Tip from a vintner on oaking

[pkrath84]

I was in nappa the other day and the vintner/proprietor of the Hendry winery mentioned that their oaked wines, particularly reds ferment and sit in oak for a year and then in bottle for the year to achieve more complete polymerization of tannins. He mentioned that the slow leeching of oxygen in the barrels makes this possible. When sitting in stainless fermenters, he states they aerate gently, constantly for a set amount of time. More aeration, less time, and vice versa.

I'd very much like to apply this technique to oak my apfelwein but since I use a glass carboys and an airlock I was wondering how I would achieve this. Various articles in wine making suggest either direct injection or racking vigorously. Since I dont plan on constantly aerating for an extended period of time, I was thinking about racking vigorously every 3-4 months. When racking however, some hypothesize that the CO2 blanket produced when racking may prevent sufficient oxygen from absorbing into solution. I should also add that the consensus seems to be that proper use of sulfites according to pH should protect against the negative effects of oxidation.

I'm planning on getting 10 gallons going sitting on either french or hungarian oak for a full year added during primary fermentation. Then age for a compete 2nd year before drinking. Anybody with experience in this arena or would just like to share your thoughts?

 

[pumpkinman2012]

I don't think you will get the same effect, with barrel aging, you get a slow micro oxidation that is actually beneficial to the wine, and we top up the barrels every few weeks or even monthly as to not encourage spoilage; with splash racking or racking vigorously, you will be introducing large amount of oxygen, this is used at times in an attempt to fix strong sulfur smells, but doing this repeatedly will oxidize your apfelwein.
I would purchase a small barrel through Vadai and treat that apfelwein with care.

 

[pkrath84]

Better to do it right the first time, right? I knew it sounded too easy!

Thanks for the knowledge!

 

[pkrath84]

YES! It's on my route to work! Thanks for the mention of vadai! I thought I'd have to bribe someone at one of the wineries, haha

 

[pumpkinman2012]

LOL, The folks at Vadai are very nice, and the 20 & 23 liter barrels are fairly reasonable.
I recently bottled a Kentucky Bourbon barrel Ale, aged in a used whisky Barrel, I pulled my back and left the batch in the barrel a long time, it is a very potent beer, the whiskey is a bit over powering, hopefully it mellows with age.

 

[larrydcarter]

I've always heard oxidizing is detrimental to the brew. What are the benefits you are trying to obtain?

 

[pkrath84]

Low level oxidation, "microoxidation" is what "sets" the phenols from the barrel (also from the grape seeds and skin in red wine) to impart the deep flavor profiles in wine when in the barrel. The same applies when you barrel age beer, although it seems to be much more sensitive. It's not on the same level as splashing post fermentation or racking poorly, though.

In the barrel, microoxidation occursnaturally due to the porous oak and the lack of "complete" seal, but it happens VERY slowly.

My intent was to fully take advantage of oaking with cubes by introducing a "little" bit of oxygen to polymerize the phenol from the oak by either racking vigorously or utilizing highly controlled aeration (i dont have the capability). I was told white wines in particular get aeration when sitting in stainless/oak fermenters. More oxygen speeds up the process, less oxygen is more gentle and again, allows for development of the complex flavors from the phenols.

Thankfully I found out (thanks to pumpkinman) that the barrels are affordable enough that I won't have to waste my time on an inefficient experiment. Could you imagine putting 2 years of patience to work and ending up with something that needs to be put down the drain? I'm going to get a barrel and do it the old fashion way... Very slowly. The right way.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

pkrath84, I ended up having to "sample" a bottle of my Bourbon Barrel ale after I posted about it being a bit potent...lol
The beer surprised me, the intense flavors have mellowed out a bit, the whiskey was still a bit more than I initially wanted, but the level of oak was perfect, and it had a decent amount of body and mouth feel, I am sure this was due to the microoxidation, the wort was an Irish ale, nothing about it had any body or mouth feel that stood out.
I had pulled my back and wasn't even going to think about lifting an oak barrel, the beer aged in the barrel for over two months!
I am very pleased, this is a beer that will be best sipped slowly to enjoy all the levels of complexities!
keep us informed on the progress!

 

[pkrath84]

pkrath84, I ended up having to "sample" a bottle of my Bourbon Barrel ale after I posted about it being a bit potent...lol
The beer surprised me, the intense flavors have mellowed out a bit, the whiskey was still a bit more than I initially wanted, but the level of oak was perfect, and it had a decent amount of body and mouth feel, I am sure this was due to the microoxidation, the wort was an Irish ale, nothing about it had any body or mouth feel that stood out.
I had pulled my back and wasn't even going to think about lifting an oak barrel, the beer aged in the barrel for over two months!
I am very pleased, this is a beer that will be best sipped slowly to enjoy all the levels of complexities!
keep us informed on the progress!

Nice, I'm glad it turned out well!

I'll definitely be posting on my progress.

Thanks again, I'm really looking forward to this