Double IPA Trillium Vicinity Clone

[stonebrewer]

Looking at the recipe, I think it will be close. Might be a little light on the hops, but it is the pale not the ipa or iipa, so it might be okay. For the IPAs, I use about 12 oz of hops vice the 4 in the pale recipe. If I were to make it, I would likely split the difference. Their beers have a simple malt profile, and they only have a couple of profiles for the malts and then vary the hops and adjuncts (honey, grape must, etc) to create different IPAs...and it works!

I think their stouts are out of this world good as well.

 

[h22lude]

Morphed this recipe again last night into a Congress Street clone by tweaking a few things (Pale instead of Pils, Galaxy and Columbus). Hoping it comes out okay as I noticed the starter did not smell right AFTER I pitched it. Had been running it on the stir plate for a couple of weeks (forgot about it...gulp!) and pitched it even though I thought about using starters already made up and in the fridge. Took a whiff off the flask afterwards and it smelled sour. Oh well, it was a 2.5G batch, so if I have to do it again, it will be quick and easy to replicate. :fro:

Would you mind posting that recipe? Congress is my favorite Trillium beer....well maybe tied with Mettle but either way I'd love to have this on tap.

 

[j1laskey]

I haven't had the non-DDH version in a while, in fact I haven't seen many non-DDH versions of anything for a while. Maybe that's why I don't recall that much late. Has anyone given this recipe a try as-is and as stated and done a side by side?

I have brewed this FPPA recipe from BYO many times, and it is just about spot on. I live within walking distance to both the Fort Point location and the new Trillgarden so I have easy access for comparison. I will say, that I find my version to be a bit thinner in mouth feel. I am also brewing BIAB in a 10 gallon pot, on a deck on the second floor of a triple decker, in Southie...so my mash efficiency might lend to the slightly thinner mouth feel.

 

[grassfeeder]

I have brewed this FPPA recipe from BYO many times, and it is just about spot on. I live within walking distance to both the Fort Point location and the new Trillgarden so I have easy access for comparison. I will say, that I find my version to be a bit thinner in mouth feel. I am also brewing BIAB in a 10 gallon pot, on a deck on the second floor of a triple decker, in Southie...so my mash efficiency might lend to the slightly thinner mouth feel.

I'll take that as good a comparison as I could expect to ever get. I only get into town about 4 times a year and bring a suitcase just to fill with some Trillium and Night Shift so I don't always get to do a side by side of what I want. Now if they just put a tap in Santarpios I may move back!

 

[stonebrewer]

Would you mind posting that recipe? Congress is my favorite Trillium beer....well maybe tied with Mettle but either way I'd love to have this on tap.

Sure thing...will do so when I get home tonight.

<EDIT> Done. See next post. Cheers!

Oh and BTW, I had the Dialed-In with pinot gris juice last time I was up in the Boston area and it was mind blowingly good. These guys really know how to change one variable and make a whole new experience! Cheers!

 

[stonebrewer]

Recipe Name: Congress Street Clone
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 1318 London Ale III
Yeast Starter: 2 Liter
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.014
IBU: 37
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5-6 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days at 60F
Additional Fermentation: NA
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): NA

Water Prep
Added phosphoric acid to hit mash PH of 5.28
Calcium 111 <- note that I did not update my water prep...ignore this section!
Sodium 59
Sulfate 77
Chloride 208

Mash
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)
10.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
19 oz Caramel C10 (10.0 SRM)

Mashed at 150 for 60 minutes

Hops
1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min 59.2 IBUs
3.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs (chill to 170 before pitching hops into whirlpool)

Other Boil Ingredients
10.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) 4.7 %
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrients (Boil 10.0 mins)

Dry Hops
5.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs

Put all dry hops in the fermenter day 3-4 to limit O2 exposure.

Fermentation
Fermented at 60F for 7 days in a Cornelius Keg. Attempted to reduce exposure to oxygen as much as possible. Pushed to a serving keg that was purged.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note - the above was scaled from a 2.75G recipe for my Zymatic. I would probably drop the C10 a little and up the dextrose to accommodate. Also, I cut and pasted the original post and just edited it to make it CS. Some numbers (SRA, IBU, etc) may not make sense as I did not take this straight out of BS. Apologies for being lazy tonight...rough day at work!

I am drinking this right now and I would say it is a little too bitter to be a clone of Congress. I think when I brew it again, I will drop the FWH down to 1oz and if it is still too bitter to be CS, drop again to 0.5oz. To be clear, it is not overly bitter just more so that the beer I am trying to clone. I would also like to dry hop this a second time, but am afraid of the O2 exposure, especially with a 2.5 gallon batch on the Zymatic. Perhaps I will put this on my 10G system and DDH it with a full keg.

 

[h22lude]

Sure thing...will do so when I get home tonight.

<EDIT> Done. See next post. Cheers!

Oh and BTW, I had the Dialed-In with pinot gris juice last time I was up in the Boston area and it was mind blowingly good. These guys really know how to change one variable and make a whole new experience! Cheers!

Thank you! This will be my next batch.

That variation is my favorite Dialed-In. Be interesting to have a few variations side by side.

 

[elburrogrande]

I would think 1.5 oz of Columbus at 60 min would get you much more than 37 IBUs. Maybe cut it back to .25 -.5 oz

 

[marjen]

When I started with a fort point clone I added .25 oz first boil and .75 oz Columbus @10 mins. This was per the article. 1.5 is probably way to much. My bitterness seemed spot on.

 

[stonebrewer]

You guys may be right, but that is how I brew it and I like it a lot. I just put another batch in the kegerator that I have been too lazy to transfer...but running low on beer will get even the laziest of brewers back to task. Since it is going to be a hot, long weekend I think I will try to get another brew day or two in. May try adding some pinot noir juice this time or next.

 

[Farfrom83]

Im getting ready to brew a similar NEIPA and had a question as far as a water profile goes.I've only been homebrewing for a few months so forgive my newbness. Ive recently fallen down the rabbit hole of water chemistry and feel like Im starting to get the hang of it, yet i have many questions.

Anyway, my latest water profile looks like the following and im just curious if you think its suitable for a NEIPA.

- Calcium : 114
- Mag: 2
- Sodium: 27
- Sulfate:104
- Chloride: 208

Also wondering if anybody thinks i should add kosher salt to get my sodium up.

Thanks for the awesome recipes and shared knowledge.

 

[stonebrewer]

I am no water expert...I am just a beginner in that respect...for whatever reason I decided to IGNORE the major ingredient in my beers for many years and have just gotten into water chemistry in the last 2 years or so (thanks to talks at homebrewcon in Baltimore). Your numbers are all in the acceptable ranges except Chloride, which *I* think is in the acceptable range for an IPA. I think you are fine with your profile, but hopefully someone a lot more knowledgeable will chime in. Your profile looks close to many of my Trillium clones...

Sodium - I target 50-60 and add sea salt to get there...

Cheers!

 

[h22lude]

You could try brewing the beer without adding sodium. Sodium isn't really necessary. I use RO and never add Na. It will bring out some sweetness which could be fine for this beer but 27ppm will be fine. I personally wouldn't add more

 

[thehaze]

One of my next brews will be an adaptation clone of Vicinity. I will use.

6000 gr Pilsner / 70.4%
1000 gr Flaked Wheat / 11.7%
1000 gr CaraPils / 11.7#
525 gr Cane Sugar / 6.2%
..............................................................................................
Hops
25 gr Columbus 60 minutes
15 gr Columbus 15 minutes
15 gr Citra 10 minutes
15 gr Galaxy 5 minutes
25 gr Columbus Whirlpool
25 gr Citra Whirlpool
25 gr Galaxy Whirlpool
100 gr Columbus Dry hopping
100 gr Citra Dry hopping
100 gr Galaxy Dry hopping

CaCla2 133 and MgSO4 130. This will be a blend of yeasts consisting of S-04, WB-06 and T-58.

It is kind of a hybrid, but I am trying to find a house DIPA recipe.

IBU:60
ABV: 8%

 

[stonebrewer]

I like the choice of yeasts...sounds like you have been reading isomerization's thread on Tree House yeasts?

Only change I would suggest is to get rid of the 5-10-15 minute additions and whirlpool them instead. I think you will like the results better. I stopped doing them and only do a bittering charge, WP, and DH on my IPAs and they come out great!

 

[Farfrom83]

I don’t have a whirlpool setup or pump system. Do you think I could just steep for 20-30 minutes at 160-170 , stir every 5-10 minutes and get similar results?

 

[thehaze]

I like the choice of yeasts...sounds like you have been reading isomerization's thread on Tree House yeasts?

Only change I would suggest is to get rid of the 5-10-15 minute additions and whirlpool them instead. I think you will like the results better. I stopped doing them and only do a bittering charge, WP, and DH on my IPAs and they come out great!

I did and I am still reading it. I love NEIPAs, but there are none I can get here where I live, which is kinda sad. I had to order a few from UK...

So I make my own. I bottle, so that's another inconvenient aspect of my life. Hehe...

But I have successfully made NEIPAs using Wyeast 1318. I still have to try Conan yeast, and maybe WLP095 Burlington Ale Yeast or WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast.

But until then, seeing that I can easy get my hands on dry yeast, I thought I would try to find out which dry yeast ratios would give me a taste I can work with, going from what i can read in the Tree House thread.

I am pretty excited. :rockin:

 

[thehaze]

I want to also add that, because I bottle, I am a bit scared of brewing more NEIPAs, as they oxidize in the bottle a few days after bottling. The beers are good within the first 7 days, but go bad afterwards: the colour becomes darker, there is a significant aroma and flavour loss, turns a bit sourish... sad.

I also believe this has happened due to the dry hop charge added to fermentation.

I usually dry hop IPAs with 8-9 oz hops and there are no issues there. The beer stays fine for weeks, so what I want to avoid, is that premature oxidation and I believe, for me at least, that can be achieved by skipping the mid fermentation dry hop.

The water profile wil be soft and the beer will be dry hopped with large amounts of hops.

The adaptation of the Vicinity cloe is something I want to try off and see if the results match the expectations.

Could I be lying to myself with regards to the style or the possible oxidation?

 

[stonebrewer]

I don’t have a whirlpool setup or pump system. Do you think I could just steep for 20-30 minutes at 160-170 , stir every 5-10 minutes and get similar results?

Absolutely. Many folks do exactly that! Best of luck!

 

[stonebrewer]

@thehaze - I never bottled other than from my keg taps on rare occasion so cannot offer much guidance in that area. As far as oxidation goes, I highly recommend that you consider building a closed fermentation system and keg. I have done this and my IPAs are SOOOOOO much better and last so much longer! I am drinking a month old IPA as I type and it has no oxidation and remains cloudy and full of hop flavor and aroma. Took a long time to get here, but the nail in the coffin was when I started fermenting under pressure and transferring to a water purged serving keg. I dry hop on day 3-4 of fermentation, which means active fermentation is ongoing and any O2 introduced is consumed by the yeasts as they are still quite active.

S04 and WLP007 are the same yeast and I think you will LOVE it! I use it and 1318 for all my IPAs and they both are fantastic. I have used Conan but never got the flavor profile I was looking for. Might be because it was before I got better at brewing IPAs, so I will give it another go sometime. Still have a bunch in the fridge I can grow up.

If I run across a "fix" for the bottling issue, I will be sure to point it out. Best of luck...

 

[grassfeeder]

If I run across a "fix" for the bottling issue, I will be sure to point it out. Best of luck...

I've had luck bottling from the tap (legged beer) - I purge the bottle with C02 first and cap it immediately. Never done an age test but have had them last a month at least this way. I bottled a batch for a friend this way and it worked out.

 

[thehaze]

@thehaze - I never bottled other than from my keg taps on rare occasion so cannot offer much guidance in that area. As far as oxidation goes, I highly recommend that you consider building a closed fermentation system and keg. I have done this and my IPAs are SOOOOOO much better and last so much longer! I am drinking a month old IPA as I type and it has no oxidation and remains cloudy and full of hop flavor and aroma. Took a long time to get here, but the nail in the coffin was when I started fermenting under pressure and transferring to a water purged serving keg. I dry hop on day 3-4 of fermentation, which means active fermentation is ongoing and any O2 introduced is consumed by the yeasts as they are still quite active.

S04 and WLP007 are the same yeast and I think you will LOVE it! I use it and 1318 for all my IPAs and they both are fantastic. I have used Conan but never got the flavor profile I was looking for. Might be because it was before I got better at brewing IPAs, so I will give it another go sometime. Still have a bunch in the fridge I can grow up.

If I run across a "fix" for the bottling issue, I will be sure to point it out. Best of luck...

Thanks for the reply.

I have a few question regarding the hops choices and ratios in this beer or similar attempts.

I can see you prefer a Galaxy dominant one.

Would a 1:1:1 / Columbus:Citra:Galaxy be worse or less of a fruit/juicy bomb?

I just recently started using Columbus a bit more and it seems like a very versatile hop. Of course Citra and Galaxy are second to none, but would a equally split ratio work as well?

Or is it one of those things we yet have to try out?

 

[stonebrewer]

@thehaze - I think you try it and see! There are a lot of brewers who prefer to use non 1:1 ratios of hops, as some will dominate the profile and drown out their brother and sister hops. I am a big fan of Galaxy and have a lot on hand for this and other similar IPAs I brew. I get more Galaxy out of the real thing, so I chose to emphasize it. That said, Trillium uses the same basic recipe for all their IPAs and changes either the hops or the base malt, or adds an adjunct like grape must. Therefore, I think you can use most any high alpha hop combination and get a great beer...

Cheers!

 

[grassfeeder]

yep. I usually use a 1:1:1 OR A 2:1:1 depending on the hop. I just made a take of Fort Point and added .25# of lactose and did all Galaxy Hops from the Whirlpool on and al Columbus prior to.

 

[thehaze]

One more question:

Would 300 gr ( 10 oz ) of hops be enough for dry hopping a 5 gallons, 8% ABV DIPA?

I am actually thinking this might not be enough, and would like to bump it up to 14 oz, but only if 10 oz is really not enough.

 

[thehaze]

I have not yet brewed this one, but did you ( stonebrewer ) get to brew this again, using more wheat?

How did it turn out?

 

[thehaze]

Would there be a negative impact on the beer, if I were to choose to drop the CaraPils and the low Lovibond crystal malt?

Say, just use Pilsner, Flaked Wheat and some Flaked oats. That's it.

 

[grassfeeder]

One more question:

Would 300 gr ( 10 oz ) of hops be enough for dry hopping a 5 gallons, 8% ABV DIPA?

I am actually thinking this might not be enough, and would like to bump it up to 14 oz, but only if 10 oz is really not enough.

yes, I believe it to be enough.

 

[stonebrewer]

Sorry for the lack of replies...was out of country for a while!

10 Oz is enough. I would not discourage you from using more, but this is a hoppy beer with 10 ounces. I have just kicked the keg of a beer (in RECORD TIME!) where I used cryo hops in the dry hop. WOW! It was my take on Surly Abrasive and I thought it was better than the real thing! So the only thing I would tweak right now with this recipe is to make the Citra cryo hops instead of regular pellets.

You can change the grain bill and not majorly affect this beer. I used what Trillium uses just to get close to what they make, but I just made a beer with just 2 row and golden naked oats and it was fantastic, so simplifying the malt bill will not hurt, IMHO.

 

[degivens]

So it wasn't off gassing. It was still full of sugar (honey, actually)! And I, like a rookie brewer, decided to rush and not take a gravity reading. I poured a glass of sugar beer and decided to pull it out of the kegerator, hook a spunding valve up, put it in my temperature chamber, and flew off to Hawaii for a few weeks. Got back last week, just now getting "normal" and popped it back in the kegerator. First pour was all yeast (last night). Tonight, after running to IKEA to satisfy family needs, I came home, sat down, and poured myself a beer...then another...then another. WOW! This is so damned good! It could use some more dry hops (I lost track and may not have done all the dry hopping I planned!!), but I would put this up against Trillium's Artaic (now cutting tiles) any day. Great nose, flavor is spot on, and hoppy as anything I would buy in VT or MA! Lovin' these NE homebrewed IPA's everyone!

How much honey did you use?