Total NooB and it's already becoming too much

[pretzelb]

This is the answer to your question.

Can't get much easier than this as long as you have a way to measure the volume of the first runnings in the kettle. That can be done by making a measuring stick out of copper pipe or something (Start with empty kettle and add subsequent gallons of water to it; use a sharpie to mark each increment on the pipe). I used this method for years.

This is a simple solution to what can be intimidating when trying to use formulas and programs. Just figure out the mash amount and estimate what you want fit preboil and use the measuring stick in between.

 

[normonster]

DownloAd the Sparge Pal ap and you're set.

Maybe consider BIAB no sparge to make your start as easy and successful as possible. Maybe try some simple recipes first.

 

[hucklb]

I have been brewing for about 11 months and have made about a dozen batches, the last few all grain. Assuming no equipment limitations, I suggest that you get the Palmer book mentioned earlier and the Gordon Strong recipe book. The beginning of Strong's book discuss his gold medal winning brewing techniques. Follow both as a guide. With regard to mashing in, both suggest 2 quarts per pound of grain. You can calculate strike water temps using the free and helpful mashing calculators found on Brewer's Friend. I also have Beer Smith and find setting up its equipment profile that drives the rest of the program to be a bit confusing. As others have said, after you drain your first running determine their volume and batch sparge with enough water to hit your target preboil volume. It really sounds more complicated than it is. Don't worry about hitting efficiency numbers yet. You'll still get good tasting beer and that is what this is all about anyway. After a few batches and more reading, you can start to refine your technique and start fooling around with more advanced issues like treating your water, fermentation chambers, cold crashing, etc. I'm just getting to that point now but have enjoyed all of the beers I have brewed to date without them. Good luck!!

 

[Captain_Eo]

Another option to consider:

A long-ass time ago I brewed with extract. Then a couple years ago my wife got me this Brooklyn Brew Shop 1-gallon kit:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beer-making-kits/everyday-ipa-1-gal-kit

along with their recipe book:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/books/brooklyn-brew-shop-beer-making-book

and I was off to the all-grain races. At the time I was at least as NooB-y as the OP, and my beer turned out great. There wasn't a lot of finished product, but it was much more satisfying than brewing with extract.

From there, it was easy to transition to 5-gallon all-grain batches.

Cheers!

 

[brewcat]

If you have a big enough HLT, heat extra water then sparge until you reach boil volume.

 

[Ike]

I don't want to get into this and make a heap of mistakes that will eventually put me off brewing after spending good money investing in equipment. Thanks for the advice

I couldn't agree more. My humble suggestion: don't try to tackle too much at once.

I know you've said you don't want to do extract, and I can dig that. Although I do still mostly extract brews, I'm beginning to feel like others have mentioned: that I'm making Kool-Aid (add powder to water, stir, wait a bit, serve) rather than brewing. My first BIAB turned out OK (not great, mind you, but OK) and I'll be trying some more once the pipeline is full enough to be able to absorb a failure or two on the BIAB front. I, too, am pretty intimidated by the amount of learning and effort that it takes to make the leap from extract to all grain (BIAB or otherwise).

SO, my suggestion is to do enough homework to brew a decent beer, but realize you'll be learning as you go and just let the learning curve handle itself. Don't expect an award-winning batch the first time around, pick one (or at the most, two) things to change or improve on each batch.

SO, maybe your first brew is all extract with some steeping grains.
NEXT, do a partial mash/partial extract.
THEN, try a few BIAB batches.
THEN, if you feel like it, try going old-school all grain with the garage full of vessels and transfers and sparging and pH checking and all the other stuff (obviously, you can tell what step intimidates me the most).

MOST IMPORTANTLY: keep having fun. This is a hobby, and it's supposed to be something you enjoy. If you stop enjoying it, don't give up completely, just do whatever you need to do to make it easy enough so that it's fun again.

BREW ON!

 

[normonster]

...

 

[hucklb]

OK, one last word encouragement. I'm sitting here doing a side-by-side comparison Founders Breakfast Stout and a mocha espresso stout that I bought as a kit (all grain) from Love 2 Brew, my local homebrew shop. As I indicated earlier, I've been brewing for about 11 months and this was my third all grain batch. I've yet to begin tinkering with adjusting water or any other advanced brewing techniques. Even though I missed my original gravity by a few points, I have to say that the flavor of the beer I brewed is dead on to the flavor of the Founders Freakfast Stout. Read a few books, listen to some trusted advisors and give it a whirl. It is a lot of fun and the results will most likely be delicious.

 

[Roadie]

Does anyone else find it odd that this thread was a hit/run with the OP never chiming in again?

 

[ericbw]

Does anyone else find it odd that this thread was a hit/run with the OP never chiming in again?

He was afraid he might lose interest. Maybe he already did?

 

[specharka]

I couldn't agree more. My humble suggestion: don't try to tackle too much at once.

I know you've said you don't want to do extract, and I can dig that. Although I do still mostly extract brews, I'm beginning to feel like others have mentioned: that I'm making Kool-Aid (add powder to water, stir, wait a bit, serve) rather than brewing. My first BIAB turned out OK (not great, mind you, but OK) and I'll be trying some more once the pipeline is full enough to be able to absorb a failure or two on the BIAB front. I, too, am pretty intimidated by the amount of learning and effort that it takes to make the leap from extract to all grain (BIAB or otherwise).

SO, my suggestion is to do enough homework to brew a decent beer, but realize you'll be learning as you go and just let the learning curve handle itself. Don't expect an award-winning batch the first time around, pick one (or at the most, two) things to change or improve on each batch.

SO, maybe your first brew is all extract with some steeping grains.
NEXT, do a partial mash/partial extract.
THEN, try a few BIAB batches.
THEN, if you feel like it, try going old-school all grain with the garage full of vessels and transfers and sparging and pH checking and all the other stuff (obviously, you can tell what step intimidates me the most).

MOST IMPORTANTLY: keep having fun. This is a hobby, and it's supposed to be something you enjoy. If you stop enjoying it, don't give up completely, just do whatever you need to do to make it easy enough so that it's fun again.

BREW ON!

Forgive me an analogy here...this is like saying

"Oh, you want to learn how to drive a standard shift transmission?"
"Well first you need to learn how to drive a car."
"So take the wheel from your friend a few times and see how that feels."
"If you don't die, maybe try out a few laps in the parking lot."
"Then, take some driving lessons on an automatic."
"Master the automatic. Get a few speeding tickets."
"Buy a new car. This time, WITH PADDLE SHIFTERS!"
"Pretend that's the same thing as a standard."
"Eventually you might be confident enough to try to learn how to drive stick."
"And thats how you drive stick."

Except in this case, the brewing process can't kill you and doesn't require a license.

Go all grain.

 

[ericbw]

Forgive me an analogy here...this is like saying



"Oh, you want to learn how to drive a standard shift transmission?"

"Well first you need to learn how to drive a car."

"So take the wheel from your friend a few times and see how that feels."

"If you don't die, maybe try out a few laps in the parking lot."

"Then, take some driving lessons on an automatic."

"Master the automatic. Get a few speeding tickets."

"Buy a new car. This time, WITH PADDLE SHIFTERS!"

"Pretend that's the same thing as a standard."

"Eventually you might be confident enough to try to learn how to drive stick."

"And thats how you drive stick."



Except in this case, the brewing process can't kill you and doesn't require a license.



Go all grain.

Except that your analogy is a good one for learning to drive. Extreme but realistic.

 

[Ike]

Forgive me an analogy here...this is like saying

"Oh, you want to learn how to drive a standard shift transmission?"
"Well first you need to learn how to drive a car."
"So take the wheel from your friend a few times and see how that feels."
"If you don't die, maybe try out a few laps in the parking lot."
"Then, take some driving lessons on an automatic."
"Master the automatic. Get a few speeding tickets."
"Buy a new car. This time, WITH PADDLE SHIFTERS!"
"Pretend that's the same thing as a standard."
"Eventually you might be confident enough to try to learn how to drive stick."
"And thats how you drive stick."

Except in this case, the brewing process can't kill you and doesn't require a license.

Go all grain.

I guess I'd offer the "car" the analogy as:

First, learn to drive on an automatic transmission.
Then, once you know the rules of the road and how a car behaves in general, learn to drive stick shift.
Then, once that's down, learn to drive more complex stuff like a double clutch heavy truck or high performance stick shift sports car.

Sounds like your advice is: Take the 15 year-old with the learner's permit and put them behind the wheel of the alcohol dragster or the 18 wheeler. Other than the fact that I'm not comfortable suggesting the OP is a clueless teenager.

In the end, it's all just advice. YMMV.

Ikster

 

[BrewingTravisty]

Forgive me an analogy here...this is like saying

"Oh, you want to learn how to drive a standard shift transmission?"
"Well first you need to learn how to drive a car."
"So take the wheel from your friend a few times and see how that feels."
"If you don't die, maybe try out a few laps in the parking lot."
"Then, take some driving lessons on an automatic."
"Master the automatic. Get a few speeding tickets."
"Buy a new car. This time, WITH PADDLE SHIFTERS!"
"Pretend that's the same thing as a standard."
"Eventually you might be confident enough to try to learn how to drive stick."
"And thats how you drive stick."

Except in this case, the brewing process can't kill you and doesn't require a license.

Go all grain.

I think the advice is solid advice. Learn the basics and make sure it's something you enjoy before you go all in. I made a quick transition from extract to all grain, but I'm glad that I started with extract before moving to AG. I was a little more confident, and of course I think AG is much better so far and I wouldn't go back. But, to go along with your car analogy it's much better to practice driving on the back roads a bit before you jump on the interstate.

 

[ericbw]

I think the advice is solid advice. Learn the basics and make sure it's something you enjoy before you go all in. I made a quick transition from extract to all grain, but I'm glad that I started with extract before moving to AG. I was a little more confident, and of course I think AG is much better so far and I wouldn't go back. But, to go along with your car analogy it's much better to practice driving on the back roads a bit before you jump on the interstate.

I think specharka was trying to show the extremes, but it made too much sense!

Imagine if your first brew was equal to your first drive in a standard car. Bouncing every time you take off, grinding the gears, screeching the tires, stalling out...

That would be like missing your strike temp, missing your volume, draining your wort on the ground, stuck sparge, breaking your thermometer...

 

[kh54s10]

I think the advice is solid advice. Learn the basics and make sure it's something you enjoy before you go all in. I made a quick transition from extract to all grain, but I'm glad that I started with extract before moving to AG. I was a little more confident, and of course I think AG is much better so far and I wouldn't go back. But, to go along with your car analogy it's much better to practice driving on the back roads a bit before you jump on the interstate.

I too started with extracts, then partial mash, then all grain...

BUT, that was for $$ reasons. I didn't want to do BIAB so it took a while to assemble the equipment.

I see absolutely no reason a person should not START OUT brewing all grain. It requires a bit more attention and takes longer but it is not really any more difficult than brewing extracts.

If someone researches all grain brewing, understands what it entails and is comfortable with trying it why not.

The comparison with driving, IMO is BS. You are not controlling a 4000 lb chunk of metal at 40 mph careening down the road with other 4000 lb chunks of metal passing in the other direction at 40 MPH only a few feet away.....

You are not likely to kill yourself or someone else making a mistake brewing all grain. In fact you are not even likely to make a batch that is undrinkable......

 

[BrewingTravisty]

I too started with extracts, then partial mash, then all grain...

BUT, that was for $$ reasons. I didn't want to do BIAB so it took a while to assemble the equipment.

I see absolutely no reason a person should not START OUT brewing all grain. It requires a bit more attention and takes longer but it is not really any more difficult than brewing extracts.

If someone researches all grain brewing, understands what it entails and is comfortable with trying it why not.

The comparison with driving, IMO is BS. You are not controlling a 4000 lb chunk of metal at 40 mph careening down the road with other 4000 lb chunks of metal passing in the other direction at 40 MPH only a few feet away.....

You are not likely to kill yourself or someone else making a mistake brewing all grain. In fact you are not even likely to make a batch that is undrinkable......

I agree lol they are completely different situations. I just wanted to make a car analogy too, it's what the cool kids were doing.

And there's no reason you shouldn't start with AG if you're comfortable with it. The only reason I would recommend extract is so that you have less to worry about your first couple brews and you can focus more on your sanitation. When you're doing AG, you have more things to remember making it easier to miss a step. At least that's how it is for me, I did extract first so that I could get a routine down with things like sanitation, so they would be a habit and I could put more focus into the mash, sparge etc.

Everyone is different though, so just because that worked best for me. Doesn't mean it will for everyone. If you wanna jump head first into AG go for it!

 

[ericbw]

I too started with extracts, then partial mash, then all grain...

BUT, that was for $$ reasons. I didn't want to do BIAB so it took a while to assemble the equipment.

I see absolutely no reason a person should not START OUT brewing all grain. It requires a bit more attention and takes longer but it is not really any more difficult than brewing extracts.

If someone researches all grain brewing, understands what it entails and is comfortable with trying it why not.

The comparison with driving, IMO is BS. You are not controlling a 4000 lb chunk of metal at 40 mph careening down the road with other 4000 lb chunks of metal passing in the other direction at 40 MPH only a few feet away.....

You are not likely to kill yourself or someone else making a mistake brewing all grain. In fact you are not even likely to make a batch that is undrinkable......

The why not is that if you eliminate as many variables as possible, then you can have early success. Eventually, you introduce as many new variables as you can stand. Water chemistry, better fermentation temp control, vary mash temp, vary ingredients, experiment with hop varieties, experiment with hop schedules, etc.

But if you get frustrated and give up early, then you might never make beer.

 

[thekraken]

GUYS! Guys, guys... I don't think OP is listening any more.

 

[ericbw]

GUYS! Guys, guys... I don't think OP is listening any more.

When has THAT ever mattered???

 

[kh54s10]

The why not is that if you eliminate as many variables as possible, then you can have early success. Eventually, you introduce as many new variables as you can stand. Water chemistry, better fermentation temp control, vary mash temp, vary ingredients, experiment with hop varieties, experiment with hop schedules, etc.

But if you get frustrated and give up early, then you might never make beer.

Do you really think all grain is so difficult that you are likely to get frustrated and give up. Maybe some will. But not most.... You can start out with simple all grain brewing and then expand on that!!

I brewed for 4 years before I made a sub-par brew. It is extremely sweet but makes great bread. I did start with extract + steeping grains but that was mostly for financial reasons.

GUYS! Guys, guys... I don't think OP is listening any more.

Probably not, but he may come back for a look. I just don't agree with those that think you must start with extract and learn first. All grain is just not that difficult.

And I don't want the OP to say OMG all grain is impossible, I must start with Mr Beer, advance to extract larger batch then, extract + steeping grains, then Partial mash, then all grain or I will make poison!!!

 

[thekraken]

All grain is just not that difficult.

Agreed.

 

[BigMack]

I think at this point of the OP does come back he will be even more overwhelmed by 6 pages of people arguing about who has the best analogy....

 

[ericbw]

I think at this point of the OP does come back he will be even more overwhelmed by 6 pages of people arguing about who has the best analogy....

The OP no longer matters. The thread has taken on a life of its own.

 

[ericbw]

Do you really think all grain is so difficult that you are likely to get frustrated and give up. Maybe some will. But not most.... You can start out with simple all grain brewing and then expand on that!!

Yes, I really think that. People look at everything involved and get overwhelmed. New processes and terms. They aren't on this forum because they gave up.

Yeah, I think people get frustrated and give up.

ESPECIALLY since the OP mentioned that as a concern.

Also, if you made perfect beer for 4 years before you made a mistake, I think you're the exception. Hopefully we all show improvement.

 

[normonster]

agreed.

x2.

 

[kh54s10]

The OP no longer matters. The thread has taken on a life of its own.

Yes, I really think that. People look at everything involved and get overwhelmed. New processes and terms. They aren't on this forum because they gave up.

Yeah, I think people get frustrated and give up.

ESPECIALLY since the OP mentioned that as a concern.

Also, if you made perfect beer for 4 years before you made a mistake, I think you're the exception. Hopefully we all show improvement.

I never said I made perfect beer. I said it was 4 years before I made a BAD one..... And it was an extreme experiment...

And I don't say all people should jump into all grain brewing. I suggest that if people read up and feel comfortable starting with all grain there is no reason not to.

It might be the right call for the OP, but not everyone.

To suggest that everyone should start with extract kits is dumbing down the hobby......

 

[BrewingTravisty]

I never said I made perfect beer. I said it was 4 years before I made a BAD one..... And it was an extreme experiment...

And I don't say all people should jump into all grain brewing. I suggest that if people read up and feel comfortable starting with all grain there is no reason not to.

It might be the right call for the OP, but not everyone.

To suggest that everyone should start with extract kits is dumbing down the hobby......

I do agree, AG really isn't that hard. Only reason I would suggest extract is for someone that sounds like they are the kind of person to stress themselves out about every little detail because they aren't confident in their abilities, which can lead to make a not so great beer or worse case getting an infection which could totally throw someone off from brewing completely. Making one decent beer from extract can help give you the confidence to see that brewing isn't that hard, and can go to AG with a little more confidence.

Of course, if you already have done your research and feel fairly confident then by all means go straight to AG! I've never been happier with my beers since I went to AG.

 

[ddrumdiablo]

He was afraid he might lose interest. Maybe he already did?

Sorry lads. Was out drinking all last weekend and started a new job this week. Am beat. Only popped in to have a look at the thread, but will certainly chime in over the next few days. Fear not, I haven't lost interes .

 

[bobby4]

I started brewing in the late 80s, and living in an apartment and being intimidated by the complexity stuck with extract. Finally, after way over-thinking it, I tried all-grain not that long ago. It is way simpler than I thought it would be. To make an award-winning stylistically perfect beer, hard. To make a really good beer you will like, dead simple. It sounds and reads much harder than it actually is. My only suggestion - make a checklist, it is easier to forget something during a longer brew day.