American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone

[AnchorBock]

Heres a picture of mine:

I pretty much followed the recipe on page 1 as far as the grist, but mashed at 150 and used WLP002. I changed the hopping up quite a bit to acomodate a hopstand/whirlpool addition - ended up with:
21.3 grams (.75 oz) Citra 13.9% FWH
56.8 grams (2 oz) Citra 13.9% 10 mins
120.7 grams (4.25 oz) Citra 13.9% – 30 minute hot steep
85.2 grams (3 oz) Citra 13.9% Dry hop for 8 days

This turned out awesome - haven't had the real thing in a long time, but this is an excellent beer (tasting notes on my blog). Thanks to all that have worked on this recipe - especially Skeezer.

 

[Chavi]

Here is a picture of mine. The lighting in my house is terrible, but I'm proud of it!

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Heres a picture of mine:

I pretty much followed the recipe on page 1 as far as the grist, but mashed at 150 and used WLP002. I changed the hopping up quite a bit to acomodate a hopstand/whirlpool addition - ended up with:
21.3 grams (.75 oz) Citra 13.9% FWH
56.8 grams (2 oz) Citra 13.9% 10 mins
120.7 grams (4.25 oz) Citra 13.9% – 30 minute hot steep
85.2 grams (3 oz) Citra 13.9% Dry hop for 8 days

This turned out awesome - haven't had the real thing in a long time, but this is an excellent beer (tasting notes on my blog). Thanks to all that have worked on this recipe - especially Skeezer.

Thanks man, and everyone else. Glad everyone is enjoying it! I am gonna rebrew it soon.

 

[crusader1612]

Heres a picture of mine:

I pretty much followed the recipe on page 1 as far as the grist, but mashed at 150 and used WLP002. I changed the hopping up quite a bit to acomodate a hopstand/whirlpool addition - ended up with:
21.3 grams (.75 oz) Citra 13.9% FWH
56.8 grams (2 oz) Citra 13.9% 10 mins
120.7 grams (4.25 oz) Citra 13.9% – 30 minute hot steep
85.2 grams (3 oz) Citra 13.9% Dry hop for 8 days

This turned out awesome - haven't had the real thing in a long time, but this is an excellent beer (tasting notes on my blog). Thanks to all that have worked on this recipe - especially Skeezer.

This looks good, I'm tempted to try this. with the hopstand/whirlpool addition. did you add half at flameout, then the other half after 10-15 mins?? maybe even add as a percolator/hop tea addition, what differences would this offer?

 

[AnchorBock]

This looks good, I'm tempted to try this. with the hopstand/whirlpool addition. did you add half at flameout, then the other half after 10-15 mins?? maybe even add as a percolator/hop tea addition, what differences would this offer?

I added all of it at flameout. I've played around with doing half at flameout and half closer to 170* with other recipes, but I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference yet so I usually just add it all right at flameout. There is definitely room for experimentation here though.

 

[crusader1612]

I added all of it at flameout. I've played around with doing half at flameout and half closer to 170* with other recipes, but I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference yet so I usually just add it all right at flameout. There is definitely room for experimentation here though.

Gotta Love that experimentation with this hobby. My thoughts were theres 120g of flameout hops, if I add 60-70g at flameout and leave it for 20 mins, then cool to temp.
the other part of the process is as follows: around about 750ml of 80 degrees water per 50 g of hops, and steep the hops in this water maintaining this temp for arounf 1-1.5 hours while boiling, cooling and adding to the fermenter before adding the cooled wort on top. Its worked for me in the past, the only issue I felt was there despite no test between thisand adding a normal whirlpool addition was there was missing a flavour contribution. but the aroma was definitely there.

I'm a few months away from this recipe, but I hacve the hops in the freezer ready to go. So I'll be running a test or 2 using 1 gallon batches to compare the differences between beers, and post my results.

 

[dhaverstick]

Ok… I just got done reading all 37 pages and still have a question. I have not yet brewed a PM Recipe; only extract recipes with steeping grains for approximately 30mins. Should I treat this PM recipe as I would any other Extract recipe except that I am steeping a lot more grains for a longer period of time? I plan on brewing a 20 gallon partial boil (15 gallon boil), should I steep with 10 gallons and wash the grains with the remaining 5 gallons? Thanks!

 

[crusader1612]

Ok… I just got done reading all 37 pages and still have a question. I have not yet brewed a PM Recipe; only extract recipes with steeping grains for approximately 30mins. Should I treat this PM recipe as I would any other Extract recipe except that I am steeping a lot more grains for a longer period of time? I plan on brewing a 20 gallon partial boil (15 gallon boil), should I steep with 10 gallons and wash the grains with the remaining 5 gallons? Thanks!

essentially you are correct, longer time more water and more grains. if you wanted to, by the sounds of it you could do all grain, BIAB, its almost exactly the same thing. with the full water volume required. alternatively, you can do it then "sparge" with maybe 5 gallons, at the hotter watertemp to get the rest of the sugar out.

That what I'd do.

 

[dhaverstick]

essentially you are correct, longer time more water and more grains. if you wanted to, by the sounds of it you could do all grain, BIAB, its almost exactly the same thing. with the full water volume required. alternatively, you can do it then "sparge" with maybe 5 gallons, at the hotter watertemp to get the rest of the sugar out.

That what I'd do.

Just so I am understanding correctly, steep all of the recommended grains for the PM recipe in 10 gallons for 60 minutes (in my brew kettle) then add my remaining 5 gallons of water (pull out grain bags and add remaining water by pouring it over/through the grain bags)?

 

[crusader1612]

Pretty much. Make sure to sparge with 76-77 degree Celsius water.
Allow for boil off and grain absorption. If u can do a full boil I'd do that as well better hop utilisation.

 

[AOD]

You can make this recipe *fairly* close with extract and steeping grains by removing the Munich malt and steeping the Carafoam, Caramel 60, and Melanoiden malt.

Add maybe 1/4 to 1/2 pound of extract to make up for the lack of Munich. Keep OG the same.

A note above asked if you can use US-05 on this recipe. Sure, why not? It's not going to be the exact same beer...but US-05 makes a nice clean ale, but slightly drier than the yeast in this recipe.

~Adam

 

[dhaverstick]

You can make this recipe *fairly* close with extract and steeping grains by removing the Munich malt and steeping the Carafoam, Caramel 60, and Melanoiden malt.

Add maybe 1/4 to 1/2 pound of extract to make up for the lack of Munich. Keep OG the same.

A note above asked if you can use US-05 on this recipe. Sure, why not? It's not going to be the exact same beer...but US-05 makes a nice clean ale, but slightly drier than the yeast in this recipe.

~Adam

Should I still steep the carafoam, crystal, and melanoidin for 45-60 minutes our go with the standard 30 minutes for steeping?

 

[fosaisu]

Ok… I just got done reading all 37 pages and still have a question. I have not yet brewed a PM Recipe; only extract recipes with steeping grains for approximately 30mins. Should I treat this PM recipe as I would any other Extract recipe except that I am steeping a lot more grains for a longer period of time? I plan on brewing a 20 gallon partial boil (15 gallon boil), should I steep with 10 gallons and wash the grains with the remaining 5 gallons? Thanks!

I made this Monday (5.5 gallons, not 20!) as my first PM. PM is really simple, nothing to be intimidated by so if you have an extra hour on brew day I'd say go for it! Everything you need to know is in the first few posts of this excellent thread on PMing.

Since I've got all of one PM under my belt I'm no expert, but using half of your water for the mash sounds like too much. I've read that people generally do the mash with 1-2 quarts of water per pound of grain (I went with 1.25 qts/lb which seems to be a popular and safe ratio to use).

So to do your 20 gallon batch I think you'd want to mash:
4 lb Munich Malt
2 lb Carafoam
2 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt
2 lb Melanoiden Malt
*Consider adding several pounds of 2 Row, which is evidently supposed to help the specialty grains convert properly in the mash (reduce the DME accordingly, subtracting ~ .6lb DME for every pound of 2 Row)

If you used the 10 lbs specialy grains plus 4 lbs 2 Row, and went with 1.25 qts/lb, you'd want to sparge in 17.5 qts (4.375 gallons) of water. This website has a calculator the tells you roughly what to heat the mash water to so that it will drop to your desired mash temp once you add your grains. I mashed at 152 F for 1 hour, and things seem to have worked out fine.

There are various techniques for "sparging" (rinsing to extract residual sugars) the grains once the mash is complete. For simplicity's sake I just heated the remainder of my boil water up to 160 F (some people do 170 F) and tea bagged/steeped the grains in there for 10 more mins, then tossed them out, added the mash water to my boil water, and proceeded as I would with a normal extract brew.

Good luck with your brew however you decide to attack it, and I'm very impressed that you're doing 20 gallons!

 

[Tupperwolf]

I just upgraded from a 5g to a 10g mash tun. I finally got sick of being limited on how much grain I could mash and the $75 cost of a bigger cooler with all the hardware is nothing. I'm going to break it in with this beer. I've never had Zombie Dust so I won't have anything to compare my beer to, but I have a little experience with Citra and I'm looking forward to trying it again.

 

[roger617]

I just managed to pick up a couple bottles of ZD this week, as well as have it on tap again. Can't wait to do a side by side in a couple weeks.

 

[Tupperwolf]

Well, my LHBS that just opened is still trying to get on its feet. No Munich or melanoidin malt available and only 7oz of Citra on hand, though it is 14% AA. I'm getting sick of trying to make recipes out of grains they don't have on hand so I might have to put this one off.

 

[nab911]

Just wanted to say I made a batch of this bottled and everyone who tried it said it was amazing. Made another batch with the 1968 and kegged it but I am the only one who has had it so far. Still amazing. Definitely the best I have made yet and I have made about 20 various sized batches.

 

[TangoHotel]

This looks to be a tasty brew. ZD from FFF is one of my favorites. It looks like I'll have to pick up citra in bulk this summer to brew this and another CPA to fight the hot IL weather.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'm brewing mine tomorrow (hopefully). Planning on adding a 30+ minute Hopstand at 140 ºF with unbagged pellets and then runoff through the HopRocket packed with whole cones! Can't get FFF in FL, and never had any single hop Citra brews before. Hope its as good as they say!

TD

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Any reason for 140? I usually see 170-180, which is what I use.

 

[AOD]

Should I still steep the carafoam, crystal, and melanoidin for 45-60 minutes our go with the standard 30 minutes for steeping?

30 minutes should be plenty! You're not mashing, just steeping.

 

[fosaisu]

30 minutes should be plenty! You're not mashing, just steeping.

Yeah, as long as you are doing a steep rather than a mash (meaning you're also replacing the Munich with more extract and are only using the steepable specialty grains) then just use your normal steeping process.

 

[TrickyDick]

Any reason for 140? I usually see 170-180, which is what I use.

Yeah. I been following a thread called
How to get the best flavor and aroma from hop additions. Sorry on iPhone app and dunno how to add a link.
Also been reading the love for hops and listening to some brewing and "hop chemistry expert" from Wisconsin talk about flash points and oil boil off temps etc.
check it out.

 

[dhaverstick]

I made this Monday (5.5 gallons, not 20!) as my first PM. PM is really simple, nothing to be intimidated by so if you have an extra hour on brew day I'd say go for it! Everything you need to know is in the first few posts of this excellent thread on PMing.

Since I've got all of one PM under my belt I'm no expert, but using half of your water for the mash sounds like too much. I've read that people generally do the mash with 1-2 quarts of water per pound of grain (I went with 1.25 qts/lb which seems to be a popular and safe ratio to use).

So to do your 20 gallon batch I think you'd want to mash:
4 lb Munich Malt
2 lb Carafoam
2 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt
2 lb Melanoiden Malt
*Consider adding several pounds of 2 Row, which is evidently supposed to help the specialty grains convert properly in the mash (reduce the DME accordingly, subtracting ~ .6lb DME for every pound of 2 Row)

If you used the 10 lbs specialy grains plus 4 lbs 2 Row, and went with 1.25 qts/lb, you'd want to sparge in 17.5 qts (4.375 gallons) of water. This website has a calculator the tells you roughly what to heat the mash water to so that it will drop to your desired mash temp once you add your grains. I mashed at 152 F for 1 hour, and things seem to have worked out fine.

There are various techniques for "sparging" (rinsing to extract residual sugars) the grains once the mash is complete. For simplicity's sake I just heated the remainder of my boil water up to 160 F (some people do 170 F) and tea bagged/steeped the grains in there for 10 more mins, then tossed them out, added the mash water to my boil water, and proceeded as I would with a normal extract brew.

Good luck with your brew however you decide to attack it, and I'm very impressed that you're doing 20 gallons!

What do you think about subbing Munich LME for the Munich grains and Belgium biscuit for the melanoidin? Both the Munich and melanoidin grains are recommended for mashing only.

 

[TrickyDick]

It's raining zombies!!!


At least it waited until I was almost finished before letting loose. Had to cover a bit here and there in last fifteen minutes. Of course I covered for hop stand I added as well. 4oz Citra for thirty minutes after chilling to 140°F

TD

 

[fosaisu]

What do you think about subbing Munich LME for the Munich grains and Belgium biscuit for the melanoidin? Both the Munich and melanoidin grains are recommended for mashing only.

Sorry, I haven't experimented much with "steepable" substitutions so not sure if Belgium biscuit is a good (and steepable) substitute for melanoidin. One thing to consider about Munich LME - if it's like Wheat LME it may not be 100% Munich (Briess Wheat extract is 65/35 wheat/barley). The Munich LME that Midwest sells, for instance, evidently contains only 50% Munich malt, with the other 50% being "base malt" which I assume would be similar to light or golden LME.

When I've converted all-grain wheat recipes to extract I've adjusted the amount of wheat extract up to account for the fact that every pound of wheat LME contains only .65 pounds of wheat. The math is a little tricky but here's how I did it, assuming conversion of a recipe calling for 1 lb wheat and 1 lb 2-row barley:

• If they made pure, 100% wheat LME I would need .75 lbs of it (using a standard conversion factor of 1 lb grain = .75 lb LME = .6 lb DME). Likewise for the 2-row barley I would need .75 lbs of LME (extra-light, light or golden LME probably aren't pure 2-row barley but there's nothing us extract brewers can do about that!).
• I would start by adding 1.2 lb wheat LME, which will contribute .75 lb pure wheat (1.2 lb x .65 wheat content) and .4 lb barley (1.2 lb x .35 barley content).
• I would then add an additional .35 lb light LME (I have .4 lb barley coming from the wheat LME, so this brings it up to the .75 lb barley total that I want).

Of course it might not be worth the hassle of doing these calculations given the relatively small amount of Munich in this recipe, but it should get you closer to the "real thing" than just using the Munich LME as if it were 100% Munich content.

[NOTE: I don't know that many folks use this approach in converting all-grain recipes to extract -- if you look at the typical extract versions provided alongside all grain recipes (like in Zymergy magazine), they seem to typically just translate wheat grain over to wheat LME using a .75 or similar conversion factor without considering the makeup of the LME. This may be lack of concern with the precision of the extract version, a desire to avoid freaking out rookie extract brewers with extra math, or maybe there's a good reason for not considering the extract makeup that I haven't though of!]

 

[crusader1612]

Can u not get hold of melanoidin? If not I'd use a light crystal 30-40L as biscuit needs to be mashed and you'd not get much out of it.
Munich lme is probably fine. I'd recommend mashing that though cos there's not a lot of the malt and if your intent on using biscuit it'll help with some conversion etc.
diastatic power required to convert and Munich has it not huge amounts but it'll be able to get some of that biscuitiness

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Supposedly Aromatic is a sub or Melanoiden. I would not sub a crystal for it.

 

[crusader1612]

Supposedly Aromatic is a sub or Melanoiden. I would not sub a crystal for it.

thats not what beersmith says? says crystal 20L.
Aromatic will work too probably

 

[skeezerpleezer]

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