Tubing and sanitation

[sictransit701]

Can I go to Lowe’s and get clear pvc tubing? Will that be safe? I have been getting my tubing from homebrew shop, but it’s too far a drive. Need to replace tubing due to sanitation concern.

Also, what are your bottle sanitation practices? I have been putting my bottles in the dishwasher and running on high temp setting. Is that enough? Should I also dunk them in Star San? The reason I ask is because I have great tasting beer before bottling. After bottling, it seems to have off flavors. Not sure if it’s my sanitation practice.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Looks like you've been brewing a while. It may be worth investing in silicone tubing.
Silicone tolerates boiling temperature and therefore you can fully sanitize it by boiling. It's more flexible and should last forever

I rinse bottles immediately after use, soak with a peroxide cleaner, rinse a lot, and apply Star San immediately before bottling.
A "vinator" device is very handy for applying sanitizer.

What off flavors are you experiencing?

 

[IslandLizard]

Before I knew much about brewing, like 10 years ago, I bought some vinyl tubing from Lowe's. I think the brand name is Watts. I only use it on the cold side, for racking and such. I think it's fine to use there, haven't noticed any off flavors. Exposure is short and beer is cool to cold.

When visiting one my local brew stores for some skinny 3/16" ID / 5/16"OD thin-walled tubing to siphon samples through the airlock hole, I noticed how the Kuriyama tubing was so much more flexible than any other type they had, including all the Lowe's stuff I have. So that's become my tubing of choice. It's the same company that makes thick-walled BevLex 200 beer dispensing line.

For total flexibility, flavor neutrality, and heat resistance use silicone tubing. For racking use thin walled, for hot side, 1/2" ID thick walled (1/8" wall thickness).

 

[Qhrumphf]

Looks like you've been brewing a while. It may be worth investing in silicone tubing.
Silicone tolerates boiling temperature and therefore you can fully sanitize it by boiling. It's more flexible and should last forever

I rinse bottles immediately after use, soak with a peroxide cleaner, rinse a lot, and apply Star San immediately before bottling.
A "vinator" device is very handy for applying sanitizer.

What off flavors are you experiencing?

One note is that silicone, while great hot side, doesn't do well with pressure unless specidically manufactured to do so, so if you reach the point of working under closed CO2 pressure, you can easily balloon and rupture a hose. Of course even hot side a deadended pump could do the same.

 

[IslandLizard]

A dishwasher can't clean bottles inside. There is no way unless it has spray nozzles going right up into each bottle, such as with a FastRack's FastWasher.

So after a good rinse out, soak in hot water with some oxiclean or washing soda and use a bottle brush to scrub the inside. Drain, rinse well. Use one of those jet spray bottle washers. Drain and let dry if not using immediately.
Before use, immerse in Starsan for 1 minutes, drain, fill, cap. Those vinators are good too, as long as you stick to a minimum of 30 seconds wet contact time.

 

[sictransit701]

Plastic, water hose taste. Sometimes buttery.

 

[IslandLizard]

Buttery points to diacetyl, possibly from an infection.
Plastic to chlorophenols. Could be from an infection.

Do you use tap water for brewing water, municipal or well?
Supplied through a garden hose?
If municipal, do you treat your brewing water for chlorine/chloramines?

I know you said the beer from the fermenter tastes good, but some off flavors become more noticeable later on (e.g., oxidation) or when carbonated. It's very possible an infection gets introduced during the racking and bottling process.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Simplest answer is they're related. Phenols and diacetyl do suggest a contamination problem.

Are you using a bottling bucket? And do you fully break down the spigot of it every time? They can be quite nasty if not promptly and properly cleaned after use and fully sani'd immediately before.

If the bottles are already clean, and your dishwasher has a hot sani cycle, that will work. It will, however, weaken the glass. I don't trust heat sanitization with glass. Thermally shocking glass is a bad thing.

 

[sictransit701]

I think it’s sanitation as well. It’s not bad beer; it just has those off flavors. I would like to solve this, because it’s happened regularly. It always happens after bottling. Just can’t figure out how. I’ve replaced bottling bucket, spigot, autosiphon, and wand. I take apart and clean after every use. My bottles are cleaned and put in dishwasher for sani rinse and high heat. Caps are in a bowl of starsan. It’s not my water. I treat my water when doing all grain batches and use bottled distilled water for my extract batches.

I’m in the process of turning a brew kettle into a bottling bucket in hopes to cut down on plastic parts. Might cut my stainless steel blowoff tube and use it as a bottling wand. Connect it to the ball valve with high temp tubing and sanitize with hot boiling water before each use.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Sometimes wild organisms can take time to show, so don't inherently rule out a source earlier than bottling.

 

[ncbrewer]

Might cut my stainless steel blowoff tube and use it as a bottling wand. Connect it to the ball valve with high temp tubing and sanitize with hot boiling water before each use.

Many spigots can't stand boiling water temperatures - check first. And I lean toward bottles not being completely clean. As was stated earlier, a dishwasher can't clean bottles because of the small opening.

 

[Qhrumphf]

OP said the dishwasher was for sani, bottles clean before they go in.

Which is a decent process from a sanitary perspective, assuming the initial bottle cleaning is satisfactory. I have my concerns about heat stress on the glass and would sooner use a chemical sanitizer.

Of course if the initial bottle cleaning is problematic, well yeah, that could be the issue. What the OP has in their favor here is a heat sani cycle will penetrate where chemical sanitizers do not, so even if the bottle cleaning process is subpar it might still be ok.

I'm betting the issue is somewhere other than bottles.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Just to add onto the Diacetyl flavor. Yes this can be caused from bacteria but it is also a natural byproduct of fermentation. A proper D-rest can help and does.

What temp did you ferment at?