True or False?

[kh54s10]

I've been thinking about doing a Petroleum IPA. You know, a PIPA. I don't want to make the petroleum taste *too* strong. I was thinking just, like two pounds of crude for a five gallon batch. Would you add that a flameout, or just go full boil?

IMO it doesn't matter. Just keep it away from an open flame.......

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I've been thinking about doing a Petroleum IPA. You know, a PIPA. I don't want to make the petroleum taste *too* strong. I was thinking just, like two pounds of crude for a five gallon batch. Would you add that a flameout, or just go full boil?

I'd add it to the fermenter once the krausen starts to drop. I've had success this way with my Lamp Lighter Kerosene IPA.

 

[Kee]

Nothing wrong with extract brewing, but mashing is the part of brewing that I like the most (except for maybe enjoying the finished product).

 

[mongoose33]

Someone should forward this thread to Brulosopher...this would make a good exbeerment.

It's been done:

http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/04/ex...-2-comparing-recipe-kits-exbeeriment-results/

and

http://brulosophy.com/2014/07/21/extract-vs-all-grain-exbeeriment-results/

 

[PADave]

I didn't read all the posts, so maybe this was already mentioned. Who told you this, hombrew shop employees? Guess what, they make more profit off extract than grains. Make sense why they'd tell you to stick with extract? I personally can tell a difference between my extract brews and AG. BIAB is almost as simple as extract, and I don't think I'll ever do an extract brew again.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them. Extract is easy to manage and the wife and I have the system down to a science making it a fun, family adventure.

I have been kicking tires and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB. Lots of good advice, seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. My question involves the end product, or finished and conditioned beer.

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief. So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

This is an opinion based question for sure, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste True or False in your opinion?

I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them TRUE. Extract is easy to manage TRUE and the wife and I have the system down to a science TRUE making it a fun, family adventure.TRUE

I have been kicking tires FALSE and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB TRUE. Lots of good advice,TRUE & FLASE seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. TRUE My question involves the end product, TRUE or finished and conditioned beer. TRUE

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good TRUE. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions TRUE so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory TRUE, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief TRUE So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale TRUE (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, TRUE and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test FALSE. He challenges me to this TRUE and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison TRUE.

This is an opinion based question for sure TRUE, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste FALSE True or False in your opinion? FALSE is TRUE

Hope this helped.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Seriously though...I have done the Sierra Nevada Ex-beer-iment making an all-grain, extract, and buying the commercial.

Starting off sober, everyone voted for which one's which by color alone (no tasting), tasting samples from a red cup (blindfolded), and by smelling a sample.

The results were what I thought they may be... 100% of beer mooching friends picked out the extract by taste and color noting that 'extract twang'. Color because DUH...it's darker, and about 50/50 picked the extract by smell (total guessing if you ask me). The differences between the commercial and all-grain were a very slight color difference, even slighter taste difference, but it was split on which one was which.

We then watched YouTube videos, bbq'd some ribs, and dressed the dog up like a pirate. Good times.

 

[MaryB]

Even after I get setup fr all grain I will still do some extract batches in the depths of winter. Easier to brew in my kitchen than to haul water to the garage(heated) and probably have to drag stuff in the house for cleaning...

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

I absolutely love doing all-grain, and a basic gravity fed system is actually pretty damn cheap. I calculated after 5-6 batches it pays for itself. And yeah, my beer got considerably better after the switch from extract.

The choices! It is like 100 times more enjoyable building an AG recipe than an extract one. You can make, anything!

No matter what the case. Know what your system is capable of and stay in that area, you will keep making good beer.

 

[theseeker4]

I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them. Extract is easy to manage and the wife and I have the system down to a science making it a fun, family adventure.

I have been kicking tires and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB. Lots of good advice, seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. My question involves the end product, or finished and conditioned beer.

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief. So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

This is an opinion based question for sure, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste True or False in your opinion?

I can tell you right now that your LHBS has a larger profit margin on extract than grain....

You can make great beer with extract, and great beer with all grain. Grain is cheaper, more fun, more variety, and feels more like actually making beer from scratch than extract IMO, which is why I switched to BIAB after two extract batches. If you simply want to make good beer in the easiest way, even if the ingredients are more expensive, stick with extract. If you want to move on to more advanced processes that allow you more variety and more ways to customize your beer, go all grain. BIAB is a great way to go all grain without spending a ton on new equipment.

 

[Revvy]

I can tell you right now that your LHBS has a larger profit margin on extract than grain....

I call BS. I just showed this to my friend who owns one of the busiest HB shops in the metro Detroit area, he laughed and said this was the stupidest "conspiracy theory" he's ever heard. He said he makes the same profit margin on either Grain or Extract. (which isn't much he said.) He said you don't go into this business expecting to make money.

SMH

 

[Mainer]

I call BS. I just showed this to my friend who owns one of the busiest HB shops in the metro Detroit area, he laughed and said this was the stupidest "conspiracy theory" he's ever heard. He said he makes the same profit margin on either Grain or Extract. (which isn't much he said.) He said you don't go into this business expecting to make money.

SMH

If I get any pressure from my LHBS guys, it's pressure to go all-grain. And it's not, like, a hard sell because they're looking to make more money. It's more like the peer pressure of me thinking, "Wow, you LHBS guys are really cool beer guys, and I want you to think I'm a cool beer guy, too!"

EDIT: I *do* think somebody's getting a higher profit on kits vs. grain or extract, but I'm pretty sure it's Brewer's Best, not my local shop.

 

[Revvy]

If I get any pressure from my LHBS guys, it's pressure to go all-grain. And it's not, like, a hard sell because they're looking to make more money. It's more like the peer pressure of me thinking, "Wow, you LHBS guys are really cool beer guys, and I want you to think I'm a cool beer guy, too!"

EDIT: I *do* think somebody's getting a higher profit on kits vs. grain or extract, but I'm pretty sure it's Brewer's Best, not my local shop.

Yeah my shop regularly teaches all grain classes, and does demos. In fact they've got a full slate of things like that setup for next Saturday's big brew day.

 

[Mainer]

Yeah my shop regularly teaches all grain classes, and does demos. In fact they've got a full slate of things like that setup for next Saturday's big brew day.

Woah... I just found out my LHBS sells & ships their own proprietary kits for clones of high-rated local brews, designed by the breweries. This might be dangerous.

https://squareup.com/store/maine-brewing-supply/

($100 for the Bissell Brothers Swish clone, though? I know it's one of those White Whale beers that people all over the country come hunting for, but jesus, that's expensive.)

 

[Homercidal]

I don't think the LHBS gets more margin on extract supplies. It just simply costs more to make it than malted grain. That cost is passed down through the sales chain.

 

[Clonefan94]

My main reason for going all grain is the control I have over a recipe. You can get more precise tweaks with all grain that are just not achievable with extract. You definitely can brew great beers with extract, but I feel more in control with all grain.

And to be honest, even though my brew days are now longer, I find them to be easier and more relaxed as the boil is pretty straightforward now as opposed to when to extract. When to add the extract, cutting the heat, stirring well, heating it back up to boil and adding the last bit of extract.

 

[jr72023]

I call BS. I just showed this to my friend who owns one of the busiest HB shops in the metro Detroit area, he laughed and said this was the stupidest "conspiracy theory" he's ever heard. He said he makes the same profit margin on either Grain or Extract. (which isn't much he said.) He said you don't go into this business expecting to make money.

SMH

The same profit margin. Let's suppose he marks things up 30%. Are we to believe that 30% of $20 is the same as 30% of $45? If he makes the same margin he actually makes more when he sells extract. Simple math, not a conspiracy.

If he doesn't see that simple fact, it is a good thing he didn't go into this business expecting to make money.

The flip side of the coin is that when a customer does go all grain, they become addicted to the equipment which would be a definite plus for the seller.

 

[brewcat]

True

I've been converting my old extract recipes to all grain. They end up basically tasting the same. I doubt I could tell them apart if I didn't know the process. Color might be the only difference.

 

[Morrey]

True

I've been converting my old extract recipes to all grain. They end up basically tasting the same. I doubt I could tell them apart if I didn't know the process. Color might be the only difference.

I can't answer the cost factor of AG to extract, but everyone says go AG cause it's so much cheaper and tastes so much better. I do know there is a ton of extract sold now days so there must be a reason. Convenience of extract? Set-up costs detract from AG?

 

[PADave]

I can't answer the cost factor of AG to extract, but everyone says go AG cause it's so much cheaper and tastes so much better. I do know there is a ton of extract sold now days so there must be a reason. Convenience of extract? Set-up costs detract from AG?

AG is definitely cheaper than extract. Just look at the same kit extract vs. AG, and extract is always going to be more expensive. I can tell a difference between the two, whether it's brews I've done, or others have done. Extract always has a "twang" to it. Convenience has something to do with it. How many beginning brewers take the next step to AG? BIAB is the little gem that takes no more effort than extract, minimal equipment, but yields superior results.

 

[brewcat]

I can't answer the cost factor of AG to extract, but everyone says go AG cause it's so much cheaper and tastes so much better. I do know there is a ton of extract sold now days so there must be a reason. Convenience of extract? Set-up costs detract from AG?

AG is definitely cheaper once you get by startup costs. I think my recipes end up 25% or so less without bulk buys. Extract is cheaper to start, more convenient, less space issues and more accessible. Maybe easier to kit?

Personally, I like my AG day better. I had basically maxed out my learning with extract. I guess I just didn't notice a big jump in my own recipes going from extract to all-grain. I was utilizing partial mash and full boil. I don't think I've shared any beer since going all-grain so maybe my family will notice.

 

[kh54s10]

Woah... I just found out my LHBS sells & ships their own proprietary kits for clones of high-rated local brews, designed by the breweries. This might be dangerous.

https://squareup.com/store/maine-brewing-supply/

($100 for the Bissell Brothers Swish clone, though? I know it's one of those White Whale beers that people all over the country come hunting for, but jesus, that's expensive.)

I don't think they will be selling a ton of those kits. If you do all grain you could work up your own clone for less than half maybe even 1/4 the price. The next thing I saw was $10 shipping and ships within 7 days. That is ridiculous.. They should ship no later than the next day!!!

I can't answer the cost factor of AG to extract, but everyone says go AG cause it's so much cheaper and tastes so much better. I do know there is a ton of extract sold now days so there must be a reason. Convenience of extract? Set-up costs detract from AG?

All grain is far cheaper, especially if you buy in bulk and compare that to extract kits. What is sold for $50 can be put together all grain for less than $25.

The convenience comes in 2 levels. Extracts can be done without an hour mash time. It doesn't require anything more than a steeping bag and a smaller pot than needed for all grain.

BIAB is the next step which typically requires a larger pot and larger bags. But less equipment than traditional all grain.

Traditional all grain requires a pot for heating water and a mash tun as a minimum. Hot liquor tank, mash tun and boil kettle for more convenience. The upgrades can be pretty much endless. Bigger, shinier, electric, etc.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Obviously, the answer is true and is conditional. For me the answer is false. I started with a small kit with steeping grains and DME turned out very drinkable no off flavors but not characteristic of the style. My second was a DME hefeweizen kit and it wasn't very good at all. Some weird off flavor that intensified in the bottle. Kind hearted friends drank and thanked, but I knew it wasn't good beer. Frustrated with the of taste and bad color I bought a can of hopped LME, mixed it in the fermentation bucket with enough hot water to get the can empty, pitched the dry yeast. (I know) No hot break, no cold break, no control of bitterness and it turned out pretty good. That process to me was like mixing a can of Campbell's soup with water and calling it cooking. So after just 3 extract brews I got some grain kits and did BIAB. I'm glad I did. I'm making nice flavorful and drinkable beer. Extract has its place, but for me and my small batch brew grains are working better, and eventually I'll be coming up with my own recipies. And, spent grain bread is pretty good too.

 

[Morrey]

Obviously, the answer is true and is conditional. For me the answer is false. I started with a small kit with steeping grains and DME turned out very drinkable no off flavors but not characteristic of the style. My second was a DME hefeweizen kit and it wasn't very good at all. Some weird off flavor that intensified in the bottle. Kind hearted friends drank and thanked, but I knew it wasn't good beer. Frustrated with the of taste and bad color I bought a can of hopped LME, mixed it in the fermentation bucket with enough hot water to get the can empty, pitched the dry yeast. (I know) No hot break, no cold break, no control of bitterness and it turned out pretty good. That process to me was like mixing a can of Campbell's soup with water and calling it cooking. So after just 3 extract brews I got some grain kits and did BIAB. I'm glad I did. I'm making nice flavorful and drinkable beer. Extract has its place, but for me and my small batch brew grains are working better, and eventually I'll be coming up with my own recipies. And, spent grain bread is pretty good too.

I have made enough extract beers to think that LME or DME beers are darker in color that their AG counterparts. Maybe that is why my extract vs AG challenger wants to see if I can pick up on this factor. Unless he did most of his extracts as late additions, I think it will be easy to spot visually. I may also be able to detect the "reconstituted" taste (if that is a proper term) of the extract. Not saying that extract won't be just as good or maybe better, but I do think I can tell the difference.

With that said, I've acquired a larger pot and burner for a BIAB brew. I'll be able to control small details with own recipes. I'll probably keep some DME around for starters and OG adjustments, but I think I have officially shifted into another gear.

*** I like the idea of spent grain bread..cool! Wonder if I broadcast some spent grain in my flower beds under the bird feeders, will birds eat it after it dries??

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Oh yes the birds will enjoy it. I have a friend that makes dog treats with the grain too. Asked me it there were hops in the grain, since hops are not so good for dogs. My dog always sat nearby when I opened a bottle of beer... Little booze hound, lol.

 

[TorMag]

AG is definitely cheaper once you get by startup costs. I think my recipes end up 25% or so less without bulk buys. Extract is cheaper to start, more convenient, less space issues and more accessible. Maybe easier to kit?

Personally, I like my AG day better. I had basically maxed out my learning with extract. I guess I just didn't notice a big jump in my own recipes going from extract to all-grain. I was utilizing partial mash and full boil. I don't think I've shared any beer since going all-grain so maybe my family will notice.

So where do you go to get the cheap bulk grains? I just bought the ingredients for my 3rd AG from my LHBS and the cost was $45. Nothing special in the ingredients.

 

[kh54s10]

Oh yes the birds will enjoy it. I have a friend that makes dog treats with the grain too. Asked me it there were hops in the grain, since hops are not so good for dogs. My dog always sat nearby when I opened a bottle of beer... Little booze hound, lol.

Everyone always says that critters will love the spent grains. I guess so, but in my experience - NO... I dump my spent grains in my compost pile. I have never seen any evidence of anything but worms getting to it, and that is after it has been there a while. I put spent grains on the ground below my feeders and the birds would eat only stuff that was NOT on the spent grains.

 

[kh54s10]

So where do you go to get the cheap bulk grains? I just bought the ingredients for my 3rd AG from my LHBS and the cost was $45. Nothing special in the ingredients.

My LHBS sells bags of 2 row for about $50. (group buys much lower) The same LHBS sells the 2 row by the pound for about $1.25 or $1.50? I buy hops online for about $1 per ounce. At the LHBS it is average about $1.50 per ounce.

You need to shop around and compare prices. My average brew is about $30, this includes the $15-$20 lawnmower beers as well as the 10+ abv beers.

 

[DrunkPoetry]

AG all day bro - you can build a decent mash tun for around $40 - here's what you will need -
1. $25 48 qt cooler (rectangular is easier to work with for batch sparging)
2. $5 16" stainless steel braided hose
3. $5 nylon inline valve 1/2"
4. $5 6 ft 1/2 hose
5. a 1/2" brass coupler

This video will give you a good overview of batch sparging using this set up - [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e24WLKJgCXc[/ame]

 

[rtracer]

After my first 4 extract batches, I will be kegging my first 2 all grain BAIB batches.
My extract batches came out good, but they all kinda had the same taste to me, not bad, but kinda similar sweetness.
It was fun brewing the first few batches of extract, but to me, it just didn't really feel like I was actually making beer. More like baking a cake from a box.

With my first two all grains, I made the recipes, hell I made wort out of a bag of grains. Have not even tried them yet, but I am proud that I actually MADE beer.

Now, if they turn out like crap I may have other things to say LOL