was more like .90 gallons/hour. As opposed to 1.75.

Has anybody else seen a boil off rate this low in comparison to the estimates from colorado? Does .90 seem to small?

 

[jgoldsworthy]

It's been a long time coming, but I finally brewed my 1st batch (NB Caribou Slobber) in my CBS kettle last night! I have the 10G kettle w/no stand. I have my own controller from my previous RIMS system, which I recycled. Overall, I feel things went well. I did have a few challenges, which I hope to work through.

1) Like many here, I was not able to maintain a "suspended" mash. However, I was able to throttle the flow to just the correct amount so that I was recirculating the same amount that I was sucking out the bottom. To make this easier, I used a clip on the sight gauge. If the water kept dropping, I'd throttle back. If the level climbed, I opened it up a bit. Now, if you don't have a sight gauge, that technique might be difficult.

2) It didn't dawn on me until the mash was over to check the temp of the actual mash bed. I wanted a temp of 153, and that's what I set on the PID. Unfortunately, the mash bed in the basket was only 149 at the end of my 60 minutes. Sounds like I'm going to have a drier beer than intended. That aside, it makes sense now that I think about it. The element is on the bottom, as is the temp probe. I've got 153 degree water on the bottom, which I suck out via the pump, where it loses a few degrees moving through the hoses/pump, and likely returned to the top well below my intended mash temp. :-( Doh!! Something I'm going to spend a bit more time evaluating and experimenting during my next batch to make sure the mash is at the right temp and not rely on the PID temp.

3) Not really a problem, but an observation. It's also not something most people will need to deal with since they have the stand. Man, that basket with 10# of soaked grain is heavy! I had my kettle at waist height on a table. It was tough lifting that basket high enough (probably neck high) to get it out of the kettle to drain. Any larger than 10G and there's almost no way to man handle the basket!

4) Still working on dialing in my losses. For those who are wondering, I after the boil started, I lowered the output to 55% (bumped to 100% when I added my immersion chiller then lowered again at boil). I ended up with 1 gallon evaporated in 60 min. Then I ended up with about .3 to .4 gallon (guestimation) less once in the fermenter. I chalk that up to kettle deadspace and cooling shrinkage.

I'm looking forward to my next brew session and working through these bugs.

 

[sabo38]

I agree 100% with #3! I saw that somebody in this post had the pulley system on a track so that it would slide out for easy removal. I wish I would have seen that before I ordered mine.

 

[molson]

2) It didn't dawn on me until the mash was over to check the temp of the actual mash bed. I wanted a temp of 153, and that's what I set on the PID. Unfortunately, the mash bed in the basket was only 149 at the end of my 60 minutes. Sounds like I'm going to have a drier beer than intended. That aside, it makes sense now that I think about it. The element is on the bottom, as is the temp probe. I've got 153 degree water on the bottom, which I suck out via the pump, where it loses a few degrees moving through the hoses/pump, and likely returned to the top well below my intended mash temp. :-( Doh!! Something I'm going to spend a bit more time evaluating and experimenting during my next batch to make sure the mash is at the right temp and not rely on the PID temp.

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on this system, however this is the one thing that I've been wondering about. Because of the placement of the probe the system isn't measuring the temperature of the mash, its measuring the temperature of the water at the bottom by the heating element. How are you guys dealing with this? By setting the PID up a few degrees above desired mash? How then do you measure the actual mash temperature, by sticking a probe thermometer into the middle of the mash? I was thinking of maybe using a wire probe like this one: http://www.thermoworks.com/PRB-T-37X-T
Thoughts? Thanks for the help, this thread has been extremely useful during my decision making process!

 

[andrewmaixner]

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on this system, however this is the one thing that I've been wondering about. Because of the placement of the probe the system isn't measuring the temperature of the mash, its measuring the temperature of the water at the bottom by the heating element. How are you guys dealing with this? By setting the PID up a few degrees above desired mash? How then do you measure the actual mash temperature, by sticking a probe thermometer into the middle of the mash? I was thinking of maybe using a wire probe like this one: http://www.thermoworks.com/PRB-T-37X-T
Thoughts? Thanks for the help, this thread has been extremely useful during my decision making process!

I'll have to remember to check my center-of-mash temperature on my next brew, as my setup also has this style of equipment configuration, with the probe/thermowell even with the element and 3 inches apart, under the false bottom. (Only used my system once so far)

Maybe this is why the UniBrau eBIAB systems put the temperature probe inline with a T pipe adapter, at the point of liquid return to the mash.

 

[jabba11]

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on this system, however this is the one thing that I've been wondering about. Because of the placement of the probe the system isn't measuring the temperature of the mash, its measuring the temperature of the water at the bottom by the heating element. How are you guys dealing with this? By setting the PID up a few degrees above desired mash? How then do you measure the actual mash temperature, by sticking a probe thermometer into the middle of the mash? I was thinking of maybe using a wire probe like this one: http://www.thermoworks.com/PRB-T-37X-T
Thoughts? Thanks for the help, this thread has been extremely useful during my decision making process!

Rate of flow is going to play a part in this as well Id say. For me I didn't see any real difference (I had mine running pretty fast as I only had 17 lbs of grain and 17 gallons of water) in the temp at the probe and in the mash. As I recall it was maybe .3 degrees difference which is none really. I did make sure my probe was reading what my thermometer was reading as well in my test run and it was dead on. If you have to throttle way back then I can see how the time in the tubing etc may make it a bit cooler plus the top of the mash may be a little cooler as well. if you can run it wider open this isn't gonna be as big a factor. it would be wise to check it every time and adjust accordingly as I thin kit will be different with every batch. If you make the same batch a lot you can take notes and will have a starting point.

 

[jabba11]

I'll have to remember to check my center-of-mash temperature on my next brew, as my setup also has this style of equipment configuration, with the probe/thermowell even with the element and 3 inches apart, under the false bottom. (Only used my system once so far)

Maybe this is why the UniBrau eBIAB systems put the temperature probe inline with a T pipe adapter, at the point of liquid return to the mash.

if one wanted to you could do this with our systems as well. Of course theres a cost associated with that but it would be simple to do and maybe something to consider if I find it a constant issue that's affecting my ability to repeat my process accurately etc

 

[Horseflesh]

I think I have my finger on the trigger too, so I'm also interested in this issue.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I think I have my finger on the trigger too, so I'm also interested in this issue.

I wouldn't worry about it, if it is actually an issue at all, there would be several very easy fixes.
If this is what you want, pull that trigger

 

[Horseflesh]

I wouldn't say I'm worried, just interested in seeing more peoples' findings. If there's a beneficial tweak that I don't have to develop myself, that will be good to know. Every rig needs a little TLC.

 

[jimyson]

Yes it moves out the way. I mounted it on two TV arms and obviously its being helped by the pully system that I attached to it and the ceiling. Ill take more pics when I get a chance. I test ran it today and I may move to a 6 inch fan. Ive read a helpful thread on it and felt that with such a short run etc that I would be okay as far as "drippage". I think I was wrong. Go big right away do yourself a favor

Don't quote me but I think you will always have condensation drips. That's why condensate hoods are built. You may just want to focus on how to divert it so it doesn't drop in the pot. I think having the fan directly over will make that a challenge.

 

[jabba11]

Don't quote me but I think you will always have condensation drips. That's why condensate hoods are built. You may just want to focus on how to divert it so it doesn't drop in the pot. I think having the fan directly over will make that a challenge.

in actual usage it wasn't as bad as the test and yes it was easy to position the hood so it dripped onto a towel I had spread out on the floor. Like I said theres a thread on it here in the forums thats extensive. Theres formulas etc. Youre right in that a condensate hood has a channel that usually directs it away. I still think going as big as you can is the best idea right from the start although there are considerations to make such as drafting etc if you have gas etc.

 

[Howhownow]

I just use one of the plastic rope totes with a duct line running out of the side near the top, 415 CFM inline fan. I don't even run at full blast during boil, no drips. I have a fairly short run, though.

 

[jabba11]

FWIW mine doesn't drip from UNDER the hood it is dripping from the fan housing. under the hood is dry as a bone. Before I do another run I'm going to try sealing the fan and see what that does

 

[molson]

I wouldn't say I'm worried, just interested in seeing more peoples' findings. If there's a beneficial tweak that I don't have to develop myself, that will be good to know. Every rig needs a little TLC.

I think I'm going to still get the system and just buy a thermometer with a waterproof probe that I can stick in the middle of the mash. Then I can adjust the PID if needed to ensure the mash temperature is accurate. This might be a good option:

http://www.thermoworks.com/ChefAlarm

and use this probe:

http://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1002X-NP

 

[jabba11]

I think I'm going to still get the system and just buy a thermometer with a waterproof probe that I can stick in the middle of the mash. Then I can adjust the PID if needed to ensure the mash temperature is accurate. This might be a good option:

http://www.thermoworks.com/ChefAlarm

and use this probe:

http://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1002X-NP

sounds like a decent idea. You could attach the probe to the center of the basket on an adjustable rod or something as well to hold it in place. Not sure its something Im that concerned about at this point but I cant find fault with your idea.

 

[jimyson]

This is how I have my probe setup though I'm wondering if it is better on the output of the kettle. I just picked up a 1/4" compression connector.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1467858567.666115.jpg

 

[sgraham602]

I agree 100% with #3! I saw that somebody in this post had the pulley system on a track so that it would slide out for easy removal. I wish I would have seen that before I ordered mine.

True! I had the trolley system added to mine, which has been great! I've thought the same thing as I slid the basket away from the kettle..."there's no way I'd lift 20+ lbs of wet grain by myself". The only draw back is that it's not weighted very well. It doesn't want to tip right over when you extend the basket out, but it doesn't take much extra movement to want to start it that way! I tossed a few bags of sand on the bottom of the stand and solved that problem pretty quickly.

 

[30Bones]

I am glad I already own a chugger pump. When I ordered this system before it went retail it was still being sold with a chugger pump and I ordered it to have a back up. This pump now listed on the site is somewhat frustrating to those that thought they were getting a quality pump, not some cheap piece. I can't even use the tri clamps since they were welded on. More stuff I need to buy for my current chugger head.

I have yet to be able to use the system as I am awaiting to move into a new house. Everything else seems very well done. This pump has left me a bit upset. My invoice said CHUGGER on backorder.

View attachment 1467989415010.jpg

 

[akthor]

I added an overhead electric hoist instead of the pulley system.

Mines a 1 bbl system so I wasn't wanting to be hefting a basket of all that grain out by hand.

With a 25% off coupon it was like $99 at Harbor Freight.

True! I had the trolley system added to mine, which has been great! I've thought the same thing as I slid the basket away from the kettle..."there's no way I'd lift 20+ lbs of wet grain by myself". The only draw back is that it's not weighted very well. It doesn't want to tip right over when you extend the basket out, but it doesn't take much extra movement to want to start it that way! I tossed a few bags of sand on the bottom of the stand and solved that problem pretty quickly.

 

[jabba11]

I am glad I already own a chugger pump. When I ordered this system before it went retail it was still being sold with a chugger pump and I ordered it to have a back up. This pump now listed on the site is somewhat frustrating to those that thought they were getting a quality pump, not some cheap piece. I can't even use the tri clamps since they were welded on. More stuff I need to buy for my current chugger head.

I have yet to be able to use the system as I am awaiting to move into a new house. Everything else seems very well done. This pump has left me a bit upset. My invoice said CHUGGER on backorder.

Did this just arrive? Im gonna have a real problem if this is the pump that comes with my nano home as this is not what was sold to me

 

[30Bones]

Did this just arrive? Im gonna have a real problem if this is the pump that comes with my nano home as this is not what was sold to me

Yeah just arrived in the mail today. I emailed Tim, hope they want this back bc I have no use for it and would like $100 back and some TC flanges to make me feel right.

 

[jabba11]

also I spoke to Tim last week and he said nothing about substituting or anything he simply said they would ship direct form chugger sometime in the next week.

 

[jabba11]

Yeah just arrived in the mail today. I emailed Tim, hope they want this back bc I have no use for it and would like $100 back and some TC flanges to make me feel right.

im gonna want more than 100 bucks back fwiw more like 140 bucks. You don't make substitutions without asking and quite simply put it is not LEGAL for them to do so.

 

[jabba11]

Yeah just arrived in the mail today. I emailed Tim, hope they want this back bc I have no use for it and would like $100 back and some TC flanges to make me feel right.

let me know if you hear back from him. MIne is supposed to arrive today and I will go ahead and assume (hopefully wrongly) that I have the same thing. it was supposed to ship direct form chugger but I see it ship from CO...

 

[30Bones]

let me know if you hear back from him. MIne is supposed to arrive today and I will go ahead and assume (hopefully wrongly) that I have the same thing. it was supposed to ship direct form chugger but I see it ship from CO...

Sending it back Monday, waiting on the amount I will be credited.

Chugger is suffering from some major quality/certification problems right now, they haven't had a pump in stock for 2 months and we can't even get a status from them about when the issues will be corrected. That obviously put us in a tough position.

The pumps we switched to have the exact same specs for flow rate etc. the difference is in the motor (the head is the same), the new ones are brushless with built in thermal overload protection, they last about 10 times longer than a motor with brushes. We ran that pump for 24 hrs a day for a week straight in our shop to test it. So while it is smaller (because of the brushless design) there is no functional difference.

 

[jabba11]

Sending it back Monday, waiting on the amount I will be credited.

Then they should have TOLD us and gave us options. Not just switched it. Personally get me a march pump then. Not some piece of Chinese junk that's been fabricated with no known history etc as being reliable etc. Also these pumps cost HALF of what we "paid" for. Sorry if I sound a little angry...its because I am. I already have a chugger pump and have been using it to run mine.

 

[30Bones]

Then they should have TOLD us and gave us options. Not just switched it. Personally get me a march pump then. Not some piece of Chinese junk that's been fabricated with no known history etc as being reliable etc. Also these pumps cost HALF of what we "paid" for. Sorry if I sound a little angry...its because I am. I already have a chugger pump and have been using it to run mine.

I am right there with you. Tim told me $130 is the credit. Seems fair. I agree, take the hit and make a deal with March.

Oddly my box of tri clamp parts included a 3/4" NPT threaded triclamp.....only place that works is on the inlet of a......you guessed it. Chugger pump head.

 

[sabo38]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468029992.822541.jpg
PID set at 151. Top of mash is pretty close. Pump output is around 3/4 with good whirl pooling around top of mash. This is 29.4 pounds of grain. Started with 14.5 gallons of water. I am basically going to fly sparge once I lift the basket so I get 14 gallons of wort. This is a bells two hearted clone. Plenty of hop absorption. Still not quite sure on boil off. I'm guessing 1 gallon an hour. Wish me luck! Lol
It seems the longer it circulates the better. It's really spinning after the mash hour is over. I may let it sit and spin for about 15 minutes just for the heck of it.