Trouble Shooting Help Please

[Jhubbard9]

Hello all,

So today I racked my double session IPA into my keg and poured some into a glass to try the uncarbonated sample. Well it was disgusting to say the least and had a taste of burnt plastic and rubbing alcohol (keep in mind this beer was not over 1.040-1.045 S.G). I don't know what happened but obviously I messed up big time.

What I do know: I used distilled water with no added minerals. This was the first time not using tap water and my water "chemistry" is more like add this a pray it works. I only added 2.5 tsp of gypsum to the mash and tried to keep my mash ph between 5.1-5.5. That was the only addition to the brew I made in terms of salts. My mash time was about 1:15 minutes. I have always done it like this and haven't had too much of a problem.I don't know if that's too long and I leeched tannin's or what?

My beer has always been okay to good sometimes but there has always been something off and its getting kind of annoying. My IPA's always taste the same that's when I tried using distilled water and then it came out like this. The more I brew, The more I know I don't know anything.

Any thoughts or suggestions from you guys would be awesome. Just kind of frustrated and want to know of anything I can do to make great beer or any information I can pick up. Thanks everyone.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Do you use Temp control when fermenting? if your brew gets into the higher temps when it is fermenting you can produce Fusel Alcohol which can taste like rubbing alcohol. usually associated with bigger beers but can be found in sessions for sure. Morebeer has a great article on off flavours. give it a read.
http://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

And Chris Graham has a great podcast on fermentation were he talk about the "rubbing alcohol " taste to if your into listening to podcasts
http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/10/28/beer-fermentation-with-chris-graham-beersmith-podcast-91/
keep fighting the good fight!

 

[zmanzorro]

What Shawn said ...

 

[wallybangbang]

The two best things I have done since I started brewing were buy a temp controlled freezer to keep temps constant and get a basic understanding of water chemistry. Made my beers go from good to great (sometimes). Check out the water chemistry sticky-its where I started. Good luck!

 

[Jhubbard9]

Do you use Temp control when fermenting? if your brew gets into the higher temps when it is fermenting you can produce Fusel Alcohol which can taste like rubbing alcohol. usually associated with bigger beers but can be found in sessions for sure. Morebeer has a great article on off flavours. give it a read.
http://www.morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

And Chris Graham has a great podcast on fermentation were he talk about the "rubbing alcohol " taste to if your into listening to podcasts
http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/10/28/beer-fermentation-with-chris-graham-beersmith-podcast-91/
keep fighting the good fight!

Yeah I've got my OHM brew system with both hot and cold temp controllers. I could have started out too high. I usually like to start out at about 70 degrees( so the yeast can get started) for a couple days then drop the temp to 67-68 for the main part of fermentation. Do you think that is too high of a start temp? Maybe a consistant 66 would work?

Also I'll have to check out those stickys on water chemistry right now I go crossed trying to read all these equations about ppm and converting numbers. I wish it was just like add a tsp of this and you will get this. Lol

I thought it might be my mash pH or mashing for too long or hot. Thanks for the help and any other help is greatly appreciated. I dont know if you have already done it but could you post a link to the water stickies. If you could post the link that would be awesome! If you already have thank you! (At work on my phone and it sucks lol) cheers!

 

[kombat]

I usually like to start out at about 70 degrees( so the yeast can get started) for a couple days then drop the temp to 67-68 for the main part of fermentation. Do you think that is too high of a start temp? Maybe a consistant 66 would work?

It depends on the yeast, but personally, I generally chill my wort down to 65° F before pitching the yeast, then once the yeast is pitched I set the temperature controller to 64° F. A week later, I take it out of the fermentation chamber and let it warm up to room temperature and give it 2 more weeks to finish up. Then into the keg.

Are you measuring the temperature of the beer, or the air around the beer?

 

[Jhubbard9]

It depends on the yeast, but personally, I generally chill my wort down to 65° F before pitching the yeast, then once the yeast is pitched I set the temperature controller to 64° F. A week later, I take it out of the fermentation chamber and let it warm up to room temperature and give it 2 more weeks to finish up. Then into the keg.

Are you measuring the temperature of the beer, or the air around the beer?

I use a 6 gallon glads carboy with a stopper thermowell so it should be the temperature of the beer or close to it. I'll have to try cooler starting temps for pitching and beginning fermentstion.
Could oxygenation be the problem? I generally transfer my beers into a five gal secondary and in this case did a dry hop. I dont know if I had to much contact with oxygen when transferring or if that would even be that case.

 

[kombat]

No, as long as you didn't splash when transferring it shouldn't have hurt the beer. And even if you did oxidize it, that'd be a very different off-flavour from the ones you're describing.

What did you do for yeast handling for this batch? Dry or liquid? Rehydrated or sprinkled? Starter or direct-pitch? Stressed and underpitched yeast can produce some unpleasant off-flavours, but the plastic, hot alcohol taste you're describing sounds like fusels to me, which I usually associated with too-high fermentation temperatures (but that doesn't sound like the case here).

 

[ncbrewer]

Have you checked the calibration of the thermometer and the whole temp control loop? 70F just doesn't seem warm enough to cause that kind of off flavors to me. Or it could be oxidation.

 

[Jhubbard9]

It was a the straight California from white laps. I think its wlp001 if I'm not mistaken and I direct pitched after letting get to room temp for about fours hours. I take it out of my fridge when I'm getting supplies and let it sit while I do the brew and chill the wort. Then direct pitch when the wort is chilled and oxygenated.

 

[kombat]

So it sounds like a slight underpitch (you should normally make a starter with liquid yeast, or pitch 2 vials), but it shouldn't make THAT big of a difference. How did you oxygenate the wort?

 

[Jhubbard9]

Hmm I have never heard of direct pitch with two vials I'll have to try that and also get a yeast starter. How I oxygenate my wort is just a good shake(which is probably not the common practice) I also filter my final wort through a nylon straining bag for clarity which should let my wort have a little bit more oxygen as well.

 

[Jhubbard9]

I also had a beer tonight and it had the same kodn of astringent taste to it but it had a sweetness as well maybe my caramel hops didn't mellow out the bitterness of the hops?

 

[Jhubbard9]

Malts*

 

[kh54s10]

Distilled water is stripped of many minerals. If your tap water is not good try buying spring water. 70 degrees is not that high so it shouldn't have had that much effect. I ferment at about 65 with WLP001, Wy1056 and US05 which are all essentially the same strain.

So different water and lower fermentation temperatures would be the changes I recommend to start with.

 

[wallybangbang]

Guess I didn't read the original post good enough. Don't brew with straight distilled or RO water without any additives. Read the sticky about it in the brew science forum where they give a ballpark number of gypsum and calcium carbonate to add. I brew with RO but I build it up-starting with a blank slate has made a huge difference for me. +1 on the lower temps too-shoot for 64-66* and make sure that is the beer temp, fermentation adds heat! I secure my temp probe to the side of the fermenter with a dish rag and some duct tape.

 

[pdxal]

Never thought I would hear the term "double session IPA". I learned something today.

 

[Jhubbard9]

Yeah its something I have been trying to make something with the bitterness of a double but the alcohol content of a session. Obviously it is a work in progress.

Also I asked on here and someone said all you need is some gypsum so I was like sweet. That probably wasn't the right idea either. So you're saying if I do use water other then tap get the water with minerals added? I would almost like to start with a clean slate but that seemed to be harder then I expected. I'll have to check out the stickys for water profiles because I definitely messed up somewhere.

Also I thought the malts added a lot of needed nutrients and minerals but maybe I still need a little more of something. Definitely going to check out the stickys for the water once I get a moment.

So you guys suggest lower start temps, a yeast starter, and a different approach on water profile?