To squeeze or not to squeeze?

[cannman]

I bet everyone knows where this one is heading...

The damn bag. (shout out to @wilserbrewer for making bags that make BIAB a go-to for all-grain simplicity and efficiency (77% last batch!)

25 lbs of grain, suspended in air by my ladder set up (thank you Alton Brown!) and all I can think is "if I squeeze, will I make more sediment? Will I make a foggy beer?"

If I hit my preboil volume, do I need to squeeze? Wouldn't gravity take care of most of the good stuff and draw that right away with lower quality lower concentration runoff remaining? I typically have 90 min boils as of late so I don't care if I keep the bag suspended for 75 min dripping all through, I'm worried about the sediment and clear beer.

 

[Oginme]

If you treat with Irish Moss or a similar type of clarifying agent in the boil or use gelatin to clear after fermentation, don't worry about any additional fines from squeezing.

Most importantly, make your process reproducible. If you are going to squeeze, then you should be prepared to do so every time. If you don't want to, that's fine, just don't do it. At 77% efficiency and getting your pre-boil volume, you are in a good place with your calculations on volume and should not worry about squeezing.

 

[slym2none]

Mashed grain, fried turkeys, AB's setup can lift it all!

 

[wilserbrewer]

In my experience, there is very little to no difference in total wort volume produced by squeezing vs just letting the bag hang and drain with gravity for 20-30 minutes.

I challenge any hard core bag squeezer to let their grain bag free drain for 30 minutes after squeezing and then tell me it didn't produce at least a small amount of additional wort via gravity?

 

[TexasWine]

Squeezing should not result in cloudy/hazy beer. Squeeze away if you want, but don't squeeze if that's your style. Doesn't matter as long as you're hitting your volume and gravity.

 

[cannman]

I challenge any hard core bag squeezer....

Challenge accepted :rockin:

Because I'm pretty sure I'm converting to non-squeeze. Much like no-pulp oj...

 

[ArcLight]

I bet everyone knows where this one is heading...

The damn bag. (shout out to @wilserbrewer for making bags that make BIAB a go-to for all-grain simplicity and efficiency (77% last batch!)

25 lbs of grain, suspended in air by my ladder set up (thank you Alton Brown!) and all I can think is "if I squeeze, will I make more sediment? Will I make a foggy beer?"

If I hit my preboil volume, do I need to squeeze? Wouldn't gravity take care of most of the good stuff and draw that right away with lower quality lower concentration runoff remaining? I typically have 90 min boils as of late so I don't care if I keep the bag suspended for 75 min dripping all through, I'm worried about the sediment and clear beer.

Since you hit your preboil volume you don't need to do anything

But I find with 20+ pound grain bills there is a fair amount of sugar trapped in the grain. Too much for squeezing, so I use a quick dunk sparge in a second pot.

If you don't want to squeeze or dunk sparge, at least support the bag with your hand (while wearing a glove) and sprinkle in in a quart of water. Let it sit a minute, and repeat a few times. The runnings will be rich in sugar.

 

[ArcLight]

In my experience, there is very little to no difference in total wort volume produced by squeezing vs just letting the bag hang and drain with gravity for 20-30 minutes.

I challenge any hard core bag squeezer to let their grain bag free drain for 30 minutes after squeezing and then tell me it didn't produce at least a small amount of additional wort via gravity?

I agree that squeezing is not the way to go if you have a setup that lets you hang the bag and let gravity suck it dry. I am a reformed squeezer.

I still like to give it a dunk sparge, as that does give a lot more sugar, especially with larger grain bills.

Squeeze is now out, hang / drain and dunk sparge are in

 

[MaxStout]

I'm a no-squeezer. I just hoist it above the kettle and let it drip while I'm bringing the wort to a boil. By the time the boil starts, it's hardly dripping at all. I might get a few more ounces by squeezing at that point, but it's just not worth the trouble.

I get efficiency in the 75-80% range for all but the highest gravity beers.

 

[doug293cz]

... Wouldn't gravity take care of most of the good stuff and draw that right away with lower quality lower concentration runoff remaining? ...

The SG of the wort remaining in the grain is the same as the SG of the wort in your kettle. You can get most of the wort out of the bag with an extended hang.

I do the same as you and let the bag hang throughout most of the boil time (gotta love that step ladder gantry set up.) Some times I add a pour over sparge (if I didn't do a full volume mash), and I'll only squeeze if I have a sticky mash (lots of wheat, flaked barely, etc.) that appears not to have drained well.

Brew on

 

[wilserbrewer]

I still think the dunk sparge adds a noticeable additional amount of fermentables.
In fairness, we need to conduct a test, two side by side brews: one with a dunk sparge, the other with the "pour some water through the bag.
:

I still like to give it a dunk sparge, as that does give a lot more sugar, especially with larger grain bills.

Squeeze is now out, hang / drain and dunk sparge are in

While I used to also a feel a dunk sparge was the way to proceed, but after doing it a couple times with sizeable grain bills, I thought to myself that it is a waste of effort for diminishing returns....just my opinion.

I do agree that a dunk sparge may likely give you a bump in efficiency, but the net savings in grain is not that great, estimating fifty cents to a dollar.

While I respect everyone's opinion and understand we all like to do certain things, I found the dunk sparge to be a lot of extra effort and time for a small return on investment. I am typically well stocked on bulk grain so that also plays into the equation. If I was paying 2-3 fold at my LHBS, perhaps I would have more efficiency concerns.....

Please conduct the test you mention above, I'd love to see the results. Oh and FWIW, I like to do a small pour over sparge, not so much to gain efficiencey, but it is a very handy and easy method to make a pre boil volume adjustment.

Did I mention I like easy

Cheers and thanks!
wilser

 

[OkanaganMike]

I challenge any hard core bag squeezer

Thought I'd try it out....................No sir, ...................didn't like it at all!

 

[ArcLight]

While I used to also a feel a dunk sparge was the way to proceed, but after doing it a couple times with sizeable grain bills, I thought to myself that it is a waste of effort for diminishing returns....just my opinion.

I do agree that a dunk sparge may likely give you a bump in efficiency, but the net savings in grain is not that great, estimating fifty cents to a dollar.

wilser

If the bump in efficiency was going from 1.050 to 1.053 then I'd say - nah, not worth it.
For 20+ pounds I'd say the bump is more in the range of at least an additional 10-15% more fermentables (1.050 -> 1.0575).

Even that may not sound like a lot - but look how easy it is.
1 - do the mash, raise the bag,

2 - start the boil (no mash out)

3 - in the meantime, let it drip for 5-10 minutes, give it a little squeeze since there is some easily squeezable wort that comes out.

4 - lower the bag into a second pot, pour in some extra water, maybe 1/3 - 1/2 of what you mashed with. Mix it around with a spoon, raise the bag, let it drain a bit and pour it into the pot.


The "extra work" consists of:
1 - a few squeezes of the raised bag (nothing manly)
2 - lowering the raised bag, and raising it again (with the cheap, crappy (but functional) home depot ratchet I have).

The key is using gravity - rather than squeezing. That's a huge difference in effort and gravity does just as good a job.


The last time I did this for a 20 pound grainbill teh results were
a - mash in 8 gallons = 18 BRIX
b - dunk sparge - 3.5 gallons = 8 BRIX

Had I mashed with the full volume of water, perhaps I'd have gotten more fermentables form the mash compared to mashing with 8 gallons.

Even so, it's a noticeable difference, and it's not that much extra work. I've not found that using a no-dunk technique is almost as good. But I can see someone saying "use an extra 2 pounds of grain" and save a step to make the brew day a little simpler. fair enough.

 

[djt17]

I have squeezed, & not; I haven't noticed any difference in efficiency. I pull the bag & drop it into a bucket with a basket. Then just before the boil I dump the few ounces of wort in the kettle. I like easy too.

 

[wilserbrewer]

ArcLight,

My apologies, believe I now understand the points you were trying to get through my thick skull

While you have been an advocate for dunk sparging larger grain bills, I did not make the assumption you were also doing extremely high gravities.

This is really a sparge vs no sparge discussion. The only method I'm aware of to maintain efficiency and do very large beers would be to partigyle a second smaller beer.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I have squeezed, & not; I haven't noticed any difference in efficiency. I pull the bag & drop it into a bucket with a basket. Then just before the boil I dump the few ounces of wort in the kettle. I like easy too.

I do the same thing pretty much, just let it sit there dump twice. Once I get close to boil I press down with a pot lid to get about a quart or two more and dump that back in too.

 

[ArcLight]

ArcLight,

My apologies, believe I now understand the points you were trying to get through my thick skull

While you have been an advocate for dunk sparging larger grain bills, I did not make the assumption you were also doing extremely high gravities.

This is really a sparge vs no sparge discussion. The only method I'm aware of to maintain efficiency and do very large beers would be to partigyle a second smaller beer.

Actually my 20+ pound brews are for 10 gallons, so they are aren't high gravity. I didn't directly say 10 gallons, but in some of my examples I used 8 + 4 gallons.

Prior to the dunk sparge / gravity I used to squeeze the 20+ pounds of grain and got less efficiency than with 10 pounds of grain.

I think 20+ pounds of grain traps more wort, and benefits more from a dunk sparge.

The two "Aha" moments for me as a BIABer were:
1 - using the dunk sparge with gravity to drain (and giving up squeezing - except for a few right before the dunk).

2. Crushing tighter.

I kind of miss the squeezing ...

 

[wilserbrewer]

Oh 10 gallon batch....forget the spatge, your mid gravity.

Unless you like work for 63 cents of grain.

 

[Gavin C]

Hello, My name's Gavin C and I'm a squeezer. I have no hoist above the stove, otherwise I would be a reformed character for sure.

0.04-0.045 gallons of sweet-wort lost per pound of grain is typical. The bag sits in a colander over frying pan after I'm done squeezing it. There is maybe 1-2 oz in the pan once the grains are cooled and i chuck them out. Never measured it but it's pretty tiny. (5.5 gallon batches)