Time for a New All-In-One Brewing System

[brewman !]

Some of what you guys are saying is not correct. EVERYTHING on the Brewtools systems can be replaced!

Sure it can. Provided BrewTools stays in business and keeps selling the parts. What happens when they don't ?

Is that control IP67 rated ? How much is it to replace when it fails ?

There is nothing that can’t be pulled out and replaced or pulled apart and cleaned including the pump and center valve. The pump does not pull from the center of the kettle. It pulls from an adjustable dip tube inside the kettle.

Yipee.

The pump is an off-the-shelf and non-proprietary Topsflo 24VDC. These pumps are used in a lot of systems.

Good to know. What's the temperature under the boiler where the pump sits ? Why is there a kit to move the pump out from beneath the boiler ?

The pictures that Brewman ! has posted are of a pretty extreme setup that is far from the norm. IMO that’s part of what drew me to the Brewtools is the modularity of their systems. If someone was worried about the controller being in harms way, it can be detached and moved to a different location. The chiller is an add-on accessory (like it is on a lot of systems out there) so you can integrate whatever you like. The drip trays are also add on accessories. I personally think they are a nice addition.

So if everything is off the shelf and modular, why do people buy a BrewTools system ? Why not just buy the parts (for a lot less) and assemble a system ? It's not like there is anything proprietary or complicated about what they have done.

For starters, if you built a system yourself, you could use 1.5" TCs instead of 34mm TCs. That alone would open a world of compatibility with other brew systems in the US.

As far as the TC fittings subject: yes the fittings are a bit of a head scratcher on the surface when it comes to the size. But, like I said before, I believe it was a decision that was made to optimize the performance of the system. But I really don’t know for sure.

Using 34mm TCs versus 1.5" TCs has *nothing* to do with system performance.

This comment leads me to think that the genetic makeup of homebrewers has changed over the years. Homebrewers used to be very, very technical and some still are. We knew BTUs, flow rates, sizes, etc. We had to, because we build our own systems, from scratch. These days there are a lot of brewers that have never assembled a system from scratch and just look at how shiny the equipment is.

As far as TC fittings on the hot side of things; I personally would take TC over NPT any day! I have taken apart threaded hot side fittings before and have been amazed at what I have found.

1) How do you clean your equipment post brewing ?

2) Have you ever seen what is in newly harvested grain ?

3) Which exact fitting are you speaking of ? Let's not forget that the water supply you drink from is assembled from NPT fittings, not triclamps. And your water isn't boiled before you drink it.

4) If you want to see grunge, pull the spool out of a ball valve. You do take your ball valves apart after every brewing session, right ?

5) Of course you want TCs over NPT. But there are these things called cam locks that work just as well or evern better for some connections. And let's not forget that that a 3 way "NPT" valve with camlocks costs ~ $45 versus $100 for a custom TC version. And the BrewTools set up uses 4 of them. And there appears to be an issue with O Rings in them.

And I’m a little anal when it comes to cleaning so it isn’t as if I neglected the process. Hot side or not, I don’t think it’s a good thing. There is a reason Breweries use them pretty much exclusively.

1) So that means home brewers should use triclamp connections everywhere ?

2) How else should breweries connect large hard piping that frequently need to be taken apart ? NPT unions ?

3) What scientific evidence do you have that NPT fittings on the hot side result in better beer ? I've been home brewing with NPT fittings for 24 years and have never had a spoiled beer. Why do I need TCs on all my hot side connections ? What leads you to think that TCs are a "good thing" ?

 

[Aerohead93]

Sure it can. Provided BrewTools stays in business and keeps selling the parts. What happens when they don't ?

Is that control IP67 rated ? How much is it to replace when it fails ?



Yipee.



Good to know.



So if everything is off the shelf and modular, why do people buy a BrewTools system ? Why not just buy the parts (for a lot less) and assemble a system ? It's not like there is anything proprietary or complicated about what they have done.

For starters, if you built a system yourself, you could use 1.5" TCs instead of 34mm TCs. That alone would open a world of compatibility with other brew systems in the US.



Using 34mm TCs versus 1.5" TCs has *nothing* to do with system performance.

This comment leads me to think that the genetic makeup of homebrewers has changed over the years. Homebrewers used to be very, very technical and some still are. We knew BTUs, flow rates, sizes, etc. We had to, because we build our own systems, from scratch. These days there are a lot of brewers that have never assembled a system from scratch and just look at how shiny the equipment is.



1) How do you clean your equipment post brewing ?

2) Have you ever seen what is in newly harvested grain ?

3) Which exact fitting are you speaking of ? Let's not forget that the water supply you drink from is assembled from NPT fittings, not triclamps. And your water isn't boiled before you drink it.

4) If you want to see grunge, pull the spool out of a ball valve. You do take your ball valves apart after every brewing session, right ?



1) So that means home brewers should use triclamp connections everywhere ?

2) How else should breweries connect large hard piping that frequently need to be taken apart ? NPT unions ?

3) What scientific evidence do you have that NPT fittings on the hot side result in better beer ? I've been home brewing with NPT fittings for 24 years and have never had a spoiled beer. Why do I need TCs on every hot side connection ?

Awe! Did I stomp on a nerve? Sorry bout that! Just trying to keep it real and put all of the FACTS in front.

 

[Birrofilo]

It's not clear to me if the problem with your present Grainfather is only the failed parts or if you also want a larger kettle.

If I were you I would consider repairing the Grainfather with a 230V heater and a 230V controller.
You could buy the European versions of the spare parts and mount them by yourself.

Or you can fit a new PID instead of the original controller.

The Grainfather is, for what I read, a very decent homebrewing machine and, importantly, it also allows you to distill, by fitting to it the alembic extention or the column extension.

I have an Arsegan Easybrew30, which is the typical "Chinese kettle" sold with many other brands (Klarstein Mundschenk, Easy Grain, Browland Brew Monk, Brew Monster, AHB Brew Devil, ACE Micro Brewery, Brewster Beacon and probably others) which is OK but it's not all roses and flowers, you see here and there the cheap overall build.

Those machines do fail here and there (the pump, the controller) which is the right occasion for "pimping" them.

 

[brewman !]

Awe! Did I stomp on a nerve? Sorry bout that! Just trying to keep it real and put all of the FACTS in front.

No, not at all. A discussion of facts is great.

BTW, where is the second source for a replacement heater element ?

 

[Aerohead93]

Brewtools website is the only source I am aware of. Not aware of any others.

 

[Aerohead93]

No, not at all. A discussion of facts is great.

BTW, where is the second source for a replacement heater element ?

You might have me confused with Birrafilo.

 

[Reneauj62]

My 3-year-old 120V Grainfather Connect finally melted the controller plug. I was already contemplating the Grainfather G70 but apparently, there are some issues that they seem unable to fix?

I know I want to go 220V
I love simplicity and the easier they are to clean the better
5.5 and 11 gallon batches
I also really do like the delayed heating feature but not a deal breaker.
Being able to repair/replace bad parts seems important at the moment.

I'm considering the G70, Brewzilla 65L, Spike Solo, and even considering an eHERMS 3V system for sale locally but I have no idea if that is more trouble than it's worth.

What am I missing? I saw the brewtools and apparently, they aren't intended for dummies and I am a self-proclaimed DA.

I had two Grainfathers (G30) and both failed me.You need to look at the Unibrau V3 (www.brausuppy.com) I got mine and wow....talk about over-delivering. The unit is top notch. I have the 10 Gallon 220v 5500w and I was blown away. The unit is modular so you can do just about anything you want to.

 

[brewman !]

The Grainfather is, for what I read, a very decent homebrewing machine and, importantly, it also allows you to distill, by fitting to it the alembic extention or the column extension.

It is true that you can fit an alembic or column extension to a Grainfather.

However, this does not make the Grainfather a great distiller. The alembic top makes it a simple pot still. While you can distill spirits with that, it takes several runs to obtain a significant amount of distillation. The T500 column is a step up from the alembic top, but not a great one. The column will provide more reflux, but it is small diameter and too short for a lot of jobs. And the Grainfather has limited mash heating power. But it will distill a mash nonetheless.

People tell me it is quite easy to convert a boil kettle to a still by soldering or welding a TC fitting to the lid, adding a method to clamp the lid down as well as a gasket and adding a modular column made of triclamp spools.

 

[brewman !]

You might have me confused with Birrafilo.

Sorry.

 

[Reneauj62]

Have you looked at the Unibräu? I’m leaning towards that one

I pulled the trigger on the Unibrau V3 220v 5500w 10 gallon unit right before Black Friday. This unit is a great choice for me... Phenomenal product and customer service... You can chat with the owner/developer directly. I have use it and cannot be happier.. From a former Grainfather user.

 

[Rik van den berg]

I had two Grainfathers (G30) and both failed me.You need to look at the Unibrau V3 (www.brausuppy.com) I got mine and wow....talk about over-delivering. The unit is top notch. I have the 10 Gallon 220v 5500w and I was blown away. The unit is modular so you can do just about anything you want to.

good to read! I’m planning on getting the 20gal version in March

 

[Reneauj62]

good to read! I’m planning on getting the 20gal version in March

Good deal. Because everything is modular and using the 1.5" Tri-clamps, it is very versatile. You can use the controller, temp gauges, heaters, and accessories on a 10 gallon kettle or a 20 gallon kettle.

 

[Reneauj62]

I just gave the brewtools stuff a better look and it's pretty impressive. Lots is proprietary pieces tho. The b40 not offering 5k+ 240v is a HUGE letdown

www.braussupply.com

 

[Rik van den berg]

Good deal. Because everything is modular and using the 1.5" Tri-clamps, it is very versatile. You can use the controller, temp gauges, heaters, and accessories on a 10 gallon kettle or a 20 gallon kettle.

whts the biggest batch and grain bill you’ve done on the 10G?

 

[Aerohead93]

I pulled the trigger on the Unibrau V3 220v 5500w 10 gallon unit right before Black Friday. This unit is a great choice for me... Phenomenal product and customer service... You can chat with the owner/developer directly. I have use it and cannot be happier.. From a former Grainfather user.

Ya being able to actually communicate with the developers directly is huge IMO!

 

[Reneauj62]

whts the biggest batch and grain bill you’ve done on the 10G?

I went with a recipe I would call a Frankenbier (leftover ingredients I had around the house already) just to get my feet wet. I used 16 pounds of grain 4 ounces of hops. I could have done more but was not trying to max out the system, i just want to see how everything went together. I was thoroughly impressed since I was used to having two grainfathers that were pathetic (110w that never boiled) . I bought a couple more accessories like the hop block, whirlpool arm, and the sparge arm to attach to my sparge heater.
What I noticed the most about the unit is how much faster the unit got up to mash temps and boiling. This meant I had so much time left over in my brew day. The clean up was a lot easier than with the Grainfather coffee urn style. My efficiency was 88% which blew me away. I would have to warn you though, the pump is very strong and I did double mill my grains. While it was, in my case, a necessity to condition and double mill my grains using the Grainfathers, the flour clogged the hopblock. So, my next batch would include a coarser mill and limit the flour...

 

[Reneauj62]

Ya being able to actually communicate with the developers directly is huge IMO!

Yeah Steven is pretty cool. He is busy for sure and is available for chat. If you don't catch him during the day, the chat is automatically sent to his email and usually there is a response by 10-11 AM the next day..

 

[Birrofilo]

BTW, where is the second source for a replacement heater element ?

I understand now this was directed to me.
I frankly don't know because I don't own a Grainfather.
I suggest you talk to the producer, or visit some Grainfather forum. I am sure you will find spare parts for EU distribution. That product is sold in Italy as well.

In general I see that there is some kind of "market" for improvement of AIO kettles. People seem to be dissatisfied with stock controllers, and adopt PIDs to all sorts of machines.

In the Grainfather fora (or Facebook groups) I am sure you will find more precise advice.

 

[brewman !]

I understand now this was directed to me.

Sorry, I was asking about the BrewTools all in ones. Is there a second source for the BrewTools heater element ?

It's really sad to see how Grainfathers have stood up (or not) over time. There are people with a hundred brews on them. And then there are people with a lot less.

 

[Birrofilo]

It is true that you can fit an alembic or column extension to a Grainfather.

However, this does not make the Grainfather a great distiller. The alembic top makes it a simple pot still. While you can distill spirits with that, it takes several runs to obtain a significant amount of distillation. The T500 column is a step up from the alembic top, but not a great one. The column will provide more reflux, but it is small diameter and too short for a lot of jobs. And the Grainfather has limited mash heating power. But it will distill a mash nonetheless.

People tell me it is quite easy to convert a boil kettle to a still by soldering or welding a TC fitting to the lid, adding a method to clamp the lid down as well as a gasket and adding a modular column made of triclamp spools.

It's two completely different distiller kinds we are talking about.

The alembic, or pot still, of which an example is the copper alembic sold for the Grainfather, is a product to obtain the "normal" amount of distillation, i.e. you dont' strip all flavours (head fractions and tail fractions): if you want to make with whisky, rum, grappa, tequila, or any fruit brandy, normally you would either make a "one run" distillation with an alembic, or a "double run".

The column still is the instrument one uses to obtain a "neutral", an alcohol product which as very little congeners and which is mostly ethanol. This has, in a sense, "no flavour" and is like a blank slate which you use to make liqueurs, bitters, amari etc.

So if your goal is to make whisky (which is the normal first attempt for a homebrewer, I am actually making neutral first) a pot still is the usual, traditional, "kosher" way to make it. If you want to make a fruit brandy (grappa, palinka/slivovitz, marillenbrandt, etc.) then, again, the normal and traditional instrument you would use is an alembic (a pot still).

If your goal is to make an Amaro, or a Bitter, or a Mistra/Ouzo, then you must obtain a neutral first, which is really neutral, and then you add herbs according to various tecniques. The column distiller is way more practical, or safer, for that kind of distillation. The T500 column can be applied to the Grainfather to transform it into a column distiller.

Both column and pot still have their place in the distilling realm. They are different horses for different courses.

You are not bound to buy the T500 column if you have a Grainfather. You can adopt a column of your choice to a kettle cover of your choice. But, importantly, the kettle must have the possibility to "lock" the cover in place. This is something that the Grainfather has and my AIO doesn't have.

Not every kettle can be transformed into a still, only a kettle which has a lock mechanism on the cover.

For my distilling needs, I have a normal beer-kettle which is modified by the producer on my request to serve as a still (reinforcement bars on the top, safety valve, and a hole for the column/alembic). On top of this I have a "modular" still, I can use it in alembic configuration or in column configuration.

I cannot do that with my AIO homebrewing kettle. Modifying my kettle would cost too much and would bring too little rigidity for the heavy column I have.

With a Grainfather, you have an easy access to both realm of distillation (pot still and column still) in a simple way. Don't throw it away just because the heater is broken, that's a cheap and replaceable part. And for distilling you don't even need a controller, actually. Just repair the heater and you can use an external voltage regulator.

 

[brewman !]

It's two completely different distiller kinds we are talking about.
...
I cannot do that with my AIO homebrewing kettle.

I can.

I've seen a 4x 48" reflux column plus product condenser on a normal brewing pot lid.

Not every kettle can be transformed into a still, only a kettle which has a lock mechanism on the cover.
Modifying my kettle would cost too much and would bring too little rigidity for the heavy column I have.

I've seen otherwise.

 

[Birrofilo]

I can.

I've seen a 4x 48" reflux column plus product condenser on a normal brewing pot lid.



I've seen otherwise.

You have seen my still kettle. My still kettle is a "normal" brewing pot lid, modified for a lockable cover.
But you must ensure a lock on the cover, else it doesn't work and it is also dangerous.
A normal homebrewing kettle normally doesn't have a lock on the cover, you see. You just put the cover on the kettle, but it doesn't lock.
The Grainfather has a lock because it is meant to be transformed into a still.

 

[brewman !]

You have seen my still kettle. My still kettle is a "normal" brewing pot lid, modified for a lockable cover.
But you must ensure a lock on the cover, else it doesn't work and it is also dangerous.
A normal homebrewing kettle normally doesn't have a lock on the cover, you see. You just put the cover on the kettle, but it doesn't lock.
The Grainfather has a lock because it is meant to be transformed into a still.

It takes 20 minutes and $20 to add lid clips to any brew kettle.

 

[Birrofilo]

It takes 20 minutes and $20 to add lid clips to any brew kettle.

Maybe, I never tried to ask anybody. You have to make some soldering, don't you? And you must find a proper silicon gasket or make one yourself.
Also rigidity of the kettle is very important.
My AIO would never hold the weight of my column.
Actually even the much more robuste kettle I use, notwithstanding the reinforcement on the cover, flexes a lot.
My column is a 2" diameter, with a sight glass, to 50cm element, a dephlegmator, the elbow and a long shotgun condenser, which makes the column lean on one side. The column weights several kg and is more than 1 m tall. This applies a torsion on the kettle top. I actually sustain the column with some ribbons to the ceiling and I keep it stabilized (it wobbles) with a plank from the wall.

You can abstract from the robustness of the kettle/cover if you sustain the column to the wall, which is an option for some (not for me in an apartment).

I said with a Grainfather you have an easy access to a pot still and a column distiller in a simple way. I never said you cannot do otherwise! I did otherwise.

 

[brewman !]

Maybe, I never tried to ask anybody. You have to make some soldering, don't you? And you must find a proper silicon gasket or make one yourself.
Also rigidity of the kettle is very important.
My AIO would never hold the weight of my column.
Actually even the much more robuste kettle I use, notwithstanding the reinforcement on the cover, flexes a lot.
My column is a 2" diameter, with a sight glass, to 50cm element, a dephlegmator, the elbow and a long shotgun condenser, which makes the column lean on one side. The column weights several kg and is more than 1 m tall. This applies a torsion on the kettle top. I actually sustain the column with some ribbons to the ceiling and I keep it stabilized (it wobbles) with a plank from the wall.

You can abstract from the robustness of the kettle/cover if you sustain the column to the wall, which is an option for some (not for me in an apartment).

I said with a Grainfather you have an easy access to a pot still and a column distiller in a simple way. I never said you cannot do otherwise! I did otherwise.

Whatever.

 

[Rik van den berg]

....to get back on topic here:

@WannaB1 , have you made a decision yet? I am 99% sure i landed on the UniBrau 20G. Going to be ordering it in March!

 

[WannaB1]

....to get back on topic here:

@WannaB1 , have you made a decision yet? I am 99% sure i landed on the UniBrau 20G. Going to be ordering it in March!

I was reading back over the messages and seems we are looking for alot of the same things and I was wondering what you had landed on, what was the main factor(s) for you deciding on Unibrau?

After a weekend of trying to find all I can on these I'm leaning toward Spike. Honestly it's down to Spike Solo, Unibrau and Clawhammer. I'm going to also go with a Steam lid regardless of which unit I go with and looks like it'll need to be from spike so that gives them the edge. Only thing Spike and Unibrau didn't have that was on my wish list was a notched handle for lifting the grain with a pulley.

 

[Rik van den berg]

I was reading back over the messages and seems we are looking for alot of the same things and I was wondering what you had landed on, what was the main factor(s) for you deciding on Unibrau?

After a weekend of trying to find all I can on these I'm leaning toward Spike. Honestly it's down to Spike Solo, Unibrau and Clawhammer. I'm going to also go with a Steam lid regardless of which unit I go with and looks like it'll need to be from spike so that gives them the edge. Only thing Spike and Unibrau didn't have that was on my wish list was a notched handle for lifting the grain with a pulley.

What i really like on the UniBrau is:
- the grain basket design and how the wort recirculates onto a ledge and dribbles back into the bed and how it sits on welded notches. The Spike is pretty similar but the ledge is smaller. I don't like the loose clips of the clawhammer and I don't like the Clawhammer basket being all mesh.
- I really like the Hopblock filter with dip tube that Brausupply offers
- the UniBrau offers customization. I have got one in my shopping basket with no pump and chiller but with cool stuff like whirlpool arm, sparge arm, pickup tube with hop filter. Talking to the guys at Clawhammer, they said that they can work with anyone if they don't need a pump or chiller so they seem pretty flexible in this regard too. I don't know how flexible Spike is (haven't asked)

My two contenders at this point are the Spike Solo and the UniBrau, but like I said, I think I'll land on the UniBrau

 

[WannaB1]

What i really like on the UniBrau is:
- the grain basket design and how the wort recirculates onto a ledge and dribbles back into the bed and how it sits on welded notches. The Spike is pretty similar but the ledge is smaller. I don't like the loose clips of the clawhammer and I don't like the Clawhammer basket being all mesh.
- I really like the Hopblock filter with dip tube that Brausupply offers
- the UniBrau offers customization. I have got one in my shopping basket with no pump and chiller but with cool stuff like whirlpool arm, sparge arm, pickup tube with hop filter. Talking to the guys at Clawhammer, they said that they can work with anyone if they don't need a pump or chiller so they seem pretty flexible in this regard too. I don't know how flexible Spike is (haven't asked)

My two contenders at this point are the Spike Solo and the UniBrau, but like I said, I think I'll land on the UniBrau

I seen a video of a guy using his chiller that came with the Unibrau as a steam condenser. I sent an email to Brau last night to get their official stance on that since I can't find any other info on how well that actually works.

 

[NewJersey]

The Unibrau in 240 volt with a non garbage pid gets pretty expensive.
I like that the solo is available in 15 gallon. This means that high gravity 5.5 gallon or 6.5 are no sweat. I hate being forced into a 20 gallon pot.
I have an SS brewtech 1V 10 gallon I use for eBIAB. I honestly wish it were 12.5 gallon, but I understand not having a dozen pot sizes. 20 gallon is annoyingly large imo