Two Hearted Ale Clone

[mr_javi]

For my first brew day tomorrow I will be doing. A partial grain Bells Two Hearted Ale Clone. I have attached the recipe. The shop was out of Centennial, so we substituted Falconer's Flight 7 c's. I don't really know what effect this will have. Any thoughts? This things that seem odd based on all my reading is the 45 min boil with no aroma hops. Just Bittering, Flavoring, and dry hopping. Also, they have me adding the LME after the boil.

 

[griffi]

You'll probably make a good beer, but it won't be a 2 hearted clone IMO. The key to 2 hearted is the all centennial hops: bittering, aroma, and dry hops... just my .02

 

[enkamania]

Here is the clone from Zymurgy http://imgur.com/r/Homebrewing/bfITU9X

 

[mr_javi]

I was able to get the Centennial at another store. I'm gonna use it and save the FF for something else.

 

[mr_javi]

Yeah. The recipe I have had no where near that much Centennial. Oh well, we'll see how it turns out.

 

[griffi]

Yeah. The recipe I have had no where near that much Centennial. Oh well, we'll see how it turns out.

If you want that 2 hearted taste you're better off with the centennial. Just use enough to get 55 IBU . I wouldn't worry about it if you only put an oz or two in dry hops.

 

[Oldskewl]

I recently brewed this AG clone but used 1 oz dry hop. I would probably use 1.5 - 2 oz next attempt. It turned out well. Watch your AA%. Mine were a bit higher and moved my bittering to 45 min to reduce bittering.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=91488

 

[catdaddy66]

While Falconers Flight is a great variety it won't give the flavor in 2 Hearted. Centennial is the only choice for that.

Do two batches, one with each hop and the same grain bill. Both should be awesome!

 

[IslandLizard]

Very odd how they build these recipes.

Vienna is a base malt, it should be mashed, not steeped. Especially when you have 2 pounds of it. So do a mini mash with the Vienna, Crystal 10, and Caramalt.

You can bitter with any clean bittering hop, such as Warrior, Magnum, etc. Centennial is a bit of a waste at that point as not much of her flavor and aroma will be carried through to the end. Since I have several pounds of Cluster I've been using her for bittering Centennial beers and like the results. Save your Centennial for the (last) boil addition, the whirlpool, and dry hops of course.

Here's my current 2-Hearted clone hop schedule:
60' Bittering hop - 38 IBU. You can do a 45 minute boil it will be fine.
1 oz Centennial at 10 minutes - 10 IBU
Flameout (0 minutes) - chill to 190°F. Then add:
1 oz Centennial. Let hopstand* for 30 minutes - ~7 IBU
After 15 minutes hopstand, your wort should be around 170°F. Add an additional:
1 oz Centennial. Let hopstand* for the remaining 15 minutes - ~3 IBU

*A "hopstand" should be agitated a bit. Stir up the wort every 3-5 minutes.

Chill, rack to fermentor, oxygenate and pitch yeast. I prefer WY1272 for this ale, which is what Bell's using. But US-05 is fine too. Make sure to rehydrate it according to Safale's instructions before pitching. Ferment at a steady 67°F, no higher! When I ferment this with WY1272 I keep it at 65F until almost done, 4-6 days, then let it warm to 70F and keep it there for 2 days to condition.

Dry hop:
1 oz Centennial. Dry hop for 5 days when fermentation is done. Do not use a secondary. Then cold crash, rack, and package.

 

[IslandLizard]

Adding 1/3-1/2 of the extract at the beginning of the boil and the rest (1/2-2/3) after flameout is customary. It may avoid potential scorching and prevents over-caramelization making for a fresher tasting beer. More so when doing partial (non full volume) boils.

I just noticed the instructions mention to pour the boiling wort into your fermentor. That maybe OK when it's plastic (bucket or no-chill container), but surely is NOT OK when it's glass! Ouch!

 

[BrewerBrad82]

I would not trust anything written in Comic Sans...

 

[Chiller_ale]

The Vienna does seem a bit weird for an extract batch (seems like a mini mash). Your 9.9 lb of dme will get you to 1.076 and 7.4 % abv already.


I just made a clone that came out great.

9.15 lbs gold lme

Specialty Grain 1 lbs caramel 40

BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
0.75 oz. Centennial (60 min)
1 oz. Centennial (20 min)
2 oz. Centennial (5 min)

DRY HOPS
1 oz. Centennial – one week before bottling day

us-05


When I was doing stove top I would just do the specialty grains in a separate pot with 1 gal or so, while the main boil kettle was coming up to temp. The smaller pot makes it easier to keep the temp in the 155f range for 20 min.


check out http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/
to see OG of recipes.

 

[Chiller_ale]

I just noticed the instructions mention to pour the boiling wort into your fermentor. That maybe OK when it's plastic (bucket or no-chill container), but surely is NOT OK when it's glass! Ouch!

Wow that is bad. I would not put anything above 140F into plastic either (could do this for no chill but that more advanced). You should put your pot in a sink/tub cold water bath to cool down first.

Best beginner vid I have seen.

 

[IslandLizard]

The Vienna does seem a bit weird for an extract batch (seems like a mini mash). Your 9.9 lb of dme will get you to 1.076 and 7.4 % abv already.


I just made a clone that came out great.

9.15 lbs gold lme

Specialty Grain 1 lbs caramel 40

BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
0.75 oz. Centennial (60 min)
1 oz. Centennial (20 min)
2 oz. Centennial (5 min)

DRY HOPS
1 oz. Centennial – one week before bottling day

us-05


When I was doing stove top I would just do the specialty grains in a separate pot with 1 gal or so, while the main boil kettle was coming up to temp. The smaller pot makes it easier to keep the temp in the 155f range for 20 min.


check out http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/
to see OG of recipes.

I would guess the extract is LME since the prepackaged cans are typically 3.3#.

Steeping grains in a gallon of water at 155F is a sort of mini mash. I used to stick that 2 gallon pot in a prewarmed, but turned off oven for an hour. Then strain and sparge through a sieve, including a vorlauf.

I use 2 pounds of Vienna in my 2-Hearted clone recipe. Golden LME/DME has Munich in it, which will be close.

We all seem to agree that in addition to a bittering hop, 4 oz of Centennial are needed to get near a clone.

 

[griffi]

Wow that is bad. I would not put anything above 140F into plastic either (could do this for no chill but that more advanced). You should put your pot in a sink/tub cold water bath to cool down first.

Here's what happened when I put 140F pbw solution (trying to be efficient)

 

[mr_javi]

Well. I am somewhat finished with the brew. I over cooled the wort down into the 50s. And for some reason my instructions gave an OG of 1.072, and I got 1.080! Oh well. Not really sure I like the way these instructions were put together. I've watched countless videos showing what is probably the right way, and instead I did what these instructions said. Should've just gone with what I've learned so far. Hope it turns out ok.

 

[IslandLizard]

Kit instructions are notoriously bad. Apply what you've learned is good strategy, in the end you'll ignore most of such instructions. You should still read them for valuable and critical directions, but skip the rest.

Did you get your 5 gallon volume? You could always add a bit more (boiled) water if there is enough headspace in your fermentor. Or enjoy the stronger beer.

v1 x g1 = v2 x g2​

Gravity (g) in points, °Brix, or °Plato.

 

[mr_javi]

Kit instructions are notoriously bad. Apply what you've learned is good strategy, in the end you'll ignore most of such instructions. You should still read them for valuable and critical directions, but skip the rest.

Did you get your 5 gallon volume? You could always add a bit more (boiled) water if there is enough headspace in your fermentor. Or enjoy the stronger beer.

v1 x g1 = v2 x g2​

Gravity (g) in points, °Brix, or °Plato.

Yeah. That reading was at top off volume of 5 gallons. I steeped the grain bag a little longer as well, so maybe thats got something to do with it. I'm fine with stronger, if it tastes ok. Overall a fun day.

 

[griffi]

I frequently make a 2 hearted clone. I haven't done extract in a couple years, but your instructions made no sense to me. Check out the NB kit instructions http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/DeadRingerIPA.pdf
They seem to make sense for 2 hearted, IMO. No need to buy their kit but I think the recipe is pretty darn close to a good extract clone

 

[mr_javi]

I frequently make a 2 hearted clone. I haven't done extract in a couple years, but your instructions made no sense to me. Check out the NB kit instructions http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/DeadRingerIPA.pdf
They seem to make sense for 2 hearted, IMO. No need to buy their kit but I think the recipe is pretty darn close to a good extract clone

Your instructions are very clear. Let me clarify just a bit. What I meant to say was the process that my store uses, and gives in their instructions, is somewhat of a different process. I understood the directions, but it was because they took the time at the store to go through them very well with me, answering and questions I had. I've been researching brewing for 2 months in anticipation of starting after Christmas, and the methods I have seen over and over on Youtube and elsewhere are a bit different (like adding the extract after the boil). I think if this beer turns out bad, It will be because of my error, and I'll try again. No big deal. I am very happy with my local Homebrew shop and will continue to use them, but hopefully next time, I will be more confident in using the procedures I have learned from my reading. Actually, while I do Like Two Hearted, it isn't my favorite. I was half way making this beer to share with someone who doesn't like the more "citrusy" hop flavors.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah. That reading was at top off volume of 5 gallons. I steeped the grain bag a little longer as well, so maybe thats got something to do with it. I'm fine with stronger, if it tastes ok. Overall a fun day.

1.082 in 5 gallons, huh?
Let's see how it all worked out.

Your 9.9# of LME should yield 9.9 x 36 pts/pound = 356 points.

2 pounds of Vienna, mashed at 85% efficiency, yields 2 x 30 = 60 pts. However, steeped in 2-3 gallons of water gets you close to nothing, it's all starch that only mashing will convert to sugar. If it was in a grain bag, and you didn't dunk/agitate/rinse it every few minutes, it may have mashed (unintentionally), which is good! Yield 0-60 points. Let's use 30.

8 oz C10 ==> .5 x 14 pts/pound = 7 pts
6 oz CaraMalt, similar to C15 ==> .375 x 14 pts/pound = 5.3 pts
If mashed, about 2x as much sugar can be extracted from light crystal/cara malts compared to steeping.

So total is 356 + 30 + 12 = 398 points
In 5 gallons* that is 398/5 = 79.6 points. Gravity = 1.080. Close to your measured 1.082!

* 5 gallons here means you had no sugar losses from splashing, boilovers, leftover wort in the kettle, etc. IOW, you dumped all the boiled wort, hops and trub into your fermentor, then topped up to 5 gallons exactly and mixed it well before taking your gravity reading.

Well done!

Look into mashing, what it is, how it is different from steeping, and why and how it's done. Mini mashes can be very rewarding! The wonky "kit" instructions should have pointed you in that direction when including 2 pounds of Vienna and 14 oz of light crystal malts. That's 3 pounds of grain that makes a considerable contribution to the recipe!

 

[Chiller_ale]

May be a bit strong but should be good. I bet this will get better with more bottle conditioning (month or more).

I punched your recipe into Brewer's friend calculator with 75% efficiency and got 1.082. Good advice from islandLizard.

 

[benco]

I have always followed NB recipe with some modifications. My favorite house beer. I brew this one five or six times a year. I hope yours turns out well.

 

[griffi]

What I meant to say was the process that my store uses, and gives in their instructions, is somewhat of a different process. I understood the directions, but it was because they took the time at the store to go through them very well with me, answering and questions I had. I've been researching brewing for 2 months in anticipation of starting after Christmas, and the methods I have seen over and over on Youtube and elsewhere are a bit different (like adding the extract after the boil).

Your response suggests to me one of the major concepts I've picked up in nearly 2 years brewing: there are many different ways to make good beer. I've moved away from extract brewing but I had good results using a cheap propane burner and a 10 gal pot. I always did full boils and I started off with an immersion chiller. I think those things were an advantage over starting indoors on a stovetop, but everybody approaches this hobby from a different angle. As long you keep sanitary practices and some control over fermentation temps, you can make good beer in multiple ways. Reading brewing books and consulting forums like these will greatly improve your beer as you progress.

 

[IslandLizard]

Your response suggests to me one of the major concepts I've picked up in nearly 2 years brewing: there are many different ways to make good beer. I've moved away from extract brewing but I had good results using a cheap propane burner and a 10 gal pot. I always did full boils and I started off with an immersion chiller. I think those things were an advantage over starting indoors on a stovetop, but everybody approaches this hobby from a different angle. As long you keep sanitary practices and some control over fermentation temps, you can make good beer in multiple ways. Reading brewing books and consulting forums like these will greatly improve your beer as you progress.

In addition, look for and try different craft beers, join a homebrew club, or even attend an AHA conference. The 2013 AHA conference in Philadelphia was a big eyeopener for me, homebrew wise. A choice of 100s of excellent homebrew beers all day long.

 

[mr_javi]

1.082 in 5 gallons, huh?
Let's see how it all worked out.

Your 9.9# of LME should yield 9.9 x 36 pts/pound = 356 points.

2 pounds of Vienna, mashed at 85% efficiency, yields 2 x 30 = 60 pts. However, steeped in 2-3 gallons of water gets you close to nothing, it's all starch that only mashing will convert to sugar. If it was in a grain bag, and you didn't dunk/agitate/rinse it every few minutes, it may have mashed (unintentionally), which is good! Yield 0-60 points. Let's use 30.

8 oz C10 ==> .5 x 14 pts/pound = 7 pts
6 oz CaraMalt, similar to C15 ==> .375 x 14 pts/pound = 5.3 pts
If mashed, about 2x as much sugar can be extracted from light crystal/cara malts compared to steeping.

So total is 356 + 30 + 12 = 398 points
In 5 gallons* that is 398/5 = 79.6 points. Gravity = 1.080. Close to your measured 1.082!

* 5 gallons here means you had no sugar losses from splashing, boilovers, leftover wort in the kettle, etc. IOW, you dumped all the boiled wort, hops and trub into your fermentor, then topped up to 5 gallons exactly and mixed it well before taking your gravity reading.

Well done!

Look into mashing, what it is, how it is different from steeping, and why and how it's done. Mini mashes can be very rewarding! The wonky "kit" instructions should have pointed you in that direction when including 2 pounds of Vienna and 14 oz of light crystal malts. That's 3 pounds of grain that makes a considerable contribution to the recipe!

Wow! That's a lot of math, and experience! Makes me feel better that I got close to your calcs. Your assumptions seem spot on. It is fermenting away, and smells good. So we'all see in a few weeks! I definitely want to get into all grain sooner than later. Just trying to get my feet wet. Thanks for the help!

 

[mr_javi]

Your response suggests to me one of the major concepts I've picked up in nearly 2 years brewing: there are many different ways to make good beer. I've moved away from extract brewing but I had good results using a cheap propane burner and a 10 gal pot. I always did full boils and I started off with an immersion chiller. I think those things were an advantage over starting indoors on a stovetop, but everybody approaches this hobby from a different angle. As long you keep sanitary practices and some control over fermentation temps, you can make good beer in multiple ways. Reading brewing books and consulting forums like these will greatly improve your beer as you progress.

Great advice. I have had my face in the books for about 2 months and feel like I am just scraping the surface!