Total NooB and it's already becoming too much

[ddrumdiablo]

So I'm thinking of getting into doing some homebrew. I used to do a small bit years ago. All extract kits and didn't enjoy it too much, but I was young and impatient. Now that I'm mid-30's, I want to get back into it, but I want to go all grain. Problem is, in searching through these forums, the info relating to sparge water seems to be ambiguous at best (to me anyway).

The way I understand it the steps are as follows

1. Mill your grain or get it pre-milled
2. Multiply your grain weight by 1.25-1.33 to get your strike water volume
3. Heat your strike water
4. Mash your grain
5. Rest
6. Sparge
7. Drain
8. Boil
9. Ferment

Obviously, it's a little more detailed but those are the fundamentals. My issue is, the sparge water. How do you determine the volume of sparge water? Is it purely down to the amount you want to make or is there a formula dependent on the amount of grain/strike water you've used?

I don't want to get into this and make a heap of mistakes that will eventually put me off brewing after spending good money investing in equipment. Thanks for the advice

 

[BigMack]

I totally understand jumping back in and being slightly overwhelmed. When I started out I had to find a LHBS with super helpful staff to walk me through the process.

I would recommend reading through John Palmer's book how to brew. It's free online and insanely helpful. It will walk you through in very basic terms how to brew your first AG batch. http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/your-first-all-grain-batch/example-recipe

There are also a ton of free online tools that will get you the volumes you need for your mash/sparge water. http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I also can't recommend beersmith enough if you are interested. You can get a free trial for about a month and it is worth every penny if you buy it! It does every tiny little calculation for you!

If you want any more info or anything PM me! I'm happy to help any way I can. I always love helping fellow home brewers.

 

[j1n]

As bigmack said, online calculators are your friend. i would have to do actual math without them. lol

also get the bruNwater spreadsheet (has formulas built in) to make water profiles. It also helps determine the pH of the mash.

 

[Subdivisions]

Maybe try doing extract again to start out with. You'll get your feet wet and have some beer to drink in the meantime. See how your older self adjusts to it. After that look into brew in a bag. It requires much less equipment and you'll be doing all grain.

 

[shortyz]

Maybe try doing extract again to start out with. You'll get your feet wet and have some beer to drink in the meantime. See how your older self adjusts to it. After that look into brew in a bag. It requires much less equipment and you'll be doing all grain.

do this, theres no downfall in doing extract in my opinion. I do both and can do great beers with both styles providing your using the right techniques.

 

[shaneshepherd]

When I went all grain I did BIAB (brew in a bag). I've been brewing two years...about 30 total recipes so far and haven't regretted it.

 

[Subdivisions]

When I went all grain I did BIAB (brew in a bag). I've been brewing two years...about 30 total recipes so far and haven't regretted it.

I agree!! It's every bit as good as a beer done in a mash tun. Hell, the bag is the mash tun. The only difference is the way the wort is being drained.

 

[snow16]

I absolutely agree with doing an extract batch first. Ease yourself back into the hobby slowly. Take some time to review the simply stuff before you delve into something entirely new. And, as someone else mentioned, you'll have some good old homebrew to drink while you're learning about all grain.

I started out with extract, went to all grain - and then went to BIAB due to space constraints when I moved. Even if I had the space, I don't think I would go back to 'traditional' all grain. BIAB can so easily be tailored to fit your particular brewing situation, and it requires just a little more equipment than extract.

Don't hesitate if you have any questions - there are some incredibly helpful people on this forum. Best of luck.

 

[mattdee1]

Obviously, it's a little more detailed but those are the fundamentals. My issue is, the sparge water. How do you determine the volume of sparge water? Is it purely down to the amount you want to make or is there a formula dependent on the amount of grain/strike water you've used?

I don't want to get into this and make a heap of mistakes that will eventually put me off brewing after spending good money investing in equipment. Thanks for the advice

As a relative newcomer myself (6 brews so far), I can remember fretting like a mad man that my first brew was going to taste like armpit sweat if I didn't take control of all of the nitty-gritty details like water pH, exact sparge volumes, etc.

What I've learned, beyond all doubt, is that the process is very robust and forgiving beyond what I ever could have imagined, so long as you pay attention to a short list of key aspects.

I'm sure somebody with more experience will tell me I'm wrong, but if you pay attention to the following items, you are all but guaranteed a good-to-great result:

- recipe selection (go with something tried and true, at least at first)

- cleaning and sanitation

- appropriate yeast pitching amounts and temperatures (this doesn't need to be fancy or involved; a packet of dry yeast in a 5gal batch of low-to-mid gravity beer will make the grade--just make sure the wort is cooled first)

- fermentation temperature control (I've never worked without this, so I don't know from first hand experience how big of an impact it has, but all of my brews have turned out great and I have a feeling that minding this detail has been a big part of the reason why)

I don't really like the "you should try extract first" advice for newcomers, because it sends the message that there is something for newbies to fear about all-grain. If you're reasonably certain you want to make your own beer then, IMO, the only good reasons to go with extract are time savings, and reduced equipment costs/requirements. If you're OK with a 4-6 hour process on brew day and you're OK allocating the money and storage space for an all-grain setup, then cut to the chase and go all-grain. You always reserve the option to do extract recipes as well, if the situation calls for it. The opposite is not true if you set yourself up for extract.

 

[RM-MN]

So I'm thinking of getting into doing some homebrew. I used to do a small bit years ago. All extract kits and didn't enjoy it too much, but I was young and impatient. Now that I'm mid-30's, I want to get back into it, but I want to go all grain. Problem is, in searching through these forums, the info relating to sparge water seems to be ambiguous at best (to me anyway).

The way I understand it the steps are as follows

1. Mill your grain or get it pre-milled
2. Multiply your grain weight by 1.25-1.33 to get your strike water volume
3. Heat your strike water
4. Mash your grain
5. Rest
6. Sparge
7. Drain
8. Boil
9. Ferment

Obviously, it's a little more detailed but those are the fundamentals. My issue is, the sparge water. How do you determine the volume of sparge water? Is it purely down to the amount you want to make or is there a formula dependent on the amount of grain/strike water you've used?

I don't want to get into this and make a heap of mistakes that will eventually put me off brewing after spending good money investing in equipment. Thanks for the advice

When you drain the first runnings you measure the amount collected. Now you know how much you need to add by sparging to get to the preboil amount. Your grain will already be saturated so it won't be absorbing any of the sparge so you just sparge with the amount you need. If you are a little under, do a second sparge. Too much, boil a little longer. It's easy, this is not rocket surgery or brain science.:cross:

 

[specharka]

I don't really like the "you should try extract first" advice for newcomers, because it sends the message that there is something for newbies to fear about all-grain. If you're reasonably certain you want to make your own beer then, IMO, the only good reasons to go with extract are time savings, and reduced equipment costs/requirements. If you're OK with a 4-6 hour process on brew day and you're OK allocating the money and storage space for an all-grain setup, then cut to the chase and go all-grain. You always reserve the option to do extract recipes as well, if the situation calls for it. The opposite is not true if you set yourself up for extract.

This.

I hated extract brewing. Made exactly 2 extract kits. The lack of control over the final product made me feel less like I was brewing and more like I was baking a cake from a cake mix. You are at the mercy of the extract manufacturer. I understand there are pure extract brewers out there who are just as passionate about homebrewing as me, but it has never appealed to me whatsoever.

The biggest suggestion I can make is to write your process down prior to brewing, and take detailed notes during brew day. This enables you to double check your calculations and fine tune your brewing skills, so your next beer is better than your last. And no matter how much you prepare and how diligent you are, you will invariably make a few mistakes along the way and learn from them.

Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[Brewsit]

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml


http://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/

These calculators will help you tremendously. I use them all the time.

I brewed one batch of extract, then took a class to learn all grain and never looked back.

 

[Aristotelian]

As a beginner I was concerned about this too. Then I read that a lot of people these days don't bother to sparge with BIAB. Just full volume, single immersion. Lift the bag, squeeze out the liquid, and you are done. You lose some efficiency but make up for it in simplicity and repeatability. If sparging makes you nervous, just don't do it.

On my very first batch with this method, using pre-crushed grains, I hit 63% efficiency without even trying. When you put together your first recipe, just assume you are going to get efficiency in that range and see what happens.

My next batch I am going to double crush and anticipate 70%.

 

[A2HB]

I don't really like the "you should try extract first" advice for newcomers, because it sends the message that there is something for newbies to fear about all-grain. If you're reasonably certain you want to make your own beer then, IMO, the only good reasons to go with extract are time savings, and reduced equipment costs/requirements. If you're OK with a 4-6 hour process on brew day and you're OK allocating the money and storage space for an all-grain setup, then cut to the chase and go all-grain. You always reserve the option to do extract recipes as well, if the situation calls for it. The opposite is not true if you set yourself up for extract.

Amen to that! Couldn't agree more with you here

I started out brewing all grain from the very beginning and it's really not that hard like you said. Not sure why there's this perception that extract is the way to go if you're a newbie but it really needs to stop or at least be challenged more often.

 

[Spartan300man]

You could try a smaller 2 gallon batch if you have the right size fermenting bucket.

After a long period of time where I stopped homebrewing (extract method) I got back into it and immediately went into BIAB. It really wasn't that big a deal, and it costs a lot less buying grain instead of the cans of extract. I started out with doing the sparging simply because my boil pot wasn't big enough for the whole volume plus the grains. I had a second pot next to it, and I dunked the bag into the second pot to try to get all the wort out of it. Worked fine, even with several miscues and silly issues. Having a good thermometer is key, just start with a relatively simple recipe.

 

[SnakeRidge]

I totally understand jumping back in and being slightly overwhelmed. When I started out I had to find a LHBS with super helpful staff to walk me through the process.

I would recommend reading through John Palmer's book how to brew. It's free online and insanely helpful. It will walk you through in very basic terms how to brew your first AG batch. http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/your-first-all-grain-batch/example-recipe

There are also a ton of free online tools that will get you the volumes you need for your mash/sparge water. http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php

I also can't recommend beersmith enough if you are interested. You can get a free trial for about a month and it is worth every penny if you buy it! It does every tiny little calculation for you!

If you want any more info or anything PM me! I'm happy to help any way I can. I always love helping fellow home brewers.

Off topic but +1 for the Paw! Go Tigers!

 

[Invertalon]

Buy and use a program like Beer Smith (or try out the free trail of Brewer's Friend).. I like Beer Smith better and eventually bought and use that exclusively now, but either will work.

These programs take out almost all the math, if you will.. It will give you your water volumes AND temperature of that water for mashing and sparge water to reach target temperatures. I have done maybe 7-8 batches by now and always nail my temps and volumes using these tools... It's really accurate in my experience.

 

[dstockwell]

When I went all grain I did BIAB (brew in a bag).

I never brewed before now, and this is where I started.

 

[brrman]

When you drain the first runnings you measure the amount collected. Now you know how much you need to add by sparging to get to the preboil amount. Your grain will already be saturated so it won't be absorbing any of the sparge so you just sparge with the amount you need. If you are a little under, do a second sparge. Too much, boil a little longer. It's easy, this is not rocket surgery or brain science.:cross:

This is the answer to your question.

Can't get much easier than this as long as you have a way to measure the volume of the first runnings in the kettle. That can be done by making a measuring stick out of copper pipe or something (Start with empty kettle and add subsequent gallons of water to it; use a sharpie to mark each increment on the pipe). I used this method for years.

 

[ericbw]

When you drain the first runnings you measure the amount collected. Now you know how much you need to add by sparging to get to the preboil amount. Your grain will already be saturated so it won't be absorbing any of the sparge so you just sparge with the amount you need. If you are a little under, do a second sparge. Too much, boil a little longer. It's easy, this is not rocket surgery or brain science.:cross:

This is the answer to the question!

Here is an example for a 2.5 gallon batch, if you want to calculate it (rather than measure it).

Assume that you lose .1 gallon for each pound of grain. So if you have 5 pounds of grain, you'll mash with 6.65 QUARTS of water (that's 1.66 gallons). When you drain the wort, you should get 1.6 gallons (because you lost .5 gallons to absorption).

For your 2.5 gallon batch, you probably want 3.5 gallons in the boil (because you lose it to steam). So 3.5 - 1.16 = 2.34 gallons for the sparge water. As mentioned, you won't lose any more to absorption at that point, so you should end up with your full boil volume.

Did that make sense?

 

[ericbw]

I also think it is fine to do all grain or extract if you're new or coming back to brewing. I think attitude is more important. Know that you could mess up a batch or 9 before getting things right.

I think starting with 1 gallon batches makes more sense than extract if you're already kind of comfortable with the process of boiling and adding hops. That will get you used to mashing, draining, sparging, and then boiling.

 

[dsaavedra]

When you drain the first runnings you measure the amount collected. Now you know how much you need to add by sparging to get to the preboil amount. Your grain will already be saturated so it won't be absorbing any of the sparge so you just sparge with the amount you need. If you are a little under, do a second sparge. Too much, boil a little longer. It's easy, this is not rocket surgery or brain science.:cross:

This is how I do it as well. Since I don't have a kettle with volume markings or a measuring stick, I measure all of my runnings in a pitcher as I drain them from the mash tun and keep track of how many gallons are going into the kettle. If I need 6.75 gallons pre-boil and my first runnings yield 2.75 gallons, I will sparge with 4 gallons. Like RM-MN said, you can pretty much get all of your sparge water back out of the tun because the grains (and any dead space) will be saturated.

 

[Roadie]

F that "you have to begin with extract" bull$hit! I've only been brewing for 3 years but my very first batch was all-grain on an e-HERMS system. The joy in brewing for me is the actual brew day (less the cleaning part) so if I don't have the time to spare I simply don't brew. If you want to start with all-grain DO IT.

For new brewers or people like yourself who are just getting back into it I would highly recommend reaching out to a brew club for others in your area who are currently brewing the way you want to. Politely ask if you can observe their brew day. Bring a 6-er when you go to show your appreciation.

If you are batch sparging then there are a couple of replies above that can get you started. If you fly sparge then you're going to have to **guess** about grain absorption and sparge accordingly. Bottom line is you need to account for grain absorption, equipment losses and boil-off to get to the final volume you want to end up at. As was said above the process is forgiving and if you need to make adjustments (mash temp/amount of strike or sparge water/etc.) you simply do it on subsequent batches.

IMHO one of the most important things about brewing is temperature controlled fermentation. If you can do that you can avoid a lot of negative off flavors. Obviously sanitation is important as well so you don't end up with an infection but control fermentation as much as possible and results will surprise you. Don't sweat the small stuff and I'd consider amount of sparge water you use (within reason) to be small stuff.

 

[thekraken]

I don't want to get into this and make a heap of mistakes that will eventually put me off brewing after spending good money investing in equipment.

What equipment, if any, do you already have? What is your budget right now for new equipment?

 

[m00ps]

FWIW, I jumped straight in, all-grain BIAB designing my own recipes. Sure the first few werent up to snuff, but it was all worth it 20 months +150 batches later. Just keep looking around here. I guarantee you 99% of your questions have already been answered. I know mine were when I started

 

[specharka]

I think starting with 1 gallon batches makes more sense than extract if you're already kind of comfortable with the process of boiling and adding hops. That will get you used to mashing, draining, sparging, and then boiling.

...

This comes with all the hassle of brewing a five gallon batch with 1/5 of the reward. Your mash will lose heat much more quickly, your grain bed will be improperly sized, your mash tun design might have to be adjusted. The only reason you would start with a 1 gallon batch is because you want to make a 1 gallon batch.

 

[Aristotelian]

...

This comes with all the hassle of brewing a five gallon batch with 1/5 of the reward. Your mash will lose heat much more quickly, your grain bed will be improperly sized, your mash tun design might have to be adjusted. The only reason you would start with a 1 gallon batch is because you want to make a 1 gallon batch.

I started with 1 gallon batches. No need for a new brewpot, just used a stockpot already on hand. Less space taken up by equipment, less grains wasted if I make a bad batch.

5 gallons is still too much for me, but I recently bought a second jug/airlock so I can start doubling my recipes.

 

[RM-MN]

As a beginner I was concerned about this too. Then I read that a lot of people these days don't bother to sparge with BIAB. Just full volume, single immersion. Lift the bag, squeeze out the liquid, and you are done. You lose some efficiency but make up for it in simplicity and repeatability. If sparging makes you nervous, just don't do it.

On my very first batch with this method, using pre-crushed grains, I hit 63% efficiency without even trying. When you put together your first recipe, just assume you are going to get efficiency in that range and see what happens.

My next batch I am going to double crush and anticipate 70%.

Going to full volume, no sparge really is simple but you might need to make an adjustment to the water to get in the right range for pH. I add about a teaspoon of acid blend to bring my mash pH in line but everyone's water is different so that amount might not work so well for you. I did make pretty good beer before I started adjusting the pH so maybe I don't really need to.

 

[chickypad]

RM-MN has given you the foolproof way of measuring your first runnings then sparging up to your boil volume. If you want to figure it out in advance, the losses that you get between the total mash water and your first runnings will essentially be the loss due to grain absorption (about .12 gal per lb for regular mash tun, about .08 gal per lb if doing BIAB with some squeeze) plus any mash tun deadspace.

Just a quick clarification on your initial mash water - you would multiply the weight in lbs by 1.25 to get your strike volume in qts (saw someone before trying to using gallons). As others said though, you can go much thinner than that and do a full volume no sparge as is common with BIAB. There you would just take your boil volume and add the amount you will lose in grain absoprtion to get your strike volume (so about .08 gal per lb with a squeeze). One problem you might run into is kettle volume - you typically need at lease double the size of your batch volume to do full volume mashes. Also as mentioned above, you are more likely to run into pH problems with full volume mash.

 

[ericbw]

...

This comes with all the hassle of brewing a five gallon batch with 1/5 of the reward. Your mash will lose heat much more quickly, your grain bed will be improperly sized, your mash tun design might have to be adjusted. The only reason you would start with a 1 gallon batch is because you want to make a 1 gallon batch.

People say this all the time, but I disagree. Part of the hassle of a 5 gallon batch (especially BIAB) is the size. You have a big bag of hot grain to lift and move, a big pot of water to lift and move, ANOTHER pot of sparge water to lift and move. Add to this the complexity of getting water to the right temp, hoping that when you mash in, you don't lose too much heat, or worse don't lose enough.

And there is the time involved. A gallon of water heats much quicker than 3 and a half that you need to mash 10 pounds of grain (or if you're doing BIAB with full volume, then you have to heat 6+ gallons).

If you have 3 stockpots, a 1 gallon mesh bag, and a stove, you can do the same thing in much less time and see how it works. As far as learning how to do something and getting comfortable with the process, 1 gallon is perfect.