Things I Hate about Homebrewers

[houstonbg]

I don't have much to add, but I would like to leave you with a quote that strikes pretty near to the core of what makes homebrewing so appealing to me:

"Beer has long been the prime lubricant in our social intercourse and the sacred throat-anointing fluid that accompanies the ritual of mateship. To sink a few cold ones with the blokes is both an escape and a confirmation of belonging." ~ Rennie Ellis

Admittedly, the quote speaks more to the consumption of beer than the creation of beer, yet the sentiment holds true.

 

[Darwin18]

The OP does have some valid points on his list. That's all I'm going to say about it.

 

[brewbama]

The OP does have some valid points on his list. That's all I'm going to say about it.

I agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Zepth]

Haven't experienced much of the list myself but will also chime in on the infamous #5. Not entirely true at all. Look at the ~$100 starter kit to get the barebones equipment needed, then $15-20 for those dreaded pre-hopped extract kits. Each yields about 48-60 bottles. Based on cheap beer in these parts going for $1 each, that works out to about $30 savings per batch. Equipment pays for itself in 3 batches, then you start the real savings in pocket. I've had some perfectly fine "Basement temperature fermented ale" over the past few years.

This was my game plan when I started, but got bit by the brewing bug and fell into the craft entirely with no possibility of escape. I failed. Though I think I will break even (or save money) should I actually have some self control and stop buying equipment.

 

[rexbanner]

The cost savings has been debated quite a bit, but homebrewing will save you money and you will be making beer as good as commercial examples if you play your cards right. I made it my business and it's definitely paid off, too.

I agree with the OP, but I think the biggest thing is that homebrewers can be totally oblivious and arrogant when it comes to their practices. I was pretty guilty of this myself. For example, no, you don't have to "lager" your marzen for 4 months. Most commercial beer is brewed and pushed out the door, and extended aging times are typically a cover for bad, sloppy fermentations. I used to think it took a lot of time to make bigger styles, but in reality my beer was sub-par. Sure, some benefit from aging, but the only beers I age at the brewery are true sours and some brets because it is absolutely necessary.

 

[unionrdr]

I exercised a little restraint after getting all the little gadgets that make brewing easier & quicker. Then traded a member in Wyoming my large stash of Cooper's PET bottles & some new caps for his 6G BB he wasn't really using anymore. All I need now is an elastic belt to strap 3 or 4 of the refrigerant gel packs to the fermenter under a tee shirt to cool them during initial fermentation. I save the gel packs in the freezer from every liquid yeast I order. I save the White Labs tubes too. Using everything you can any way it'll work is always a bonus. Everything really does work if ya let it!

 

[hlm123]

The OP does have some valid points on his list. That's all I'm going to say about it.

Agreed.

Some of the responses to this thread are what I don't like about reading threads on HBT. Something I see lot of is people getting offended by nothing and then telling the other person to chill out to take it easy.

 

[DSorenson]

Agreed.

Some of the responses to this thread are what I don't like about reading threads on HBT. Something I see lot of is people getting offended by nothing and then telling the other person to chill out to take it easy.

I don't think reading any of this is particularly fun, because honestly I don't feel like it belongs here. I become painfully aware that things are not as copacetic as I would want them to be.

What this thread is really about is that we would all be better off to be polite to one another... I mean... what the thread is really about besides the classic debate over whether or not you can spend less money making quality beer than buying quality beer.

 

[homebrew212]

I don't think reading any of this is particularly fun, because honestly I don't feel like it belongs here. I become painfully aware that things are not as copacetic as I would want them to be.

What this thread is really about is that we would all be better off to be polite to one another... I mean... what the thread is really about besides the classic debate over whether or not you can spend less money making quality beer than buying quality beer.

The thread, as I intended it to be was supposed to be about things that are troublesome in the homebrewing world, at least to me. People really seem to harp on about the savings from homebrewing but these arguments don't hold water.

Homebrewers seem to be very proud of the fact that they can brew beer at a fraction of the cost of commerical beer. I won't go into the math of it because others have done that but why is this such a contentious point? Is it really so gratifying to go into the beverage store and look at a 6 pack and say "I can do that cheaper?"

I will restate my earlier point since it has been lost amid all of the anger "We brew because it's fun!" Not because we can buy the same thing around the corner or to tell our neighbor that hey "this costs $0.50 a pint to make."

Quality should be the most important marker for a homebrewer, not cost, not metals (although they come with quality), and most certainly not showing up the next guy.

 

[Fuzzymittenbrewing]

The thread, as I intended it to be was supposed to be about things that are troublesome in the homebrewing world, at least to me. People really seem to harp on about the savings from homebrewing but these arguments don't hold water.

Homebrewers seem to be very proud of the fact that they can brew beer at a fraction of the cost of commerical beer. I won't go into the math of it because others have done that but why is this such a contentious point? Is it really so gratifying to go into the beverage store and look at a 6 pack and say "I can do that cheaper?"

I will restate my earlier point since it has been lost amid all of the anger "We brew because it's fun!" Not because we can buy the same thing around the corner or to tell our neighbor that hey "this costs $0.50 a pint to make."

Quality should be the most important marker for a homebrewer, not cost, not metals (although they come with quality), and most certainly not showing up the next guy.

Quality should be the most important marker if your a pro. Relaxing and enjoying what you do should be most important if its a hobby. Why would you want to turn a hobby into stress??

 

[DSorenson]

The thread, as I intended it to be was supposed to be about things that are troublesome in the homebrewing world, at least to me. People really seem to harp on about the savings from homebrewing but these arguments don't hold water.

Homebrewers seem to be very proud of the fact that they can brew beer at a fraction of the cost of commerical beer. I won't go into the math of it because others have done that but why is this such a contentious point? Is it really so gratifying to go into the beverage store and look at a 6 pack and say "I can do that cheaper?"

I will restate my earlier point since it has been lost amid all of the anger "We brew because it's fun!" Not because we can buy the same thing around the corner or to tell our neighbor that hey "this costs $0.50 a pint to make."

Quality should be the most important marker for a homebrewer, not cost, not metals (although they come with quality), and most certainly not showing up the next guy.

Well it sounds like you have some interesting opinions. That's something you share in common with everyone on this forum. There isn't always a "right way" or "wrong way" to do or consider something, but there is always a polite way to convey it.

Perhaps you wouldn't be as irritated if people said things like
"well, I take 4 months to lager my beer... but I'm glad you seem to get positive results"
or
"Money's tight, but brewing cream ales keeps me enjoying decent homebrew on the cheap! Does any one know other ways to save and produce good beer?"

 

[Cyclman]

I travel for my job, and meet homebrewers all around the country. From my anecdotal experience, they're friendly, sharing, great people.

Homebrewing isn't about any one thing, it is what each brewer wants to make it.

Most of the top brewers in the US started as homebrewers, are they all overbearing and annoying too? In my experience, just the opposite.

Maybe homebrewer forums aren't your thing.

 

[hlm123]

I don't think reading any of this is particularly fun, because honestly I don't feel like it belongs here. I become painfully aware that things are not as copacetic as I would want them to be.

What this thread is really about is that we would all be better off to be polite to one another... I mean... what the thread is really about besides the classic debate over whether or not you can spend less money making quality beer than buying quality beer.

I guess it's a matter of taste, to me offering sincere criticism is copacetic. Clearly stating your opinion (What I hate is the following...) is polite.

 

[Malticulous]

I wish I could get together with homeberwers more often. There aren't that many here. Sure that often involves drinking some bad beer but it's free and I try to be as nice and be helpful as I can. It's really hard when people serve up bad beer and are not willing to discus it's flaws. I'm just trying to be helpful but that can come off as condescending. It's a tough balance but worth it.

 

[JayDubWill]

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Wait, people have hobbies to SAVE money?

See, that is the beauty of a hobby: you never need to justify expenses. I love hobbies!

 

[seph]

See, that is the beauty of a hobby: you never need to justify expenses. I love hobbies!

Not true. I have to try and justify my hobby expenses to swmbo all the time.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Not true. I have to try and justify my hobby expenses to swmbo all the time.

Ahh good point. I'll have to get back to you shortly... Getting married in t-minus 12 days...

 

[grathan]

Homebrewers get too passionate over minor details (myself included) and the conversation finds itself in weird spots, especially when non-homebrewers are around.

 

[mmb]

I love the hobby of homebrewing more than any other activity but sometimes it can get kind of overbearing and downright annoying. For that reason I've decided to compile a list of the things I hate about homebrewers in no particular order .Really my only goal is get people to think about their brewing and beer. This is just a list of things I've noticed by reading countless brewing forums and going to homebrew events.


1. Those homebrewers who denounce a process because it didn't work for them. ie) "I get nothing out of decoction mashing so therefore it must be crap."

2. Going to an event where homebrewers are pouring their beer and much of it is oxidized, too estery, or tastes like rocket fuel.

3. Those homebrewers who put just about anything into their beer and think it's awesome. I mean Sam Calagione has built a brewery on putting any random **** into his beer but that doesn't mean everybody should. I've had one too many Olive IPA's to think putting any odd thing into a beer is a good beer.

4. People who have had "great" results by brewing a certain way and therefore this process must work for everyone. ie) "I fermented my saison in my hot Texas shed for 90 days and it tastes amazing, THIS is the way to make a saison."

5. People who use the cost savings to justify their brewing beer. Brewing your own beer WELL does not save you money. Besides, what is wrong with buying great commerical beer, there are lots of breweries doing great stuff and they should be supported. We brew beer because it's fun, not because we're saving anything...time certainly isn't one of them.

6. Homebrewers who focus all of their attention on making a batch of wort but then underpitch, don't oxygenate, ferment at 100 degrees and then ask why their beer sucks.

7. Overly proud homebrewers...just because you won a ribbon or everyone loves your beer doesn't mean you're the end all or be all of homebrewing.

I am by no means an expert homebrewer but sometimes I just get pissed off by how our hobby conducts itself. Feel free to call me an idiot, POS, or any other name...or to add to this list.

I don't think you're an idiot, a POS, or any other name. However, I think you're reflecting your self view into your list of "hates." You hate those that say something doesn't work because it doesn't work for them (1) while also hating those that say if something works from them it, therefore, must work for everyone (4). You also say that you hate homebrewers that think their "weird" beer is awesome when you don't like it (3) and that you hate someone who has a high opinion of their abilities as judged in beer competition (7).

You're basically saying you hate brewers that have strong opinions about anything homebrewing related, but this whole list only reflects your strongly held opinions about homebrewing. Either you're reflecting your self hate onto a group you strongly associate your self image with, to the point of taking "homebrew" as your screen-name and base identifying trade on a homebrewing forum, and/or you strongly dislike anyone who displays similar traits to yourself.

Holding so much self loathing in until you have to vent in an, arguably, public forum, is really bad for your personal actualization and growth, both short and long term. It might be time to talk with someone in a professional manner about your anger. Life is too short to let such things affect you so.

 

[cmoewes]

I love the hobby of homebrewing more than any other activity but sometimes it can get kind of overbearing and downright annoying. For that reason I've decided to compile a list of the things I hate about homebrewers in no particular order .Really my only goal is get people to think about their brewing and beer. This is just a list of things I've noticed by reading countless brewing forums and going to homebrew events.


1. Those homebrewers who denounce a process because it didn't work for them. ie) "I get nothing out of decoction mashing so therefore it must be crap."

In my opinion, I think that a lot of people could benefit by including "in my experience", "in my opinion" or "for me" to the end of every statement they make. We know that most of what people express are opinions and opinions are made from experiences so what else would they say. Why not look at these expressions and an opportunity to share your experience, maybe educate someone and help them get a better understanding of what they are doing?

2. Going to an event where homebrewers are pouring their beer and much of it is oxidized, too estery, or tastes like rocket fuel.

Isn't this the point of bringing a beer to a homebrew event to share? I assume that you share you observations with the brewer when this happens. Possible trying to work together to understand what flavors you are picking up on (not everyone's palate can detect the same flavors) and discuss what techniques (possible even decoction) could help to improve that person's beers.

3. Those homebrewers who put just about anything into their beer and think it's awesome. I mean Sam Calagione has built a brewery on putting any random **** into his beer but that doesn't mean everybody should. I've had one too many Olive IPA's to think putting any odd thing into a beer is a good beer.

Kudos to you for always being willing to taste something you know you aren't going to like. But if that is the case, stop drinking Olive IPAs. That seems to be the best solution. Again, a healthy dose of "for me" here makes this statement go down better, in my opinion.

But your comment about Dogfishhead seems a little dogmatic to me. If Sam can do it (which you seem ok with), WHY can't anyone else? Just because one person does something well (in some people's opinion) does that mean that other people can't? That seems like a recipe for stagnation. Maybe every experiment doesn't deserve more than a passing glance, but who's to judge it. I applaud people for being willing to share things that they came up with... but I've never drank an Olive IPA.

4. People who have had "great" results by brewing a certain way and therefore this process must work for everyone. ie) "I fermented my saison in my hot Texas shed for 90 days and it tastes amazing, THIS is the way to make a saison."

This seems the inverse of #1 and again a critique of experience and opinion. To that lucky Texan, that IS the way to make saison. For me the way to make saison is... well ... actually in 40+ batches of beer I haven't made a saison so I don't know the way. But once I do, if it's good, I guarantee you THAT will be THE WAY... at least for me.

5. People who use the cost savings to justify their brewing beer. Brewing your own beer WELL does not save you money. Besides, what is wrong with buying great commerical beer, there are lots of breweries doing great stuff and they should be supported. We brew beer because it's fun, not because we're saving anything...time certainly isn't one of them.

Yeah... math. Do you take the capital expense as a one time hit, or amortize it across all the batches of beer you make. Plus do you exclude some, since technically any hobby costs money. And what about opportunity cost, I know what I bill per hour so that makes my beer more expensive, except that this is my down time, so do I factor in the cost of what else I might be doing, or the cost of the psychiatrist if I didn't have a hobby to relax. For me, in raw materials I can make a good beer, per unit, for less that what I would spend at the liquor store. But that doesn't mean that I don't buy commercial stuff. These two aren't mutually exclusive.

6. Homebrewers who focus all of their attention on making a batch of wort but then underpitch, don't oxygenate, ferment at 100 degrees and then ask why their beer sucks.

So tell them. If I was missing out on those fundamentals and that was leading to me making bad beer, I would want someone to tell me. See #2

7. Overly proud homebrewers...just because you won a ribbon or everyone loves your beer doesn't mean you're the end all or be all of homebrewing.

Pride and arrogance aren't the same thing. If you make something good, and you like it, great. If other people like it even better. Nothing wrong with having some pride in your accomplishments. And if you are good at something, and can share that experience and knowledge even more so (see #6 and #2). But being arrogant about it isn't good. Thankfully, in my experience, the best brewers I've met (both homebrewers and professional brewers) and all very modest. They know that they are good at what they do, they take pride in it, but they don't fall victim to hubris. I'm sorry that the other brewers you've met can't make that claim.

I am by no means an expert homebrewer but sometimes I just get pissed off by how our hobby conducts itself. Feel free to call me an idiot, POS, or any other name...or to add to this list.

OK, with your permission, your an idiot, a POS and a number of other things...

This turned out to be quite the thread and got a lot of people going (including myself). And if I had to put my finger on it it was this line

by how our hobby conducts itself.

Your implication being that everyone is like this. In my opinion, thought not in my direct experience, if you had addressed that "by how some people in our hobby conduct themselves", would have made all the difference.

That and not offering any solution to those complaints. For me, if you are going to criticize something, try to make it better. Don't knock it down, build it up.

If someone made a beer, and they liked it but you think there was an issue, don't be offended by their pride, help them improve it... Maybe resist the urge to do a spit take, but don't taste it and then walk away thinking "This person has ruined my hobby by serving that cr@p". Leave that to the BJCP judges. Ask them a question, make a comment "Is there a little diacetyl in there? What do you do to control your fermentation temperature" or "This is kind of alcoholly, do you use a yeast starter?"

If someone offers you another Olive IPA, decline... "No thanks, that's just not my style... Leave that kind of breweing to Calagione, am I right... have you ever tried brewing a Kolsch? I'm amazed at how difficult such a simple beer is."

So, to hit every point you made, allow me to add one.

8. People who criticize but don't critique. People who make (snarky) comments behind someones back without intending try help the target of their sneering.

And I think that in order to resolve #8, people need to be willing to take the time, think about what they have experienced, share what they have learned and try to make the next experience for both people better.

 

[jahdub]

If all you drink is IPA/PA/porters then you definitely take longer to recoup your costs. However a decent Belgian dubbel is 3.50 at total wine for 350ml bottle. So multiply that by 50 to get 175 dollars for 5 gallons. So a nice homemade Belgian dubbel that you spend 60 dollars on in ingredients nets you a gain of 115 dollars. That means in 5-6 batches you have easily recouped your costs for most set ups. If you make some decent lagers (like doppelbocks/dunkels) then the cost recovery is about 50 dollars a batch for me. The idea that you cannot save money by brewing the beer yourself is patently silly. Just because people choose to brew beers that are easy and cheap to find doesn't mean you can't save some serious cash with brewing. It is a lot like cooking, if you are just making preformed burgers in a frying pan then you can certainly get the same from McDonald's or burger king for roughly the same cost. However if you take the time to properly make a delicious baklava or truffles then the savings is very obvious. Just my $.02

This. I haven't made any doubles yet, but all of the beers I brew are recreations of stuff that is expensive / not easily available. If I want two hearted ale, I'll just buy some. I mostly brew hop bomb DIPAs and RIS. Some doubles and tripels are in the works, too. It would cost me well over $200 (probably closer to $300) to buy 5 gallons of PTE, if I could even find it.

 

[eadavis80]

While the INGREDIENTS for your bombers might have cost that, did you add in the cost of the equipment to brew with those value-priced ingredients? I think I'm probably about to the point where I'm breaking even given what I've spent on equipment/supplies and then think about how much beer I've brewed if you value each 12 ounce homebrew to about $3. I think there CAN be some cost savings here, but I do agree that you're foolish if you go into homebrewing ONLY for savings on your beer. Odds are, even if you're very modest with your initial setup, you will add extra supplies once you brew a few batches. How many of us on this forum still only have 1 primary bucket, 1 bottling bucket, a spoon, an airlock, an auto-siphon, bottles, caps, a 3 gallon kettle, cleanser and sanitizer? I doubt anyone.

 

[cheezydemon3]

KNOW WUT I HATE ABOUT CHRISTIANS??


1 How they protest military funerals

2 How they wage crusades

3 How they go on the radio and TV and ask for all of your money...



DURRRRRRRR

Don't hate everyone for what a few do.

Know wut I hate about homebrewers?


1 When they post trolling threads about what they hate about homebrewers....

WTF????

 

[mmb]

While the INGREDIENTS for your bombers might have cost that, did you add in the cost of the equipment to brew with those value-priced ingredients? I think I'm probably about to the point where I'm breaking even given what I've spent on equipment/supplies and then think about how much beer I've brewed if you value each 12 ounce homebrew to about $3. I think there CAN be some cost savings here, but I do agree that you're foolish if you go into homebrewing ONLY for savings on your beer. Odds are, even if you're very modest with your initial setup, you will add extra supplies once you brew a few batches. How many of us on this forum still only have 1 primary bucket, 1 bottling bucket, a spoon, an airlock, an auto-siphon, bottles, caps, a 3 gallon kettle, cleanser and sanitizer? I doubt anyone.

The members of this forum are not "normal" homebrewers by any measure of the definition. There are only 187,000+ members here. There are only 44,000+ registered members of the AHA.

However, there are an estimated 1.2-1.5 million Americans that are homebrewers. The kit and a kilo/Mr.Beer homebrewer is the norm.

 

[hio3791]

I dislike all the homebrewers that keep signing up for all these HomebrewTalk giveaways. I want to win something too!

I also don't get why people get so worked up by postings on internet forums. It's the internet people. You CAN be doing something else.

Gotta get back to signing up for HomebrewTalk giveaways..

 

[MindenMan]

I will start by saying I read the first 3 pages, and the last two, that said, I have been involved with two different Home Brew clubs. The first many years ago when I went to my first meeting, it was a potluck BBQ, and I was blown away by how genuine and sincere everybody was. It was obvious I was new, and I was made to feel at home by what seemed to be everyone.
All these years later, I am a "charter" member of a new brew club that meets at our local store once a month, and so far there are 34 people on the email list. Our second meeting was a blast, there was more than 20 of the members there, with everybody bringing at least two offerings for sampling. I didn't taste everything as I had to drive myself home, and there wasn't a mutt in the bunch. There were sincere critiques with no ruffled egos, and I wished we met more than once a month.

 

[Hello]

OP I think you need to relax, really. You seem to generalize home brewers and we're not all like that. So what if we're proud? So what if we think or can get a couple cases of beer at a fraction of what other craft beer costs? So what if we spend all the time and money to brew but **** up by not controlling temps? Just relax because it does not affect your bottom line.

One point I do realize is more of an issue is the people who believe home brew tastes terrible are the people who were handed something that was just not brewed well. Those people either never venture out again to try home brew or they do and their minds can be changed. I've done it and I was successful. I know, I'm gloating like a ****ing ****** because I changed someone's opinion of HB, but I did. I did not get a ribbon though, so I am not the be all end all.

I just think that basically you're not going to enjoy your hobby if you continue to worry so much about this stuff. The best thing you can ever do for yourself is ask if any of this affects your bottom line and if not, forget about it.

 

[Zepth]

How many of us on this forum still only have 1 primary bucket, 1 bottling bucket, a spoon, an airlock, an auto-siphon, bottles, caps, a 3 gallon kettle, cleanser and sanitizer? I doubt anyone.

My father had 2 buckets, 2 carboys, capper, bottles, and a handful of tubing. And with that...
How many homebrewers are happy with canned extract kits and not on the forum at all?

 

[seckert]

and remember, most of us BUILD our equipment.. saving even more $$$.
I mostly make Belgians.. Chimay blue is 15.99 for the corked bottle here in PA. I have been brewing for a few years now and all I can say is.. cha-ching!!
I know I saved money. Cheap setup coolers.. copper pipe.. LP converted to natural gas, dual in-line water filters, Chinook & Willamette growing in the back yard... list goes on. I got into homebrewing to save money.. Pennsylvania liquor tax is an outrage!! I refuse to pay it. unless I go out with some buddies.. then I support local breweries like yuengling, and Weyerbacher.

This is great to know that you can grow hops in your backyard in PA. I am looking to move back there in a year or so and was wondering about being able to grow them. Now do you have to take them in during the winter?