RobWalker
Well-Known Member
Ignore me, its been covered.
P.s. haggis tastes amazing!
P.s. haggis tastes amazing!
tobacco beers? anyone heard of them?
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acuenca
Well-Known Member
I love an Islay whisky... The smoky phenolic taste is from peat... but there are smoked and peated malts that can be tried with some of the other suggestionss like vanilla, cedar,oak etc to achieve some of these flavors....
So all this talk of how dangerous tobacco infusions are is really interesting as I just had a (totally amazing) tobacco infused cocktail a few days ago. This was at a restaurant and it was at tequila/mezcal drink. The flavor was very subtle but very tasty, and according to the waiter they used whole-leave cigar tobacco that had infused for a few hours. He even said that leaving it longer turns it nasty, and definitely leaving it for weeks would probably result in some awful and poisonous concoction. But I don't see why this couldn't work if done carefully.
I don't know if the restaurant steeped the tobacco it in the alcohol, or if they steeped it in the mixer... I would guess the alcohol. I was actually thinking about doing a tobacco infusion for a stout, though I have no idea how much tobacco it would take to peep through the flavors. Perhaps doing a very small tobacco infusion in the bottling bucket for a 6 pack's worth at first is not a bad option. Or a small amount of tobacco infused bourbon to add at bottling time?
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I don't know if the restaurant steeped the tobacco it in the alcohol, or if they steeped it in the mixer... I would guess the alcohol. I was actually thinking about doing a tobacco infusion for a stout, though I have no idea how much tobacco it would take to peep through the flavors. Perhaps doing a very small tobacco infusion in the bottling bucket for a 6 pack's worth at first is not a bad option. Or a small amount of tobacco infused bourbon to add at bottling time?
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BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
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BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
acuenca said:
I agree that i could use some scotchmaking techniques in making a similar flavor to a cigar. I myself am a cigar and scotch nut(walk in humidor in the basement and dedicated scotch room) i tend to likeall kinds og both. See, this thread has gone sooo many different directions simce i posted it last night. I too agree that infusing tobacco in the mash may jave some harsh comsequences( flavorwise, theres no way i could infuse enough nicotine into the wort to make it lethal because im not an idiot like that) but i could definatley see how lightly smoking the malt with sweeet pipe tobacco or hell, even storing a mesh bag of it under a few pounds of grain for a month would infuse some decent flavors. Im gonna try both ways. Well try a gallon batch w smoked malt and one thats just aroma infused. Wont kill me right? Im not such a ******* that id try a second sip if the first was horrible... thanks for the input guys this was a fast moving thread!
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bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine that a small amount would be fine, esp if you contacted the restaurant and asked about their method.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be your guinea pig though.
I swear just within the last couple days, maybe saturday when i was trapped at work all day, someone posted a thread about a major peat beer. I thought he described it as being Laphroaig or Lagavulin esque beer. I can't remember enough about the thread to even do a search, but it was a pretty detailed thread.....
I have 95% of a working tobaccoless cigar stout recipe. I have had it and it smells and tastes like an unlit cigar to me. It is an extract brew. I am zombifide from lack of sleep and her recipe is missing a few items. I will post the recipe when I have the rest of it, I estimate a few days...
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BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
Zamial said:
I'd be interested to try and brew it. Im trying to get a buddy into brewing so an extract batch would be a great way to get his feet wet!
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As soon as I get my last 3 items sorted out w/ her recipe I will be posting the recipe in in the recipe section and posting a link to it in this thread. Stay tuned!
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
I found this thread because of a wierd idea I got from a book called "1001 Beers You Must Try Before You Die". In it there was an Italian brewer that made a beer called Ke To Re Porter that had a " a minimal amount of tobacco" added at the end of the mash. Of course the book wasn't written with homebrewers in mind so they didn't give amounts and from the sound of it adding tobacco straight to the beer could result in poison:cross: but smoking a couple pounds of malt sounds like a good way to go. I am not a smoker, I tried a pipe and just couldn't get into it but I love the way pipe tobacco smells. What kind of flavors do you get when smoking malt with tobacco? Do you get the nice sweet aroma or is it the ashy taste you get when you actually smoke it? In other words I don't want to waste time making beer that tastes like an ashtray but if I can somehow get that sweet tobacco aroma in a nice porter it'd be awesome.
gr8shandini
Well-Known Member
I'd have to say that all the talk of tobacco being poisonous are a bit alarmist. Your beer would be undrinkably nasty well before it would be dangerous. After all, alcohol is a poison, too, and not many want to do without that.
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
I was thinking it but wasn't going to say it, happy some one else did. I just didn't want to start a flame. I'm sure you're right and it's obviously true that it can be done safely since a professional brewer has actually done it. I'd just be a little worried about over doing it on a homebrew scale without knowing the proper amount to start. I did a smoked porter a couple months ago that tastes fantastic, I used briess smoked malt to make it but that stuff was 2.99 a pound and even the guy at the store suggested I try smoking my own malt so I was thinking I could get a lot of interesting flavors smoking my malt with different types of wood. It just seemed natural to apply the same idea to tobacco. Kind of gotten addicted to smoked beers all of a sudden and this idea seemed interesting.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/tobaccoless-cigar-stout-recipe-maduro-stout-288773/#post3592861
yep there it is. Have fun!
yep there it is. Have fun!
40-60 mg of nicotine can kill you.
gr8shandini
Well-Known Member
Sorry for dredging up a strange and off beat brew. Just as a reminder the recipe I posted uses no tobacco of any kind. It just tastes like a cigar. I agree with the above posts and the idea of brewing with tobacco is NOT a good one.
bernerbrau
Well-Known Member
All this business about cyanide being poisonous strikes me as overly alarmist. Your beer would taste slightly almondy before it killed you.
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
Ok bash the tobacco in beers all you want and point out that its poisonous but the Ke To Re Porter I mentioned in a previous post actually does have tobacco in the mash. I mean all this research on how poisonous nicotine is is great but wouldn't it be just as easy to find out how much nicotine is in the tobacco you want to use. Then just use a nonhazardous amount. I mean I don't think anyone wants to have an overwhelming tobacco flavor just that subtle hint that makes some one drinking it go "hm that's an interesting flavor, real subtle, I like it". I'm pretty sure a poisonous amount is going to taste terrible and I'm pretty sure it would take quite a bit more tobacco than anyone would probably use just to hit even the 5mg mark in a pint let alone the 50. Anyone who has read this thread has a pretty good handle on the fact that it can be harmful, thanks. Now let's move on. Damn...I just joined a flame again.
Anyhoo, that tobaccoless recipe above looks interesting I might just try that, thanks Zam.
Anyhoo, that tobaccoless recipe above looks interesting I might just try that, thanks Zam.
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
Ok I looked back into that beer I was talking about. The book I have, "1001 Beers You Must Try Before You Die" has some spaces in the beer name where there shouldn't be and the name is actually Keto Reporter. It is brewed by an Italian brewery called Birra Del Borgo. Here's the part that kind of slows me down, the head brewer there is a former biochemist. I think that should qualify him to know the right amounts to use. I'm not, so without some research into how much tobacco to use I'm not going to try it. Anybody know Italian? It looks like their website might give recipe info but its all greek to me.
Just please don't crap on peoples ideas because you know a few factoids. This idea has been done and I couldn't find any info on anyone dying or even getting sick from drinking this. Just chill.
Just please don't crap on peoples ideas because you know a few factoids. This idea has been done and I couldn't find any info on anyone dying or even getting sick from drinking this. Just chill.
gr8shandini
Well-Known Member
Well, at least we have one example of a beer with tobacco that hasn't killed anyone (I assume). I guess I could have been a little less cavalier in that last response as some people might be getting the idea that I'm saying "don't worry, thow in as much as you like."
As an occasional cigar smoker I've actually experienced mild nicotine poisoning by overindulging on a particularly potent cigar. Unlike alcohol, the effects of "oversmoking" are not at all pleasant (nausea, shakes, racing heartbeat, dizziness, feverish symptoms) and I guarantee you that you WILL stop partaking before you kill yourself. So the most likely worst case scenario is that you make yourself sick for a few hours and have to dump a batch of beer.
However, since we're just talking about adding a tobacco "highlight" to a beer, I doubt that anyone would go over the equivalent of one cigar diluted throughout 5 gallons. Even if the absorption rate were several times that of smoking, I just don't see where someone is going to get themselves in trouble over the course of a drinking session.
If you don't want to brew with it, that's perfectly understandable, but just keep in mind that lots of people routinely place large wads of tobacco directly in their mouths and chew on it for hours. To me, that seems far more dangerous than adding an ounce or so to the mash, yet I can't seem to find an article about death by nicotine poisoning that doesn't involve intake by several methods at once (i.e. smoking while using a patch / gum). To that end, I will say that it would probably be a bad idea to smoke while consuming a beer containing tobacco.
As an occasional cigar smoker I've actually experienced mild nicotine poisoning by overindulging on a particularly potent cigar. Unlike alcohol, the effects of "oversmoking" are not at all pleasant (nausea, shakes, racing heartbeat, dizziness, feverish symptoms) and I guarantee you that you WILL stop partaking before you kill yourself. So the most likely worst case scenario is that you make yourself sick for a few hours and have to dump a batch of beer.
However, since we're just talking about adding a tobacco "highlight" to a beer, I doubt that anyone would go over the equivalent of one cigar diluted throughout 5 gallons. Even if the absorption rate were several times that of smoking, I just don't see where someone is going to get themselves in trouble over the course of a drinking session.
If you don't want to brew with it, that's perfectly understandable, but just keep in mind that lots of people routinely place large wads of tobacco directly in their mouths and chew on it for hours. To me, that seems far more dangerous than adding an ounce or so to the mash, yet I can't seem to find an article about death by nicotine poisoning that doesn't involve intake by several methods at once (i.e. smoking while using a patch / gum). To that end, I will say that it would probably be a bad idea to smoke while consuming a beer containing tobacco.
RandomBeerGuy
Well-Known Member
As a non smoker, this seems like a terrible brew idea and concept. I would have to say that if there was a "tabacco brew" the sales would probably tank. I would never attempt to make/ taste a tabacco brew. There is only on way to find out if it could or would harm you. That is to do it. Who ever is going to try is ideal. You should do a one gallon test batch.
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BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
See this is one of the things about HBT that turns me off. Im the OP. Ive just been siting back watching the thread go along and man! People on this site just hate it when someone has an idea they dont care for or agree with. Ive foloowed alot of threads and some of these lunks will S@#t on any idea that didnt come from thier own mind, but if it did it would be the best idea ever.. seriously guys, were here to encourage and support each other not have a peeing contest about who can google the best facts to shoot someones idea down.. i think tobacco beers a freakin great idea if youre into it, if youre not, then go find another thread to hate on!
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acuenca
Well-Known Member
I think some of the issues here stem from concerns for the safety of such a brew, not simply just whether or not this would taste good or whatever. I think that that is as important a reason for the existence of this site as any...
no one is really standing in your way to brew this beer but the next time someone uses the search function (I know I know as remote as that sounds) or has concerns regarding this topic, this thread will be there.
no one is really standing in your way to brew this beer but the next time someone uses the search function (I know I know as remote as that sounds) or has concerns regarding this topic, this thread will be there.
Dear God. I agree with the OP. Go ahead and brew it. You would have to put a lot in there to die, abs it can't be any worse than cigarette smoke.
life is worth living. Smoke crack, have sex with hookers, go to church, look down on people who have fun, whatever gets you of. Who care you'll due eventually
life is worth living. Smoke crack, have sex with hookers, go to church, look down on people who have fun, whatever gets you of. Who care you'll due eventually
I haven't read through this thread, but do you people have any idea how ****ing dangerous nicotine is? I'm about to smoke a handrolled cigarette right now, so let me just say I love a good cigarette, but damn...being in the same room as a drop of pure nicotine can kill you, I've heard. Even if that's not true, one thing I do know from gardening is that nicotine is a really dangerous substance and the tobacco plant contains far more than you take in when you smoke. You can make a super-potent nuclear bomb of a pesticide by soaking tobacco in water overnight, but whatever you do, don't spill any on yourself.
All that aside, I agree with the idea that finding how much is in there and using a safe amount would be fine...by definition, a safe amount is a safe amount. Do some research.
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
The active ingredient in chloroseptic throat spray is a caustic chemical that once a high enough concentration is a neural inhibitor that can start shutting down body systems but it works great for sore throats. Capsicum is what makes peppers hot but is used to make pepper spray and if digested in high enough doses can cause serious damage to your digestive tracts. Chlorine is a poisonous corrosive gas that we use to purify water for drinking. I'm sure if I sat here and googled half the herbs and spices we think nothing of using in our beers I could find all kinds of different poisons nobody ever talks about. There's just a ton of anti-tobacco propaganda flying around out there so we all know nicotine is dangerous. We're over-stressing that danger big time. A couple ounces spread over a 5 gallon batch isn't going to hurt anyone. Like it was stated above, I've seen guys stuff half a tin of chew in their mouths at work on a regular basis and suffer no ill effects. I didn't even think about that until some one mentioned it. The real danger of tobacco isn't the nicotine but the methods of delivery people use to get their fix, either smoking or chewing. Think of it as an herb and not as "big bad tobacco" and it'll be easier to get past this worry about the nicotine. Seriously if you're not interested in using it as an herb and are just on this thread to warn us about the "evils of big tobacco" unsubscribe and move on. Leave us alone to pick our own poisons. I'm not even a smoker and I'm getting sick of hearing ideas get bashed. I was just mulling this idea over as a hypothetical brew but now I'll definitely do it sometime this year just because of all the ignorant naysaying just so I can say I did.
Your examples are atrocious, maybe even worse than my worst one...but that may be a long stretch. You site people chewing tobacco. ever seen any of those fellas swallow the plug? What about anyone swallow a used cigarette butt? Do you have any idea why not? Because it would make them violently ill at the very least and dead at the worst.
My main concern with using tobacco in a batch is, you have 0 clue where that nicotine is or how it would react in alcohol, let alone a full on fermentation. What if all the nicotine floated or sunk and you ended up condensing it into 1 bottle? what if you or someone you knew got ill or died from YOUR batch? how would that make you feel?
I am not saying do not brew this, I am saying just do not approach this carefree and willy-nilly. If you do decide to brew this, please keep good notes and post your results + recipe.
I hope you do not die.
GL!
acuenca
Well-Known Member
Not to mention that you think that the anti-tobacco statements made in this thread are all "propaganda". That's craziness...
You brew what you want, and as Zamial says,"Good luck", but remember your examples require the ability to measure and test those compounds in a controlled manner. You don't know what your extraction efficiency is without distillation or some other ability to measure the compound, like (HPLC or GC) chromatography. If you look through the thread, there are some nice examples of ways to get some of those desirable flavors that you might be interested in WITHOUT using tobacco.
Spanish cedar, peated malt, anise, etc... Or even a tobaccoless brew (Thanks Zamial!)
Um... why not use these???
You brew what you want, and as Zamial says,"Good luck", but remember your examples require the ability to measure and test those compounds in a controlled manner. You don't know what your extraction efficiency is without distillation or some other ability to measure the compound, like (HPLC or GC) chromatography. If you look through the thread, there are some nice examples of ways to get some of those desirable flavors that you might be interested in WITHOUT using tobacco.
Spanish cedar, peated malt, anise, etc... Or even a tobaccoless brew (Thanks Zamial!)
Um... why not use these???
tesilential
Well-Known Member
I don't care what anyone brews, hell toss in a couple packs of nicotine patches for all I care.
That said, when I read the title I almost threw up.
Tobacco flavored beer (with or without tobacco) would be the worst thing I ever drank and might make me quit drinking entirely.
That said, when I read the title I almost threw up.
Tobacco flavored beer (with or without tobacco) would be the worst thing I ever drank and might make me quit drinking entirely.
Zamial said:Your examples are atrocious, maybe even worse than my worst one...but that may be a long stretch. You site people chewing tobacco. ever seen any of those fellas swallow the plug? What about anyone swallow a used cigarette butt? Do you have any idea why not? Because it would make them violently ill at the very least and dead at the worst.
My main concern with using tobacco in a batch is, you have 0 clue where that nicotine is or how it would react in alcohol, let alone a full on fermentation. What if all the nicotine floated or sunk and you ended up condensing it into 1 bottle? what if you or someone you knew got ill or died from YOUR batch? how would that make you feel?
I am not saying do not brew this, I am saying just do not approach this carefree and willy-nilly. If you do decide to brew this, please keep good notes and post your results + recipe.
I hope you do not die.
GL!
As a dipper and chewer for 13 years, your argument makes no sense. I've swallowed more tobacco spit than I'd care to remember. You asked if we swallowed the plug or dip. Well, no. but in a beer you wouldn't swallow a wad of tobacco either.
If I can't find a spit bottle, I'll swallow the tobacco juice. Not the brightest thing, but hasn't had any off effects yet. And this has been going on for 13 years. I've swallowed the occasional dip or 2. Accidentally.
If you are smart about a tobacco beer, you could do it and do it right. Don't use dip, chew, cigars or cigarettes. Too many additives...the really harmful stuff in tobacco. You want to stay away from in embalming fluid in your beer, and microscopic glass shards. Use REAL 100% tobacco. And don't put it in by the pound. An ounce or 2 would be plenty sufficient in the mash
OP - In the "electronic cigarette" world, there are many types of tobacco e-liquid flavors. This is a favor sought after aroma/flavor and it is VERY hard to nail. There are many such as, Virgina, Burley, Pipe, Kretek and Clove. These are nicotine free (you would add it later)
perfumersapprentice.com is a pretty good source - and they supply quite a few custom e-liquid makers.
perfumersapprentice.com is a pretty good source - and they supply quite a few custom e-liquid makers.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
scotched said:
You said Virgina... huh huh huh...
I am actually going to be backing out of this thread. I am not educated enough in the use of tobacco and brewing combined, to have a real conversation on this subject. I also belive there are VERY few people here that are better off than me.
We can all sit here, talk trash/speculate but the reality is NO ONE here can gaurentee a safe tobacco beer, this is my main concern with using tobacco and I believe I have voiced that as completely as I possibly could have. There is a working recipe for a safe cigar brew, granted it is tobacco free, use it or don't. (It is also linked in my recipe drop down.)
One last peice of food for thought...
There are people (like myself) that have taken mind altering drugs to stop using tobacco. I would become extreamly upset if someone gave me a beer that had tobacco in it and did not tell me upfront. IMO this would be grounds for an ass kicking.
We can all sit here, talk trash/speculate but the reality is NO ONE here can gaurentee a safe tobacco beer, this is my main concern with using tobacco and I believe I have voiced that as completely as I possibly could have. There is a working recipe for a safe cigar brew, granted it is tobacco free, use it or don't. (It is also linked in my recipe drop down.)
One last peice of food for thought...
There are people (like myself) that have taken mind altering drugs to stop using tobacco. I would become extreamly upset if someone gave me a beer that had tobacco in it and did not tell me upfront. IMO this would be grounds for an ass kicking.
vicratlhead51
Well-Known Member
Ok so I figured I'd do some homework before throwing up another post, so here's what I've found. Nicotine is miscible in water meaning it forms a homogeneous solution like alcohol does. So its as unlikely to be concentrated in one bottle as the alcohol is. Unfortunately the boiling point is 247 deg Fahrenheit so it'll all make it past the boil. As far as its reactivity in beer goes, I think the fact that there is a commercial version that has been brewed since 2006 and is still in their website's current list of beers should be enough to take away that worry. Nicotine makes up .6 to 3 percent of the dry weight of tobacco leaf depending on the strength of the tobacco. A good tobaccanist should be able to steer you to a weaker tobacco but I did the math for the stronger stuff just to be on the safe side. I found that using one ounce in a 5gal batch with 100 percent extraction and not accounting for trub loss (just used a straight 5gal to keep it simple) you could potentially wind up with 16mg of nicotine in one 12oz bottle. That is enough to make some one sick but not kill anyone. That 16mg number is the absolute highest possible from 1oz in a 5gal batch. It depends on 100% extraction, a strong strain and doesn't include trub loss. The real number would most likely be a fraction of that but to be on the safe side I'd say use a quarter to a half an ounce of dry tobacco unless you can get info on the nicotine content of the tobacco you plan on using.
I'm not sure what was atrocious, Zam, all I was trying to do was say we ingest poisonous chemicals every day but in small enough doses they're harmless.
Now on a side note I think finding one of those extracts like Scotched mentioned would be a great way to go.
I'm not sure what was atrocious, Zam, all I was trying to do was say we ingest poisonous chemicals every day but in small enough doses they're harmless.
Now on a side note I think finding one of those extracts like Scotched mentioned would be a great way to go.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Zamial said:
Lol... yeah I smoked for 10 years but stopped because smoking is for dumbasses tra la la
If I wanted to get somewhere close I'd probably chop up a cigar box and soak in in a little scotch whisky, and age the beer with it. But as far as actual tobacco in beer, yeah this thread is right up there with the meat beer thread but worse.
