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Too Many Brands On The Shelf

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Grinnan5150

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
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Location
St. Louis Area
How do new breweries make it in today's brewing market? Anytime I'm at the liquor store there are more and more brands on the shelf. I think the market is over-saturated with craft beer. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad thing. There are honestly too many brands to try out there. Not enough time or money, for me anyway.
 
The market seems to be moving towards gimicky off shoots of established brands with the intent to get you to try something new rather than just continue to buy that same ol' pale ale...

grapefruit this, single hop that, oaked/smoked this, etc....
 
I feel the same way. Sometimes there's just too many choices, and I often times go to an old standby rather than trying one of the newbies that I see.

As with anything else, the market will dictate when enough is enough though, so I guess someone, somewhere is buying all these new beers if breweries are constantly putting out new products.

W
 
The market seems to be moving towards gimicky off shoots of established brands with the intent to get you to try something new rather than just continue to buy that same ol' pale ale...

grapefruit this, single hop that, oaked/smoked this, etc....

"Triple Hops Brewed" :)
 
There are 2 markets to consider.

The local market: taprooms, local distribution to bars etc

National/Regional Distribution for shelf sales

At the local market level (which is how most breweries keep the lights on), we are nowhere near saturation. 1 brewery needs a population of approximately 3000 people to be profitable. Every small to medium sized town in the U.S could theoretically support 2-3.

In terms of competing for space in the grocery store at the national or regional level, yes you are correct that that's a much harder market to break into and requires a large amount of financial leverage just to organize the distribution network needed to get the beer to the stores.

The few companies that can afford to distribute regionally do, and that number is growing as they are propped up by local distribution and direct sales. So in general, the market is still growing, and there's plenty of room on a macro scale.
 
I keep a mental map of local and regional breweries in my head and always try to buy as close to home as practical.

As I get bored with the nearest brew, I just zoom out a bit.
 
The market seems to be moving towards gimicky off shoots of established brands with the intent to get you to try something new rather than just continue to buy that same ol' pale ale...

grapefruit this, single hop that, oaked/smoked this, etc....

Yes and no. My friends/family and I are avid beer snobs (craft beer enjoyers) and most of us are sick and tired of the uber-hopping trend that has been going on for a while. With breweries trying to outdo each other by producing 70+ IBU beers, no wonder people are frustrated.

Unfortunately, with distribution competition and shelf-space competition, breweries have to do something besides make beer that tastes good. This means crazier blends, more IBUs and any other near-offensive marketing ploys. We need to make sure we vote with our wallets and let breweries know not to overdo it and just make good beer.
 
How do new breweries make it in today's brewing market? Anytime I'm at the liquor store there are more and more brands on the shelf. I think the market is over-saturated with craft beer. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad thing. There are honestly too many brands to try out there. Not enough time or money, for me anyway.

I think it depends on what you want from beer and the choices available to you.

A friend of mine is big on RateBeer, he likes to try new beers to rate them. And he can remember all sorts of brands and labels. Me? Not so much. If it's nothing special--which IMO a lot of craft beer is--I just forget about it.

Unlike my friend, I'm just looking for good beer I want to drink. I tend to be of the type that once he finds something he really likes, he stops looking.

And frankly, most of the new stuff I try is drinkable, but only that. Rarely does something just knock my socks off. I brew a Rye beer I like a lot, imagine my delight when I ran across Arc Welder from Metropolitan Brewing last summer. It was darned near a dead ringer for my own Rye beer, and I quickly ordered another. Maybe the best craft brew I've ever had, if for no other reason than it tastes like the kind of beer I like.

And I know how silly that last part sounds. But I suspect that's the case for almost everybody.
 
I'll take all your hoppy beers you're frustrated with, thanks.

No problem. Everyone likes what they like which is why there are so many on the shelves.

To me, the rising IBU of beers is starting to reach the breaking point. I don't mind a hoppy beer once and a while (had Lagunitis Sumpin' Sumpin' for the first time a month ago and loved it even at 68+ IBUs), but adding more and more hops does not a great beer make IMO.

Trends are trends and the hop-tacular trend will slow at some point once something else takes over. As homebrewers, we can have anything we want which is why this is a great hobby!
 
I am thrilled with the boom in selection. I think MORE brands is better. I adore walking into a store and looking over a wall of beer.

The problem is, the search tends to be more enjoyable than the choices.
 
I am thrilled with the boom in selection. I think MORE brands is better. I adore walking into a store and looking over a wall of beer.

The problem is, the search tends to be more enjoyable than the choices.

Interesting. In the last year I brewed 24 batches. The number of beers I've bought at a store? Zero.

I will try the occasional new thing at a pub or similar, but it's hard to pay $8-12 for a six-pack when I can brew beer myself for 40-50 cents a bottle.
 
Interesting. In the last year I brewed 24 batches. The number of beers I've bought at a store? Zero.

I will try the occasional new thing at a pub or similar, but it's hard to pay $8-12 for a six-pack when I can brew beer myself for 40-50 cents a bottle.

Agreed, except I tend to buy single bombers of a style I've never brewed before. I chalk this up as R&D costs :mug:
 
Interesting. In the last year I brewed 24 batches. The number of beers I've bought at a store? Zero.

I will try the occasional new thing at a pub or similar, but it's hard to pay $8-12 for a six-pack when I can brew beer myself for 40-50 cents a bottle.

I gave up brewing obscurities a long time ago. Opting to brew known classic styles of beers I knew I'd want kegs of. And I left big and/or obscure styles to the shelves. I do love the big and/or obscure styles. I just don't want gallons of it at any given time.
 
I gave up brewing obscurities a long time ago. Opting to brew known classic styles of beers I knew I'd want kegs of. And I left big and/or obscure styles to the shelves. I do love the big and/or obscure styles. I just don't want gallons of it at any given time.


Interesting I usually do the exact opposite. I try to brew obscure beers that I can't find in stores or that are absurdly expensive, and a keg full of "daily drinker" every few brews
 
Interesting I usually do the exact opposite. I try to brew obscure beers that I can't find in stores or that are absurdly expensive, and a keg full of "daily drinker" every few brews

I started out that way. Took to long to drink through kegs and I got bored. Found myself buying a lot of the simpler beers I drink on the daily. With the boom of craft and all the options that came with I switched my MO.
 
I'm goint to start a brewery then promptly threaten to move the jobs to Mexico. Way easier and more profitable way of making money than battling it out for shelf space with watermelon pilsner, coconut marzen etc. Will be like shooting fish in a barrel.
 
A couple decades ago, it was enough to be a micro that made good, drinkable beer that was just "not a BMC."

That used to be the challenge; pre-internet it was a LOT harder to make good beer. If you managed that, you could expect the product to sell, no problem: good microbrewed beers were selling like hotcakes, and options were few. Now that the information is out there on sites like this one, just about anyone can make good beer. Everybody and their brother is opening a craft brewery, with the result being that "wall of beer" that we all meander along as we make our selections. In order to get our attention, the brewers are (almost literally) throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the boil. In the battle to be seen, the first tactic is to be different.

SO, it's a bit of a positive feedback loop. More breweries mean more options, but in order to set themselves apart within the wall of options, the breweries are forever trying to come up with "what's new." ...which makes more options... which makes more of a need to set yourself apart... which makes more options...
 
just about anyone can make good beer..

Sadly, many new places aren't making good beer.

Investors are seeing $$$$ to be made (nothing wrong with that) and either learning to brew or hiring their friend who's an average homebrewer.

I'm been to dozens of new breweries in AZ, CA, OR, MI, and other states in the last few years that I'll never bother going to again...
 
Yes and no. My friends/family and I are avid beer snobs (craft beer enjoyers) and most of us are sick and tired of the uber-hopping trend that has been going on for a while. With breweries trying to outdo each other by producing 70+ IBU beers, no wonder people are frustrated.

Unfortunately, with distribution competition and shelf-space competition, breweries have to do something besides make beer that tastes good. This means crazier blends, more IBUs and any other near-offensive marketing ploys. We need to make sure we vote with our wallets and let breweries know not to overdo it and just make good beer.

Totally agree. Everything is IPA, double IPAs and more. You go in to find a nice beer at 70% of your choices are some kind of IPA.

I'm not particularly opposed to IPAs but they just really arent my thing. Its just like a bitter punch to my mouth and i cant taste much nuance.

I'd much rather a nice belgian or hefe. Mmmmm Tripel Karmeliet...
 
Honestly, I'm a bit torn about it. I'm quite new to craft beers. I grew up in the middle of a corn field pre-internet. All I knew of beer as a young man was BMC and I didn't like it all. I drank liquor and ciders when they started showing up, but never gave beer another look.
Only recently, after noticing the huge variety of beers in the once ignored beer section, was my interest piqued. I gave a wheat beer a try and was hooked instantly. I tried a dunkel and loved it! I've now begun to systematically try every style I can get my hands on.
I say all that to say this: I'm learning that there really is such a thing as spoiled for choice, at least in my situation. Sometimes, what I want to do is taste a good, solid example of a style so I can determine whether or not I like it, and do I like it enough to try to brew it. What I'm having to do is learn whether or not I like this or that style from this or that brewery and this or that version of ...etc, etc.

I love my newfound hobby. I'm utterly obsessed. And ya gotta be, or you'll miss half of it, I think. There's so much to sample and learn and brew. But, honestly, the wall of beer can be intimidating, especially to a noob. The cost is an issue as well, but as another said, we can just rack that up to R&D expenses. :D
 
The problem I see is that the craft beers are too expensive. For example:
6 pack of Sierra Nevada torpedo extra IPA is $7. But a 6er of Ballast point is $11. At Total Wine. Honestly I thin SN is a better beer and I probably would not spend the money on BP if I saw that price difference.

And you can make the argument that they must charge that price to make any profit. Well I know for a fact that is only part of it.

At the brewery I worked at for a couple years their Pilsner (one of their most expensive beers on the store shelf) is the lowest cost beer in the line up. Pilsner malt, minimal hops, water, and yeast. That's it. I helped brew it. I know this.
But on the store shelf, the IPA is $8/6pk and the Pilsner is $10/6er. And it's not that good.
And the beer is typically old anyway.

I think what needs to get corrected is the pricing. When mediocre beers are costing $10+ and awesome beers from Sierra Nevada cost $7 I'm not paying the extra $$ for a mediocre beer. Unless I can try a single bottle to try first.
 
I'd much rather a nice belgian or hefe. Mmmmm Tripel Karmeliet...

Myself as well. I would love to see more Belgians on the shelves. I do love a good IPA but they totally dominate the shelf space in any given store. Love me a good BPA, saison and triple.
 
I think what needs to get corrected is the pricing. When mediocre beers are costing $10+ and awesome beers from Sierra Nevada cost $7 I'm not paying the extra $$ for a mediocre beer. Unless I can try a single bottle to try first.

^^This

I don't mind paying a little more for a good craft brew than I pay for a 6-pack of Sam Adams or SN, but $10-$12 for decent beer is too much. Fat Tire is very good and available at my supermarket. It is fairly priced and worth every penny. A few others are not nearly as good and cost as much as $13/6. Sorry fellas...
 
Myself as well. I would love to see more Belgians on the shelves. I do love a good IPA but they totally dominate the shelf space in any given store. Love me a good BPA, saison and triple.

Personally, and I do love Belgian beer, I think there are too many saison and farmhouse ales on the shelves around me. There are so many that they have pushed the proper dubbels, triples, and quads out to where the sidewalk ends.
 
The problem I see is that the craft beers are too expensive. For example:
6 pack of Sierra Nevada torpedo extra IPA is $7. But a 6er of Ballast point is $11. At Total Wine. Honestly I thin SN is a better beer and I probably would not spend the money on BP if I saw that price difference.

And you can make the argument that they must charge that price to make any profit. Well I know for a fact that is only part of it.

At the brewery I worked at for a couple years their Pilsner (one of their most expensive beers on the store shelf) is the lowest cost beer in the line up. Pilsner malt, minimal hops, water, and yeast. That's it. I helped brew it. I know this.
But on the store shelf, the IPA is $8/6pk and the Pilsner is $10/6er. And it's not that good.
And the beer is typically old anyway.

I think what needs to get corrected is the pricing. When mediocre beers are costing $10+ and awesome beers from Sierra Nevada cost $7 I'm not paying the extra $$ for a mediocre beer. Unless I can try a single bottle to try first.

This.

I realize that it is very expensive to make a high gravity, ridiculously hopped IPA in California, but one would think, that prices would be lower with all of the competition in the market.

The problem you point is a big one, and one that I have noticed. When mediocre beer is costing $11 or $12 per six, they run the risk of actually turning the consumer off to craft brew.

I have tried enough high dollar average beers, that I now think twice about trying a new, small breweries beer.

When offerings from Europe are dirt cheap (Murphys stout at $5.99 per four or Guiness products @ $7.99 per six), and large craft brewers, who we know make great beer like New Belgium, Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, etc., are selling for $14.99 per 12, its really tough to justify paying $11-14 per 6 from a local brewery who may not be as good as the big boys.
 
I have only been brewing for about 3.5 years and the styles I thought I would brew a lot of when I started I have actually brewed few of and I have started finding myself leaning more towards keeping things simplistic for the most part. I started wanted to make Belgians, and I have made a couple dubbels that I thought were very good, a couple saisons that I liked more than what I can usually find on shelves, but in the last 6 months to a year I started realizing that to me simplicity is a good thing and that trying to make outrageously hopped, barrel aged, fruit infused, or beer spiced with hard to find spices just isn't worth it. While some of those beers that I have tried on the shelves are good, some very good, many aren't worth the price tag and it's not worth the cost to brew them yourself.

I love Westbrooks Mexican Cake, is it worth $18/750ml I don't know. To me it was worth it to try it once, would I pay that again, I doubt it. I might try to make a 2.5gal batch of something similar as I like a good big chocolatey stout with a little cinnamon and slight heat in the finish once in a while, but it's not something i'm going to drink everyday.

A local brewery has started expanding what they make but to me in a very smart way. They have started a SMASH series, they're up to #3, in the fall they release a couple of wet hopped brews, same malts just different hops in each, and soon they'll be releasing a barrel aged stout and a Winter DIPA, my guess is that both the barrel aged stout and the Winter IPA are based off of the base brews they are already making. Essentially SMASH's are relatively cheap since it's just base grains and one kind of hop, matching the hops to the right grain can be tricky, but once done it's relatively cheap to make as long as you avoid the most expensive new hop on the block, the others they're using a malt base that is tried and true for them and just swapping out hops or aging in a barrel. It's SIMPLE and it's working very well for them. Many craft beer drinkers are not beer aficionados, they can't pick up on every little spice in a beer, most of them don't understand Chinook vs. Cascade vs. Mosaic vs. Citra, vs. Amarillo, etc they go to a local brewery and purchase a flight, find something they like and might buy cans, bottles or growlers, but ask them what hops are in it and many can't tell you.

Go to the store and you see 10 session IPA's, but what makes each different? Many times I have to search each on Beeradvocate or the breweries site to see what hops they're using, many consumers don't know how much of a difference there could be so like others have said they turn away and buy something familiar. To many it's like buying Pepsi or Coke, yes there's a difference but for most the difference isn't that much they just buy the brand they prefer. Just looking at how the marketing, store shelves, and published sales of larger craft breweries have changed over the last 5-7 years I feel that many markets aren't saturated, but instead of focusing on making great beer, many are being gimmicky which will eventually cause them to fail when the market does get close to saturating.

Breweries just need 4-5 solid year round beers and,3 or 4 seasonals, and then offer a couple limited releases and change them up to give people something to seek out. If they can do that and still make very solid GREAT beer then expand more, if not follow the KISS rule.
 
There are a lot of underwhelming breweries, which crank out a lot of beer, and take up a lot of shelf space, lets take the tri-state region for example..

No offense to brands like Long Trail, Smuttynose, etc... but i'll spend my money on southern tier, ommegang, etc.

i am not sure who prefers the previous brands? Do people actually go into the store and buy these?
 
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