Tri clamp INSIDE fermenter

[kduvey]

G’day

I’ve just ordered myself a spiffy new stainless steel conical fermenter. Its got a SS coil inside for cooling. The coil is connected to the inside of the vessel via tri clamps - see photo.

I am a little concerned about the sanitation of this. I understand these clamps are not made to be inside of a vessel like this and may no longer be considered sanitary. I keep going back and forth from being worried about it to thinking it’s a great design and all I’ll need to do is thoughly clean the clamps between brews and all will be sweet.

Anyone smarter and/or more experienced than I have any thoughts on this design?

Kev

 

[Vale71]

I'm speechless...
Yes, it's definitely not sanitary and a pain in the a... to clean, practically impossible without disassembling it every time. I would just send the thing back and ask for a refund if that's an option.

 

[kduvey]

Wouldn’t I need to disassemble and clean every time anyways regardless of the way the coil was attached? Is there a design out there that would allow you to actually keep the coil in there while cleaning?

 

[4of7]

Maybe it was just shipped to you that way. Have you tried on the outside? Yes I bet you did ,send it back and ask for refund.Brew on

 

[mongoose33]

Wouldn’t I need to disassemble and clean every time anyways regardless of the way the coil was attached? Is there a design out there that would allow you to actually keep the coil in there while cleaning?

I've got a Spike CF10 with the chilling coil. I can use a CIP--clean-in-place--ball attached to the lid to clean it. The chilling coil is attached through the lid, using a 4" tri-clamp on the outside of the lid, not the inside.

I was going to suggest a CIP regimen for this, but seeing as there apparently is also a tri-clamp on the bottom where the coil exits, it's not clear that you could reach all the parts of the coil--though the lower part would be immersed in cleaning solution. This also presumes you have a pump to do that.

So--yes, you'd need to disassemble this every time to clean. Let me ask this--how easy or difficult is it to reach the clamp on the bottom of the coil? Looks hard to do.

I'm with the others on this--send it back.

Mind telling us who the manufacturer is and from where you bought it?

 

[Vale71]

Wouldn’t I need to disassemble and clean every time anyways regardless of the way the coil was attached? Is there a design out there that would allow you to actually keep the coil in there while cleaning?

Any design where the surfaces are flush with each other and/or gaskets and there are no nooks and crannies for dirt to build up and start a colony of beer-spoiling bacteria. Se the Chronical Brew Master line of vessels from SSB for example.
This solution is really the worst ever, you have exposed threads and the whole clamp is like a cavern where all sorts of nasty stuff can and will accumulate over time. It's a guaranteed infection if I ever saw one...

 

[Dland]

Agree that it is a little odd. Is there a tri clamp on lid of fermentor, can you ask manufacturer what they recommend for cleaning?

My guess is they intend for you to use a CIP ball and pump. It could work OK, can't tell from picture. If your wort level is ever below top of coil, it will probably need some manual cleaning, which might be a bit of a pain.

 

[4of7]

Kev more pics

 

[Lax coach]

I don't see any major problems with your HLT as shown. Oh wait, it's supposed to be a fermenter?

 

[Rev2010]

I'm with the others, send it back. And yeah, what company is that? I think that with proper sanitizing, like filling it all the way up with sanitizer should for the most part cover you, but yeah I would not at all be comfortable with CIP with that as I seriously doubt it's going to get everything in the threads and nooks of the tri-clamp. You will need to fully remove and clean all the parts each time which seems a bit of a pain. I've never seen a fermenter of any kind with tri-clamps on the *inside* and likely for very good reason.


Rev.

 

[kduvey]

Thanks for the replys and thoughts guys

No more photos yet as I’ve yet to receive it. I ordered it from a factory in China, for very cheap, obviously knowing I’m taking a risk. There is no option to send it back and canceling the order is probably more hassle than it’s worth.

Busting out the angle grinder and tig welder is probably more of a realistic option here, albeit my last resort. Read on

It’s only a 30l fermenter. I was never planning on cleaning it with a CIP ball anyways. I don’t mind spending 20min cleaning it after each batch, I only do maybe 1 batch a month anyways. In fact, I’d take out the coil and clean it every batch anyways, regardless of the design. If anything, this design is tooless and makes that easier!

So is there a consensus that I’ll be able to just soak the clamps in some PBW and scrub with a pipe cleaner after each brew, then soak in star san prior to assembling for the next batch?

Guess I’m specifically worried about unpolished surfaces holding bacteria in little microscopic voids and scratches, is this an actual concern? If so, possibly some of the ‘high pressure’ tri clamps will be better as they seem to be polished on all surfaces, and I could just use brand new 316 or 304 stainless bolts and wing nuts for each batch, a box of 50 is only a few bucks where i live.

 

[mongoose33]

If you're taking it apart, just boil the clamps.

 

[kduvey]

If you're taking it apart, just boil the clamps.

Shoulda thought of that. I suppose I could bake them I’f I’m paranoid

 

[augiedoggy]

if you take them off when emptying and throw them in some pbw or starsan right away I doubt they will ever be a concern

 

[kevink]

That is completely $hitty and unsanitary, but I would use it. When you have things that can't be sanitized with starsan because of little nooks and crannies like threads or O2 stones, you just have to boil them. It's an extra step, but you have to do what you have to do.

Using new bolts for each batch is not going to do anything for you. The new ones will probably be dirtier than the ones you already cleaned and used!

 

[filthyastronaut]

It'll be fine if you are willing to disassemble for cleaning and sani every time. Most professional breweries do this with their fittings post CIP anyway.

 

[augiedoggy]

That is completely $hitty and unsanitary, but I would use it. When you have things that can't be sanitized with starsan because of little nooks and crannies like threads or O2 stones, you just have to boil them. It's an extra step, but you have to do what you have to do.

Using new bolts for each batch is not going to do anything for you. The new ones will probably be dirtier than the ones you already cleaned and used!

ive never once boiled my 02 stones... star san has always worked fine.. do you know of someone who actually got an infection this way?

This is really no different than the many people using the cheap 3 piece ball valves that come with the ss brewtech conicals or even the old blichmann conicals.. There are plenty of nooks and crannies and even threads in those which make them non sanitary along with the thremocouple threaded weldless fittings. a tri clamp ferrule is actually really easy to clean and sanitize compared to all that.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm speechless...
Yes, it's definitely not sanitary and a pain in the a... to clean, practically impossible without disassembling it every time. I would just send the thing back and ask for a refund if that's an option.

Again just to put things into perspective.. just like all the threads and weldless fitting in a blichman or ssbrewtech conical which likely cost 3 times what the op is paying for this.

just rememebr its still much more sanitary and easier than the chillers many home brewers use..

 

[Vale71]

Sorry, but I don't see any exposed threads inside my SSB Unitank. And of course all the TC clamps are outside, where they belong.
There is really no reason to place a TC clamp inside a vessel, this is really the stupidest design I've ever come across.

 

[kh54s10]

It looks like it would be really easy to disassemble if you can reach the bottom one easily. It will require taking it apart every time. That may be even better than ones that require CIP. I don't have one so take my advice with caution. But I don't see anything really bad here.

 

[Vale71]

Unfortunately, to be 100% sure you'd have to take the clamp itself apart, as there are plenty of unreachable spots where crud might accumulate if you just soak it. I don't think you can really do that without destroying the clamp.
Same goes for sanitizing with chemicals. The only way to prevent this from turning into a recurring infection is to boil them each time as heat will reach everywhere.

 

[kevink]

ive never once boiled my 02 stones... star san has always worked fine.. do you know of someone who actually got an infection this way?

This is really no different than the many people using the cheap 3 piece ball valves that come with the ss brewtech conicals or even the old blichmann conicals.. There are plenty of nooks and crannies and even threads in those which make them non sanitary along with the thremocouple threaded weldless fittings. a tri clamp ferrule is actually really easy to clean and sanitize compared to all that.

There's no way in hell I'm going to trust that Starsan is going to get into every single pore on an O2 stone. You can pretty much guarantee that it will not. Considering the huge amount of time and money put into my batches, I do not take any chances. It takes 10 minutes to boil it.

 

[tll77]

I can't really tell the scale from the pic to define the size of this conical(looks like 7 gallons?), but given the relatively small size of conicals for home brewing(even .5bbl), why bother with CIP. In fact, isn't this why the entire top comes off the conical?
Take the clamps off and clean them and the coil, when they are clean, reassemble and sanitize in place. They are designed for use in sanitary systems.

edit: I see it is 30l, why CIP?

 

[kevink]

No, a tri-clamp clamp is not designed to be sanitary or be used inside of a sanitary system.

 

[VVbrewery]

There's no way in hell I'm going to trust that Starsan is going to get into every single pore on an O2 stone. You can pretty much guarantee that it will not. Considering the huge amount of time and money put into my batches, I do not take any chances. It takes 10 minutes to boil it.

I've had stone for years that all I've done is take it out of the wort, hit it with a burst of O2 to blow out some of the wort, soak in PBW, rinse and stored in a jar filled with StarSan. I've never had an infection.

 

[kh54s10]

I've had stone for years that all I've done is take it out of the wort, hit it with a burst of O2 to blow out some of the wort, soak in PBW, rinse and stored in a jar filled with StarSan. I've never had an infection.

I'v had a stone for years. All I do is rinse it under the kitchen faucet. I store it on a shelf. I spray it with Starsan before use. Never an infection.

OH CRAP! I just jinxed myself!

 

[kevink]

I've never had an infection.

Neither have I!

 

[Rev2010]

There's no way in hell I'm going to trust that Starsan is going to get into every single pore on an O2 stone. You can pretty much guarantee that it will not.

Well, you can count me in with the others. I only ever sanitize it in StarSan and when done using, after blowing out with an O2 blast, I hold it under my running faucet and rotate it around several times. I then put it in my sanitizer bucket and swish it around and let air dry for a day or so before covering the top with the little ziplock baggie it came in. Been doing this for many years now and not once ever have I had an infected batch. So... it appears to be working fine for all of us.


Rev.

 

[kevink]

I'm sure it's possible to not infect a batch with a stone that has been "sanitized" with Starsan. All I'm saying is that contact sanitizers are not able to sanitize non-sanitary parts. Threads, like on the tri-clamp in the photo of the fermenter above, and O2 stones are not sanitary parts. The only way to sanitize non-sanitary parts is to heat them. You may never have any issues using Starsan on a stone, but eventually you may get screwed. At that point, you'll probably start boiling it.

 

[Rev2010]

At that point, you'll probably start boiling it.

Not really, at that point I'd say "been working fine for so many years it's a fluke" and keep doing what I'm doing. Boiling is a more involved process and the point being made is if soaking in sanitizer can't reach some knooks and crannies well then the wort isn't going to reach those areas either. I do agree as stated earlier in the thread that I wouldn't accept a fermenter with triclamps on the inside but that is more cause of the extra work that will be required to properly clean it after each use.


Rev.