Tripel in primary and I'm smelling bananas... uh oh?

[McKraut]

So this is my second brew... my first was a Cooper's Lager that I didn't realize really needed to be fermented quite cold, as my LHB store included it with the kit and told me I was good to go. Well, that batch has been bottle conditioning for about 8 days now; I tried one, and it tastes either bananas or apples... my girlfriend says more apple. I'm hoping that taste might mellow out if I just leave them conditioning at room temps for a while longer... like a couple weeks? I'm thinking it might be a lost cause though, since the temps in the room were probably as high as 80 at some points as the house we live in just isn't insulated for crap, and in Dallas that's a bad thing in the summer. To make things worse we didn't really try to cool it at all (wet towel, etc).

Anyway, so then I picked up the New Belgium Tripel receipe from Austin Homebrew Supply... and followed the brew instructions to the T... however I'm worried about my fermenting temp, as the airlock is venting a very strong banana smell at this point. Is this a sign of troubles, or can it smell like banana in the primary but taste just fine later after secondary and bottle conditioning? The ambient temp in the room is about 75 (during hot summer days maybe as much as 78ish), but we have instituted a very ghetto swamp cooler with towels over and around it sitting in about 5 inches of water to wick up the towels and help cool it... and have a ceiling fan on high as well. And we'll also be putting in some ice at lunch time to help during the hottest part of the day. So this knocks it down slightly. Is this still way too hot to ferment this beer? And is the variation in temps making things worse? Are there any other things I can do at this point or later to help mitigate the off flavors? longer or shorter time in the primary? longer/shorter in secondary or bottle conditioning phase? it's been in the primary now about five days and can still see the airlock bubbling... the instructions say 5 to 7 days and rack it to secondary. what do you think? We also did a double pitch of liquid yeast, along with one of those "yeast fuel" capsules that AHB sells.. if that has any bearing on things.

Any advice is much appreciated... we're hoping we didn't waste over $50 on this

 

[TheMan]

It's been 5 days...your fine. It can smell like whatever it wants. I think those temps should be ok for a triple. You might get a few extra esters, but I don't think it will be anything too far out of style for that beer. I would just ferment it 3-4 weeks in primary. No secondary needed in my book.

Relax, all should be fine.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

At 75F you will get some good esters in the beer. Maybe a little more than NB but certainly not out of character for the tripel style. If you want to inhibit further production (if even possible this far into fermentation) you would need to lower the temperature. I wouldn't worry about it though, just because it smells all banana now definitely does not mean that's what it will be in the bottle/keg.

 

[McKraut]

It's been 5 days...your fine. It can smell like whatever it wants. I think those temps should be ok for a triple. You might get a few extra esters, but I don't think it will be anything too far out of style for that beer. I would just ferment it 3-4 weeks in primary. No secondary needed in my book.

Relax, all should be fine.

oh, wow.... 3-4 weeks and no secondary? i'm fine with that if that's what's best for it... i'll just keep water in the rubbermaid container then and keep the towels on it. oh and also forgot to mention we added their "alcohol boost" as well... so not sure what effect if any that might have.

 

[Shoegaze99]

Banana smell for Belgian yeasts, especially when fermenting hot, is normal. It's unlikely that it will impact the taste of your beer, especially if you're doing a big tripel. An ambient temp of 75 is a touch on the high side, but you'll probably be okay.

Ignore those instructions as far as how long to leave it in primary. Especially with a big beer like that, you want to go three weeks minimum. Give the yeast time to do its work, to clean up off flavors, etc. With a big beer like a tripel, you won't be drinking it within weeks, anyway. You want to be patient with it. Even after you bottle, give it a nice, long conditioning time.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Ignore those instructions as far as how long to leave it in primary. Especially with a big beer like that, you want to go three weeks minimum. Give the yeast time to do its work, to clean up off flavors, etc. With a big beer like a tripel, you won't be drinking it within weeks, anyway. You want to be patient with it. Even after you bottle, give it a nice, long conditioning time.

+1 those kits make great beer if you completely ignore the fermenting guidelines. Last kit I did said primary 3-5 days then secondary 10-14. Not a good idea. Primary for 3-4 weeks. Secondary only when needed, i.e., dry hopping, adding flavoring etc.

 

[TheMan]

oh, wow.... 3-4 weeks and no secondary? i'm fine with that if that's what's best for it... i'll just keep water in the rubbermaid container then and keep the towels on it. oh and also forgot to mention we added their "alcohol boost" as well... so not sure what effect if any that might have.

Like I said, secondary is not needed in MY opinion. This is not at all what is universally "best" for it. Other brewers on here use a secondary and find it to be better. You will have to decide for yourself which you like.

The general consensus of everybody, however, is that the instructions are a bit short in fermenting time. 7-10 days then to secondary seems more appropriate than the 3-5 days they tell you on paper.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

The general consensus of everybody, however, is that the instructions are a bit short in fermenting time. 7-10 days then to secondary seems more appropriate than the 3-5 days they tell you on paper.

I would have to say even 7-10 days is too short for most yeast to clean up. Three to four weeks is a much safer bet for clean, clear and finished beer.
Either way, the kits tell you to ferment fast so you buy another kit sooner. Beer's like BBQ, 'Tis better when ya wait.

 

[nunyafnb]

I am in the non-secondary camp, but even I like to age big beers after long primaries. Personally, (remember, this is my opinion, and brewing is all about freedom of choice!) I would rack it to secondary after AT LEAST a month long primary. I just racked a tripel I made to a keg after an almost (I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but it is MY beer, after all) 4 month primary (I wouldn't recommend that long for you, this was just my personal choice. A month or so should be plenty, but check with a hydrometer to be sure before racking or bottling) purged the air from the keg with CO2, and then released the pressure, and continue to do so every couple days, and I will let it sit for as long as I can bear to stare at it! Bulk aging big beers REALLY smooths them out. If I didn't have a secondary vessel, I would bottle it after a long primary and let it age in the bottle as long as I could stand it.

Oh, I just remembered you already bottled it and were trying it REALLY early. RDWHAHB!!! Give it some time to condition and smooth out! Seriously. Time solves just about anything when it comes to homebrewing. Brew another low gravity sessionable recipe to drink in the meantime and you may really apppreciate the tripel later.

 

[McKraut]

awesome... i appreciate all of the advice here. i guess we will just tough it out and leave it in the primary a few weeks (or a couple in the primary and the rest in the secondary maybe?)... and how long do I need to be doing the ice addition around the bucket? Is that something I need to be doing every day for the next few weeks? or more important the first couple weeks? It's a hassle but whatever I need to do I'll do...

luckily we have two primary buckets and two plastic carboys. can anyone recommend a very safe beer for higher temps (75+) that i can find on AHB to brew in the meantime (that we don't need to ferment and condition for a super long time)?

 

[TheMan]

Temperature control is critical in the begining stages, lesser in the conditioning. Check the gravity after a week and when it is close to FG then you can quit worrying about swapping out the ice. There is a guy on here that did an experiment side by side of a batch that was temp controlled for the entire fermentation vs. one that was temp controlled for only the first 10 days. He reported that the results were not too different between the beers.

As for a warmer fermenting beer, Saison's do well in the higher end. 75+ is a bit high for most yeasts.

 

[McKraut]

Is there much of a negative impact of fluctuating temps when fermenting? Just wondering if it's a huge deal, or if it's a bigger deal just for the first, etc. And I asked AHB about whether I should leave it in the primary or rack it to a secondary.. And the response was that there wasn't any benefit from leaving it in the primary... just downsides. Though I think we may still take people's advice here and just leave it in the primary.

And regarding the ester Cooper lager/ale I mentioned, might the apple/banana taste dissipate if it's just left conditioning in the bottle for a few more weeks?

 

[TheMan]

Is there much of a negative impact of fluctuating temps when fermenting?

It is not ideal for it to fluctuate. Depending how big the changes are it would affect it more or less negatively. Stable temp is most crucial in the first stages of fermentation. After about 7-10 days the initial fermentation is pretty much settled down and temp changes won't have AS negative of an effect. It may be noticeable, might not. On a full flavored Belgian or some similar beer I doubt it would be noticeable.

And the response was that there wasn't any benefit from leaving it in the primary... just downsides.

If you ask half the people on this board they will tell you transfering to secondary has very few benefits, (the other half will agree with AHB) mostly downsides...Increased chance of infection, increased chance of oxidation, etc. It's entirely up to you on which you prefer, both work from what I've seen. And I haven't seen any difference. If you prefer futzing with your beer a lot, like some people do, then by all means secondary it.

And regarding the ester Cooper lager/ale I mentioned, might the apple/banana taste dissipate if it's just left conditioning in the bottle for a few more weeks?

It might. You may need more time than that. Only time will tell.