This the Ultimate Wort Chiller?

[BrunDog]

Hi all,

I have been happy with my homemade hybrid shell chillers, but wanted something: with high flow, no possibility of clogging, and stainless steel only (no copper, etc.), are effective. Plate chillers have good flow but clog easily (I prefer to whirlpool) and are brazed with copper. Stainless CFC's seem ok but aren't highly effective, especially given my ground water temps here in South Florida. I tested a stainless tube-in-shell chiller made for other applications, and it worked ok but was not effective enough. So, I had a custom one made!

This tube-in-shell chiller is made entirely of 316 stainless, is about 36" long and 2.5" diameter. It has 3/4"NPT female ports all the way around. The inner tubes are convoluted and are about 0.20" ID. It has absolutely no flow restriction and could not be clogged by pellet hops - will make cleaning dead simple with the PBW flush. It has much higher temperature and pressure ratings than we could ever approach brewing. It's total reserved inner volume is about 1 quart. I did a test, chilling 7.5 gallons from boiling (meaning 212 degree water being pumped through it for sanitization before turning on ground water). My ground water temp was 79 degrees.

2:30: 167
5:00: 142
7:30: 123
10:00: 110
12:30: 105
15:00: 100

These times aren't as fast as my chillers, but I think they are very good for my use. In real world application I will chill back into the boil kettle initially, then switch to ice water for the pass into the fermenter. Thoughts?

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[skraeling]

id be concerned with the size. i.e. not enough actual time in contact with the hot wort.

 

[woo_pig]

Yeah i think that is more effective as a condenser.

 

[BrunDog]

Quick responses! There about 20 tubes inside the shell. It's quite a bit of surface area. Anyway, the test tells you what you need to know.

 

[woo_pig]

oh yeah now i see. Thats pretty cool.

 

[maierhof]

Beautiful!!
Nice work - can you make me one too? j/k
This is the only aspect of my system that is copper still... but not for long now.

edit: thanks for the idea! Think I will do something similar...

 

[day_trippr]

The answer is clearly "No"...

Cheers!

 

[brewprint]

Hmmm. I thought getting 11 gallons chilled in 16 minutes was slow with a hydra. I'm not into it.

 

[BrunDog]

The answer is clearly "No"...



Cheers!

Okay... care to elaborate?

 

[BrunDog]

Hmmm. I thought getting 11 gallons chilled in 16 minutes was slow with a hydra. I'm not into it.

Well, it's no plate chiller, that's for certain. I need to play with flow rates to see if I get get it a bit faster but a minute here or there won't mean much. Keep in mind you need time to whirlpool at flameout anyway, so it's not really costing any additional time. Also keep in mind my groundwater temp is ~30+ degrees higher than yours.

 

[day_trippr]

Okay... care to elaborate?

Exotic, yes, it's all of that.
But it doesn't have the performance to reach "Ultimate".
My simple IC does better, but it's copper and has a lot more surface area to work with...

Cheers!

 

[milldoggy]

You can see my experience with one here, looks identical to yours, but mine is shorter. Wish I went larger.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574257

 

[BrunDog]

You can see my experience with one here, looks identical to yours, but mine is shorter. Wish I went larger.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=574257

Yes, I remember that thread. I thought that thing was cool then! You blazed the trail on this style unit!

This one is about 4-5 times that one's length. I can't say how much more efficient it is, but the more exposure to flush water, the better. Like you learned, it has no restrictions, so I need to figure out how much to dial it back. I will mount vertically, my thinking consistent with WP's.

 

[milldoggy]

I am brewing tomorrow and going to try vertical. I did horizontally for the last 5. Agree, the longer the better

I found it is efficient wide open, that is reduced with reduced flow. I am thinking going vertical may create a better mixture and improve contact time on all tubes.

 

[milldoggy]

Can I ask how you got a custom made one? I was going to go larger, but the inlet/outlet npt size increased and I had trouble finding bushings

 

[Paps]

In

 

[BrunDog]

Can I ask how you got a custom made one? I was going to go larger, but the inlet/outlet npt size increased and I had trouble finding bushings

Ya... I paid for it! PM me if you want to upgrade yours. If there is enough interest here we could probably do a group buy.

 

[BrunDog]

Exotic, yes, it's all of that.

But it doesn't have the performance to reach "Ultimate".

My simple IC does better, but it's copper and has a lot more surface area to work with...



Cheers!

Fair enough. No doubt copper conducts better, but that's what I wanted to eliminate as I move toward LODO. I wouldn't change my chillers if it were just about speed/cooling efficiency.

Regarding SA, not sure of that claim, my math calculates almost 50' of tubing equivalency.

 

[brewprint]

Well, it's no plate chiller, that's for certain. I need to play with flow rates to see if I get get it a bit faster but a minute here or there won't mean much. Keep in mind you need time to whirlpool at flameout anyway, so it's not really costing any additional time. Also keep in mind my groundwater temp is ~30+ degrees higher than yours.

Actually the hydra is an immersion chiller.

I would still think that you could have that down to your ground water temp in 15 minutes with a hydra.

If you got it down to 100 degrees in 15 minutes, I would hate to see how long it would take to get down that other 20 degrees. It's that last bit that seems to take longer.

Either way it's not a bad idea. I'm all about speed though.

 

[BrunDog]

My system is automated, so I cannot use an IC. I find not having to do manual things very speedy!

 

[brewprint]

Okay. Mine is and ebiab so just one vessel and a pump. I use a hoist to pick up the basket with the grain. Then I just place the IC in the wort 15 minutes before the boil is done. Then turn on the pump and whirlpool...then done.

You're saying that you couldn't put an IC in there?

 

[thereverendmaynard]

I just went from a 50ft copper immersion to a copper counterflow. Unbelievable difference. Doing 12ish gallon chills in a 20 gal blichman. I chill and go right into the fermentor. With my 52f ground water Im chilling 12 gallons into the fermentor in 7 minutes. Used to take me ~ 40 min with my immersion. A big benefit is not having to chill the whole kettle - it holds a fair amount of heat and provides no value to chill. I also went from ~ 100 gallons of water to ~ 30 gallons.

 

[jcav]

Hey Brun, nice job by the way. I know your system is very different than mine, but if you use ice water and recirculate back into your boil kettle earlier while you whirlpool, (and when you want to start chilling) the temps will drop a lot quicker. On mine I use ground water to about 90 to 100 degrees depending on time of year and recirculate while I still continue to whirlpool in my boil kettle. Then I use two bags of ice in my mash tun with some water and continue to recirculate in my boil kettle until the temp drops into the low 60's and then I go into the fermenter. Just something to think about.....

John

 

[BrunDog]

Okay. You're saying that you couldn't put an IC in there?

I can, but that would require a manual step. My system automatically starts chilling when the boil timer ends. I have electric ball valves switching flow paths automatically.

 

[BrunDog]

Hey Brun, nice job by the way. I know your system is very different than mine, but if you use ice water and recirculate back into your boil kettle earlier while you whirlpool, (and when you want to start chilling) the temps will drop a lot quicker. On mine I use ground water to about 90 to 100 degrees depending on time of year and recirculate while I still continue to whirlpool in my boil kettle. Then I use two bags of ice in my mash tun with some water and continue to recirculate in my boil kettle until the temp drops into the low 60's and then I go into the fermenter. Just something to think about.....



John

Hi John. Good to hear from you! Thanks for the message. I currently chill with two chillers inline, the first uses hose water and the second uses ice/water pumped by a fountain pump. With that I can chill to lager temps in one pass and it takes about 20 lbs of ice.

My plan with this one chiller was to chill the bulk into the kettle, then switch to ice water for the pass into the fermenter. I will probably need to use more ice, but my initial test with icewater worked ok.

 

[brewprint]

I can, but that would require a manual step. My system automatically starts chilling when the boil timer ends. I have electric ball valves switching flow paths automatically.

Wow that is high tech! Sounds very cool!

 

[brewprint]

I just went from a 50ft copper immersion to a copper counterflow. Unbelievable difference. Doing 12ish gallon chills in a 20 gal blichman. I chill and go right into the fermentor. With my 52f ground water Im chilling 12 gallons into the fermentor in 7 minutes. Used to take me ~ 40 min with my immersion. A big benefit is not having to chill the whole kettle - it holds a fair amount of heat and provides no value to chill. I also went from ~ 100 gallons of water to ~ 30 gallons.

That's super fast but literally my hydra chilled my 11 (probably 11.5) in about 12 minutes with the groundwater temp 50F.

 

[BrunDog]

IC times vary dramatically depending on wort movement inside the kettle.

 

[jcav]

Hi John. Good to hear from you! Thanks for the message. I currently chill with two chillers inline, the first uses hose water and the second uses ice/water pumped by a fountain pump. With that I can chill to lager temps in one pass and it takes about 20 lbs of ice.

My plan with this one chiller was to chill the bulk into the kettle, then switch to ice water for the pass into the fermenter. I will probably need to use more ice, but my initial test with icewater worked ok.

Thanks man! I see what your doing now. Sounds like your right there, I bet adding more ice will get you the rest of the way. Very slick chiller you got there!

John

 

[BeardedBrews]

Hey Brun, amazing design!

Regarding tuning your flow rate, the theoretical peak would be the point at which the exiting water and the exiting wort are the same temperature right? Perhaps installing thermometers at both outlets would give you a better feel for how to adjust the flows.

Similarly, you wouldn't have to use water on the cooling side. You could pump anti-freeze out of a drum in a chest freezer for example.

 

[WPStrassburg]

Should have went with TC endcaps so you could pull the ends and clean the tubes to be 100% sure they are clear like most shell & tube exchangers are setup. Would have also removed threads on the cold side. Did you mean 0.2" id for the tubes instead of 0.02"? What wall thickness? Thinner wall would give a bit better exchange if available.
Nice work any which way you look at it and if it meets your needs and expectations that's the most important part

 

[BrunDog]

Good points WP. I already have threaded connections in other places, so it didn't seem necessary to change it here. I circulate at the end of the boil so everything gets sterilized before the flush water is turned on. I also have a CIP process in place, which runs hot PBW through everything for a few hours with pumps running and paused, so I am fairly confident in the post brew cleaning.

Yes, tubes are ~ 0.2". Whoops! Thanks for pointing out.

 

[milldoggy]

Edit- meant to pm that message

I am doing a vertical run with mine tomorrow, already got it flooded.
Make sure you have a mounting system so you can rotate it to get all the air out. Mine traps a lot.

 

[BrunDog]

It will be vertically mounted, wort fed from bottom.

 

[milldoggy]

I was going to try wort exiting the bottom. Any logic around entering the bottom?

 

[BrunDog]

As long as you can ensure there is no air inside, it's ok. You would have to have a pathway for air to back up all the way to the source of when it is displaced by the wort. You don't want the wort "running past" the air inside (like a waterfall). Otherwise you won't get proper heat transfer. Horizontally the pump might push all the air out, but it won't vertically, unless you had a massive pump and volume behind it. Going bottom up ensures the air is evacuated first. I also want to minimize aeration, so this is the orientation to do it.

 

[itsnotrequired]

how long is the tube inside the shell?

 

[maierhof]

Edit- meant to pm that message

I am doing a vertical run with mine tomorrow, already got it flooded.
Make sure you have a mounting system so you can rotate it to get all the air out. Mine traps a lot.

A simple purge with co2 might help that oxidation risk... simple tee before the unit with a ball lock to npt thread or even TC style if you are there yet...

 

[BrunDog]

how long is the tube inside the shell?

Tubes are about 30 inches long and there are 19 of them.

 

[milldoggy]

Tried vertically, mine actually perform better horizontally for heating