robtotten
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure where you're getting the sour ale thing. Unless I have completely missed a post, there's not going to be a sour mash, and lacto or lactic acid added, or acidulated malt.
Tweaking Brew's Best Scottish Ale
- Thread starter dlm3
- Start date
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ongreystreet
Well-Known Member
Yea, you're right on that.
But what I add up has an IBU of like 7. Maybe it's just a very malty and stronger export scotch ale.
I calculated an IBU of about 13.4 with the current recipe, which per http://www.brewsupplies.com/hops-gravity.htm, would probably be too malty. So I was thinking I could use my full oz of Cascade for an hour, add .5 oz Fuggles at 30 min. and the last .5 oz at 15 minutes. According to this calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/), I should end up at about 20.5 IBUs. Which, per the chart above, is just in the "extra malty" range, so probably appropriate for this style.
See the following link for screenshots of my calculations:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47899199@N00/5369558631/
See the following link for screenshots of my calculations:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47899199@N00/5369558631/
ongreystreet
Well-Known Member
Ok, I get 18 IBU with Beersmith, it's sometimes hard to follow recipes as they change thru a thread.
storunner13
Well-Known Member
dlm3. If you're still doing a late addition of extract (3.3 amber LME in the beginning, 1lb DME and 4lbs LME at 15 minutes) I would suggest: .5oz of both Cascade and Fuggles at 60, and then the remaining .5oz of Fuggles at 15. That will give you about 24 IBUs. I'd suggest shooting for a few more IBUs than usual, given an extract recipe with amber malt extract. It tends to have more unfermentables, and therefore might result in a beer which could be too sweet. A more balanced malt/hop ratio is probably best.
However, if you can measure out the LME, you can save the remaining extract for a yeast starter, or a future batch.
However, if you can measure out the LME, you can save the remaining extract for a yeast starter, or a future batch.
I think around 24 IBU sounds fine for this brew. But could you help me with the math though? When I plug what you suggested into the IBU calculator I only got about 16 IBUs. How did you get 24? Also, are you suggesting not using the last .5 oz of Cascade? (.5 of each at 60 plus .5 Fuggles at 30, no mention of that last .5 of Cascade.)
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
storunner13
Well-Known Member
You're right, the late addition increases the hop utilization (and therefore IBUs) because a lower gravity boil increases utilization.
As for figuring it out, it's a bit complicated. I figure out what the boil gravity would be with just the first addition of malt (yours would be around 1.024, which calculates to about 1.015 OG using your calculator) and plug in the first hop addition. With .5oz each of the Cascade and Fuggles I get 21.89 IBUs. Then I plug in the target OG (1.060) and the next addition, .5oz Fuggles for 15 minutes, which is 2.53 IBUs. I usually round down, because you'll loose a little bit of extraction from the extra gravity in last 15 minutes, but I figure it's all water under the bridge.
Does that make sense? I wouldn't make your first brew too complicated. A late addition isn't too complicated to do, but the calculations are a bit tougher.
As for figuring it out, it's a bit complicated. I figure out what the boil gravity would be with just the first addition of malt (yours would be around 1.024, which calculates to about 1.015 OG using your calculator) and plug in the first hop addition. With .5oz each of the Cascade and Fuggles I get 21.89 IBUs. Then I plug in the target OG (1.060) and the next addition, .5oz Fuggles for 15 minutes, which is 2.53 IBUs. I usually round down, because you'll loose a little bit of extraction from the extra gravity in last 15 minutes, but I figure it's all water under the bridge.
Does that make sense? I wouldn't make your first brew too complicated. A late addition isn't too complicated to do, but the calculations are a bit tougher.
ongreystreet
Well-Known Member
The Joy of Homebrewing by Charles Papazian has a great table with beer styles and typical ingredient guidelines, helps to keep you in line with what you're trying to make.
I think alerting this much almost makes having the kit pointless.
If you're going to change this recipe, I would suggest:
1) Go look at this book or similar table, determine if you want a light, heavy, export, or strong scotch ale.
2) Using Table, determine how much total malt you need to do this.
3) Using Table, determine how much bittering and aroma hops you'll need.
4) Double check recipe with something like beersmith (free trial) and at least one person you trust.
I would suggest only one malt addition and two hop additions.
I think alerting this much almost makes having the kit pointless.
If you're going to change this recipe, I would suggest:
1) Go look at this book or similar table, determine if you want a light, heavy, export, or strong scotch ale.
2) Using Table, determine how much total malt you need to do this.
3) Using Table, determine how much bittering and aroma hops you'll need.
4) Double check recipe with something like beersmith (free trial) and at least one person you trust.
I would suggest only one malt addition and two hop additions.
That makes sense, thanks for the additional info.
I was reading back through How to Brew and in the yeast section Palmer said that dry packets usually have around 70 billion cells, then on the next page there was a chart show how many cells should be used for various gravity beers and I think for around a 1.060 OG brew it said I would need in the neighborhood of twice as many cells.
Should I just rehydrate my single packet, then pitch it? Would my fermentation just take a little longer while the cell count increases? Should I purchase another packet, or try to make a starter using some of the extra Pale LME? If doing a starter, do I need to buy some yeast nutrient too?
I was reading back through How to Brew and in the yeast section Palmer said that dry packets usually have around 70 billion cells, then on the next page there was a chart show how many cells should be used for various gravity beers and I think for around a 1.060 OG brew it said I would need in the neighborhood of twice as many cells.
Should I just rehydrate my single packet, then pitch it? Would my fermentation just take a little longer while the cell count increases? Should I purchase another packet, or try to make a starter using some of the extra Pale LME? If doing a starter, do I need to buy some yeast nutrient too?
ongreystreet
Well-Known Member
I just did a 1.054 Porter with a single packet of Nottingham, and it took off like crazy.
The BB kit will tell you to just sprinkle the yeast in, but I always rehydrate according to directions on yeast.
The BB kit will tell you to just sprinkle the yeast in, but I always rehydrate according to directions on yeast.
I think brew day went well! I ended up with an OG of 1.061ish (kind of hard to tell exactly with the foam.) I re-hydrated the yeast per the instructions on the packet, I only had the one packet of Windsor but hopefully that's sufficient. I pitched it almost 3 hours ago and no activity yet, hopefully I start seeing something in the next few hours. It sounds like for this yeast and my gravity I probably should have gotten a second packet of yeast, but we'll see. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again for all the help!
I just checked the gravity of my satellite fermentation and it was about 1.067 @ 64.4 degrees. Should I do anything (add more water to the fermenter) or just leave it alone? It's been about 5 hours since I pitched the yeast. Thanks.
storunner13
Well-Known Member
I would just leave it. Be sure to aerate that wort! Shake that carboy/bucket really well!
I think I aerated it pretty well earlier. I poured it all into the fermenter bucket (where the additional water was waiting) through a spaghetti strainer, then back into the pot and back to the bucket like 3 or 4 times. I read somewhere that using the strainer helps with aeration.
RYANKELLY
Member
Holy Cow dude!
You're quite the tinkerer. I'm brewing the exact same beer right now,only I added 4 cups of brown sugar,2 cups of white sugar and half a cup of honey. My OG was 90 and it's bubbling like crazy 15 hours into it with only one packet of windsor yeast. It smells like a festival and looks like alien art.
You're quite the tinkerer. I'm brewing the exact same beer right now,only I added 4 cups of brown sugar,2 cups of white sugar and half a cup of honey. My OG was 90 and it's bubbling like crazy 15 hours into it with only one packet of windsor yeast. It smells like a festival and looks like alien art.RYANKELLY
Member
It'll be good, I mean it's beer man, but I'll never know what it's supposed to taste like
. Table sugar gets eaten by the yeast a bit slower so I'll let it stew in the carboy for a few more days than recommended by the always trustworthy BB single sheet instructions(why do I tamper?). I'm a boot to home brew(7th kit) but the guy at the beer and wine shop in topeka told me one packet of yeast is all I would need. I'll most likely get tar and feathered for saying this but try a beer on the bottle day and one every day after that. You'll see how much better it gets with each successive day. Than again I have the patience of a menstrating woman with bipolar:fro:.
This morning (approximately 20 hours after pitching the yeast) I had strong fermentation. Good bubbles every 10 seconds or so. I have a thermometer right on top of the bucket and it's reading between 62 and 63 degrees. Hopefully the fermentation is thorough enough to compensate for my higher than intended OG so it doesn't end up too thick and syrupy.
storunner13
Well-Known Member
Sounds like things are going well! Good luck!
Yes, I think things are going well, I still had strong fermentation when I left this morning. I'm still a bit concerned about my final gravity being too high. Any thoughts on what would be "too high" for this style/recipe and what I should do if it is too high?
ongreystreet
Well-Known Member
Why are you worried about your FG being too high? It's been two days. Let it sit for at least 3 weeks before you start to even think about it.
robtotten
Well-Known Member
dlm3 said:
I wouldn't worry about it. The hops and malt will still be balanced, they'll just be a little stronger.
storunner13
Well-Known Member
You can always blend (dilute) it a later (before carbonating) if it's a bit too over the top. Commercial breweries do that sometimes to be able to brew more beer with a smaller system. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/High_Gravity_Brewing
I bottled this past weekend and I think it went pretty well. An ice cube stuck to the pot I boiled my priming sugar water in and ended up falling into my bottling bucket, so I had to resanitize my bucket and boil more sugar water. So it took a bit longer than expected, but not a big deal.
I used about half a gallon of water with my priming sugar since I was a little shy when I originally put it all in the primary. I also went with about 3.9 oz of sugar instead of the full 5 oz since this style shouldn't have a lot of carbonation. I bottled some in a 16 oz plastic soda bottle that I squeezed a little before capping and it's already fairly hard, so I think it's doing well even though it's being stored at 60 to 65 degrees. We'll see how it turns out in a week or two!
I used about half a gallon of water with my priming sugar since I was a little shy when I originally put it all in the primary. I also went with about 3.9 oz of sugar instead of the full 5 oz since this style shouldn't have a lot of carbonation. I bottled some in a 16 oz plastic soda bottle that I squeezed a little before capping and it's already fairly hard, so I think it's doing well even though it's being stored at 60 to 65 degrees. We'll see how it turns out in a week or two!
StumpysBrew
Member
I know this thread is a bit old but thought I'd revive it seeing as I just bought this kit and plan on brewing it sometime this week. I was wondering how your modified brew came out?
I am planning on turning this kit into a partial mash and mashing the grain from the kit along with 3lbs of marris otter. The boil time in the directions is only 45 minutes so I plan on extending it out to 60 min and will add the first cascade at first boil, then adding to it Saaz w/ 4.9aa with 25 minutes left and the second cascade with 5 min left.
I've done something similar with a brewers best kit of english brown ale, but there I removed the lme from the kit and replaced it with grain in the mash to get the gravity back up. Turned out to be one of the best partial beers I've ever made and def the best extract beer ever.
Anyhow I was just wondering how these are tasting after some time?
I am planning on turning this kit into a partial mash and mashing the grain from the kit along with 3lbs of marris otter. The boil time in the directions is only 45 minutes so I plan on extending it out to 60 min and will add the first cascade at first boil, then adding to it Saaz w/ 4.9aa with 25 minutes left and the second cascade with 5 min left.
I've done something similar with a brewers best kit of english brown ale, but there I removed the lme from the kit and replaced it with grain in the mash to get the gravity back up. Turned out to be one of the best partial beers I've ever made and def the best extract beer ever.
Anyhow I was just wondering how these are tasting after some time?
mlyday
Well-Known Member
Maybe its just me but Cascade doesnt seem right for a scottish ale. This kit was pretty good on its own. I like the idea of mashing it with some maris otter.
