Things about your co-workers that annoy you

[Billy-Klubb]

Funny thing about this topic now that it has been started are those that are in agreement with me about me being a d!ck are in my experience (21 years of self employment ) fall into one of 2 catagories, 1- they are the ones stealing from the boss, time, equipment, ect. Or 2 - they have never been promoted to a position that would allow other employees have an effect on their pay especially where the difference in pay can be thousands in a pay period.

I'm gonna disagree with you on the falling into one and/or 2 categories. you treat your employees like machines, they will start to do what they can to feel like they are getting one over on "the man". one of my favorite quotes about leadership (not just a manager, supervisor, or boss) is, "No one will care how much you know until they know how much you care". if you plan on treating the employees like broken money sucking equipment, you'll have to accept the fact that you will be the common enemy. I'm not saying that there aren't any bad apples in the barrel. I know that there are. but treating all the apples like they're bad will eventually spoil your crop. by instantly categorizing people that you don't know by a few comments on the interwebs publicly shows how you might treat employees. here's the real question: do you feel that you are better than the employees?

 

[ubnserved]

I'm gonna disagree with you on the falling into one and/or 2 categories. you treat your employees like machines, they will start to do what they can to feel like they are getting one over on "the man". one of my favorite quotes about leadership (not just a manager, supervisor, or boss) is, "No one will care how much you know until they know how much you care". if you plan on treating the employees like broken money sucking equipment, you'll have to accept the fact that you will be the common enemy. I'm not saying that there aren't any bad apples in the barrel. I know that there are. but treating all the apples like they're bad will eventually spoil your crop. by instantly categorizing people that you don't know by a few comments on the interwebs publicly shows how you might treat employees. here's the real question: do you feel that you are better than the employees?

See that's the thing I don't feel one way or another. I also don't feel one way or another about their personal lives, etc. They have friends and family for that stuff. I hire people for one and one thing only and I know the ins and outs of keeping people who are worth the price happy with the money they make and the job they do. I also paid employees to take advanced training and paid for the training. I also worked just as hard as any employee and was in the. shop more than any of them. I started my day at the shop at 7 2 hours before any of them and ended my day between 6 and 9 hours after the 5 o'clock quitting time. The great guy got promotion, the good guys kept their jobs the rif -Raf got the road. My wife has often called me heartless I tell her that I am a realist and that once you realize the no one really cares about you or your life or family and friends life becomes less complicated. My wife never believed me then after working in managment for a large drug company for 13 years she was injured by some falling shelves and subsequently fired several days after she was released from the dr.
You can say that I don't know what I am doing but as a member of management teams for going on 30 years would guess that I know what I am doing.

 

[drainbamage]

So you think it was acceptable that your wife was fired over a workplace injury?

 

[hopfool]

Funny thing about this topic now that it has been started are those that are in agreement with me about me being a d!ck are in my experience (21 years of self employment ) fall into one of 2 catagories, 1- they are the ones stealing from the boss, time, equipment, ect. Or 2 - they have never been promoted to a position that would allow other employees have an effect on their pay especially where the difference in pay can be thousands in a pay period.

While I do recognize the types, I would have to say that there are obviously lots of other categories of employees. People are a bit more complicated than that. My greatest disappointment was in seeing that there are so many who will continue to work someplace where they can't find a way to motivate themselves to do any better than just enough. I don't really know how to speak to that type of life, but it's really pretty depressing... and unnecessary. Kinda like drinking crappy beer really. We have so few days on this earth, it seems a shame to waste it in a passionless existence, fighting with each other, eating bad food, or drinking crappy beer.

Of course I also don't understand why people blindly support American hegemony, industrialized GMO foods, and the disinsentivization of our workforce through fascist socialist policies, but that's also why I retired out in the middle of nowhere and try not to follow the news. It's not likely that I'll be made King any time soon, so what I think doesn't really mean squat. I'm just happy to be done with it. The government convinced me a good while back that the last thing that I ever wanted to do again is to risk my capital to start a business and create jobs. Like the idiot before this idiot said... "mission accomplished".

You know absolutely nothing about people like headbanger and I, but with less than a page a page of text that you yourself volunteered, we basically know all we need to know.

Enjoy your life, or die in a fire, it doesnt really matter to me. You are squelched going forward.

Can't speak to headbanger or ubnserved, but your recent interview with Austin tells me that you and I might have more in common than not.

My son was named after the Colonel of the 20th Maine (because of Fredericksburg, not Gettysburg). My father's family had farms all around Boonesboro and Sharpsburg and buried members in the cemetery by Dunker Church back before the War for Independence. Matter of fact my great uncle preached the last sermon given there.

After sharing a copy of Confederate's in the Attic with my brother, we decided to sneak out and sleep in "The Bloody Lane" one night, as well as bivouacking under the stars illegally on several other battlefields visited by the ANV and the AP.

I suppose after eating hard tack, fetid pork fat, and green corn, okra beer doesn't sound all that intimidating.

One of the great pleasures of my life was getting the chance to meet and speak with Shelby Foote before his passing.

... and BTW, your drinking horn is sweet, but you really should wear an animal skin and spangenhelm whilst drinking from it.

 

[hopfool]

Had the pleasure and opportunity to work with and learn from many extremely successful people, and while I do empathize with the experiences that helped form ubnserverved's cynicism, there are several significant commonalities that successful leaders share. The most important is that of being able to infect their employees with a shared or common vision. That's pretty much where it starts, and even if you're not a student of psychology, most folks are familiar enough with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs to realize that people invest in their jobs and apply themselves for more than just a pay check. Just leading by example is often nowhere near enough. Like I said however, if you are effective in motivating the majority, and you develop that "shared vision" bond, you can ill afford to tolerate someone coming in who doesn't get it, or doesn't want to buy in, for very long. Other than the simple fact that they aren't going to be as productive as they could or should, their presence will often prove corrosive to the rest of the team (getting back to Billy-Klubb's apple analogy).


On yet another tangent, regarding workplace injuries and the Workers Compensation system scam... it is nothing more than a guaranteed way of providing employers a way to limit their liability when their attempts to make money result in messing somebody's life up. It essentially works a lot like environmental law in that it is a total sham that ultimately transfers the true liability of the responsible business onto all of us. Of course there are several major businesses that benefit more from this system than others, and they are generally the ones who made enough money to be able to afford to buy whatever whorish politicians and legislators were necessary to get the laws passed that they wanted. It is the very essence of what has passed for capitalism in America for the last hundred plus years. The whole W/C scam has absolutely nothing to do with any continuum of care or the making of any injured worker whole either physically of financially.

 

[ubnserved]

So you think it was acceptable that your wife was fired over a workplace injury?

Acceptable or not she was injured because someone half assed the job they were hired to do. Being fired is part of life and it sucks and sometimes it is not fair but it happens. Employers should have control over who they keep and who they don't. Her being terminated allowed her to move on to other experiences that she would not have had other wise. The real question is do I think that she was entitled for whatever reason and the answer is no we probably could have sued for her to keep the job but I see 2 problems with that. One - why would you want to keep a job where they don't want you anymore. Two - what make her so special that the company is forced to employ someone they no longer wish keep. The severance package was pretty good and that helped with the sting also.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

sure you got it figured out. keep it cold and sterile. you might be a great guy outside of work, but you sound like a d!(k to work for.

 

[Jsamp]

Yeah he sounds like a real dbag. I wouldn't want to work for him.

 

[Kee]

Intimidation is a supervisory style that can work very well---at least up to a point and depending on the type of work being done. It's popular because it takes the least amount of skill. All you need is a lack of empathy and a willingness to be ruthless.

Being a leader that motivates people to be part of something greater (a team) is not that easy, and takes a certain amount of talent.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I'm gonna disagree with you on the falling into one and/or 2 categories. you treat your employees like machines, they will start to do what they can to feel like they are getting one over on "the man". one of my favorite quotes about leadership (not just a manager, supervisor, or boss) is, "No one will care how much you know until they know how much you care". if you plan on treating the employees like broken money sucking equipment, you'll have to accept the fact that you will be the common enemy. I'm not saying that there aren't any bad apples in the barrel. I know that there are. but treating all the apples like they're bad will eventually spoil your crop. by instantly categorizing people that you don't know by a few comments on the interwebs publicly shows how you might treat employees. here's the real question: do you feel that you are better than the employees?

I'm just quoting this so I can click the "like" button again.

Edit: I guess you can't like your own posts. It looks like it's time to make a second account so I can like it again.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Lets be nice. This is his opinion on how work works best. Opinions are like A-Holes. Everyone has one, and everyone thinks that everyone elses stinks.

Besides, we are getting combatative, And there are many other flavors of annoying coworkers. The ones that ask the same question 4 times a day every day and do not learn from experience. or do not want to.

Let me go back to my stinky coworker. Body odors are distracting and offensive, but it could be medical so you cant say anything.
Forced office political correctness or whatever the term is now, you should be able to good naturedly harass coworkers without fear of being fired. I find work tends to, well, work better when you can have a little fun with it.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

The woman who works an 8 to 5 shift with a 1 hour lunch. Takes her lunch at 3, comes back at 4, leaves at 5. Don't know why, but this bugs me to no end and her lunch time has no effect on my job whatsoever.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[fuzzy2133]

Dear lord what did I start...

All managers and business owners have their own styles. Some industries require a person to be a rough/gritty at times. Being polite only takes you so far when a company you contract with falls short or fails on what they are supposed to be capable of doing. I have my fair share of issues with a truck dealer that is "certified" to work on our fleet trucks. The latest issue was they had to special order a 100 foot network cable to reprogram the ecm. They didn't like it when I started asking asking why something from the local electronics store would not work (cat5e or cat6 cable?) or why not move the truck closer? Our truck was magically ready on Friday after I asked if I needed to tow it to another shop.

I do not think ubnserved is practicing improper terminations, if he is he probably has a really good legal team keeping him in business. With internet sites like glassdoor you can not hide poor leadership/management practices.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Let me go back to my stinky coworker. Body odors are distracting and offensive, but it could be medical so you cant say anything.
Forced office political correctness or whatever the term is now, you should be able to good naturedly harass coworkers without fear of being fired. I find work tends to, well, work better when you can have a little fun with it.

I call work my super dysfunctional family.

 

[Melana]

Golly.... This thread went from fun to angry fast.

 

[n240sxguy]

ubnserved- what kind of business do you run? Just out of curiosity.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Golly.... This thread went from fun to angry fast.

you shoulda seen me in the bar (or just in public) 10 years ago. hahahaa!!!

we have this guy that has to have his nose in everyone's business. since our plant moved to a new building in a different town, I've lost work space. this butthole is all worried about another coworker moving into the spot next to me and trying to tell me how I need to rearrange my area so this other guy has room to store the knuckle jig. butthole's afraid it's gonna end up in his end of the shop. he's also worried about when I go on lunch, even though it affects NO ONE in the shop when any of us go on lunch. floccin' annoying.

 

[user 198378]

Should go in the YouTube thread but I think works better here

http://youtu.be/-EyG_CYf-S0

 

[hopfool]

Intimidation is a supervisory style that can work very well---at least up to a point and depending on the type of work being done. It's popular because it takes the least amount of skill. All you need is a lack of empathy and a willingness to be ruthless.

Being a leader that motivates people to be part of something greater (a team) is not that easy, and takes a certain amount of talent.

Now take a look at the drones that "We the People" pay to support and provide us with limitless torment. I have yet to witness a single instance of public teat sucking, er... government employment, where there was any kind of leadership at all. The only emphasis that they seem to share is to not make waves or attract attention to themselves (and by extension their supervisors), while all continue what is most important of all to them... keeping their typically useless jobs.

As a taxpayer I would have to say that nearly every government employee that we pay annoys the crap out of me. From the power tripping, pre-pubescent, half idiot local police, who seem to have completely forgotten that whole "protect and serve" thing, to the crooked, 'roid raging, power tripping HLS criminal that I witnessed selling expensive gear that we paid for to a local gun shop owner. From the "talk to the hand" beotches at the Vital Records office who threatened to put my request for a Birth Certificate copy back on the bottom of their pile if I didn't just sit down and shut up (I asked once after a two hour wait how much longer they thought it might be... while they were all taking turns doing their nails and eating at their desks while BS'ing about everything under the sun), to the County roads crew that used to sit down the street from my house and play cards in their truck for half the day... every day, and to their supervisor who couldn't have cared less because "they always mange to finish everything that they are supposed to do". I guess the idea of firing half of their unnecessary azzes would never occur to anyone.

[ I tried to report the HLS criminal to their IG but they refused to even take my complaint. It was filed in writing (per their requirements) and after three attempts they never responded and refused to discuss any of it over the phone. I was also not allowed to visit their secret and secure facility in person (again, remember, these anus leakage puddles work for us). Then I filed the same complaint with Mr. Holder's office, since the HLS IG wasn't doing their job at all. Six months of the same kind of BS later their "investigator" finally sent me a letter stating that they could find nothing wrong. I insisted on meeting the idiot in person again and he informed me that when he asked the HLS (thief) if he had done what I claimed... he said no... so investigation concluded. I think gobsmacked best describes my state upon being told that. We had met in a public library, and when I took issue with his idiocy he very condescendingly "e'splained" to me in his best Ebonics, that he was "a investigator, not a detective". I walked ten steps to the reference section and took down the Oxford Unabridged, looked up "investigator" for him, placed a bookmark, and then looked up "detective" for him. Remarkably, an "investigator" is one who detects, and a "detective" is one who investigates. This inarticulate maroon was on-line, looking at $400,000 houses near Philly when I arrived, and he left driving a brand new 500 series Mercedes, and that ain't no lie or exaggeration in the least. He also admitted to having kids by three different women, none of which he was married to, so I guess that explains how he could afford the house and car(s) (he also had a new Camry... with the gold trim package, that he was driving the first time that we met). His credentials BTW... six years in the Navy... as a cook. Somehow managed to make E-5 in just those six years... impressive.
NOT!]

Met an English major with zero business background who worked for the SBA. He admitted that his duties amounted to printing out a copy of a report, when requested by his likewise useless supervisor, that was wholly promulgated by a new software package. There were eight useless tits on a bore hog just like him in his office. The reports were nothing more than a synopsis of the utilization of SBA guarantees. Of course since lending guidelines for small businesses all tightened up after the mortgage melt down (one has nothing at all to do with the other, but that's where all of the liquidity went) his department, by his own admission, didn't even have enough to keep just one of them busy. His pay and benefit package BTW, like the rest of the Ferals in and around DC, averages almost $140,000 a year. When I suggested that we should fire all of them, since there wasn't any reason to have them in the first place, he very immediately and sincerely responded that we couldn't of course, but beside that, that when the economy recovered we would need them once again. Imagine that... first of all we never "needed" any of the crap that they supposedly do anyway. Secondly, where else in the world can you get a job and sit around doing nothing because someone might need you sometime in the future??? And of course everybody is enjoying this wondrous economic recovery right?

Maybe if ya work for the Feral government.

There is absolutely no incentive to work hard or do a good job in government employ, and yet we continue to idiotically pay for ever more and more of it while us and or many of our friends and neighbors suffer.

One of the most insultingly stupid things I've ever been told (and it was by that same SBA pustule) was that they just have to be paid that well, because they work in D.C., and well it's expensive to live and commute there. When I pointed out that that was a direct reflection of their all being over paid to begin with, and that there were simply way too many of them to start, he honestly couldn't grasp the corollary. When I asked him WTF the unfortunate people that weren't working for the Ferals were supposed to do, since they most definitely weren't making what this idiot made, he sincerely suggested that they would have to find a cheaper place to live. :cross:
I guess the guy that details his BMW should commute from West Virginia.

There just ain't enough beer in all the world to make that sound right, no matter how hard I drink.

Ya see, this is why I don't leave the house much anymore. It's everywhere.

 

[TheCADJockey]

My boss will bust out audible farts after lunch and act like it didn't happen.

 

[hopfool]

you shoulda seen me in the bar (or just in public) 10 years ago. hahahaa!!!

we have this guy that has to have his nose in everyone's business. since our plant moved to a new building in a different town, I've lost work space. this butthole is all worried about another coworker moving into the spot next to me and trying to tell me how I need to rearrange my area so this other guy has room to store the knuckle jig. butthole's afraid it's gonna end up in his end of the shop. he's also worried about when I go on lunch, even though it affects NO ONE in the shop when any of us go on lunch. floccin' annoying.

One of my past businesses was a Commercial Construction company, and we had a contract to build out new offices for Ryland Homes mortgage division I think it was. Each floor was sub-divided into a giant ring of identical Class 'A' drone cells, and the bank's project manager was emphatic that they must all be exactly the same identical size. As luck would have it two of the corner offices ended up with 3/8 of an inch more space in one dimension... across something like 240+ feet of offices along just one side of the building. We actually had to laminate an additional layer of specially sourced ('cuz nobody was stocking 3/8" thick sheet rock) material to the wall to make the 3/8" disappear. I thought it was all just a seriously sick and retarded joke until the actual occupants showed up, and literally more than a dozen of them immediately went to crawling around the empty spaces with tape measures to make sure that they either got the biggest one, or that nobody elses was bigger. :cross:

Also owned a cabinet and fabricating shop. The surest way in the world to turn my cabinet makers' and metal fabricators' world upside down was to try and move something in "their" shop. Just the mention of a new piece of equipment had everybody streaming in and out of my office for weeks (some wanted it closer, some couldn't get it far enough away from them, etc.) and this was after a team meeting where they all supposedly decided that we needed this gear. They were all great workers that did fantastic work, and I did what I could to accommodate everybody, but it always used to amuse me just how territorial they got anytime somebody threatened "their" space.

 

[Kee]

Now take a look at the drones that "We the People" pay to support and provide us with limitless torment. I have yet to witness a single instance of public teat sucking, er... government employment, where there was any kind of leadership at all. The only emphasis that they seem to share is to not make waves or attract attention to themselves (and by extension their supervisors), while all continue what is most important of all to them... keeping their typically useless jobs.

As a taxpayer I would have to say that nearly every government employee that we pay annoys the crap out of me. From the power tripping, pre-pubescent, half idiot local police, who seem to have completely forgotten that whole "protect and serve" thing, to the crooked, 'roid raging, power tripping HLS criminal that I witnessed selling expensive gear that we paid for to a local gun shop owner. From the "talk to the hand" beotches at the Vital Records office who threatened to put my request for a Birth Certificate copy back on the bottom of their pile if I didn't just sit down and shut up (I asked once after a two hour wait how much longer they thought it might be... while they were all taking turns doing their nails and eating at their desks while BS'ing about everything under the sun), to the County roads crew that used to sit down the street from my house and play cards in their truck for half the day... every day, and to their supervisor who couldn't have cared less because "they always mange to finish everything that they are supposed to do". I guess the idea of firing half of their unnecessary azzes would never occur to anyone.

[ I tried to report the HLS criminal to their IG but they refused to even take my complaint. It was filed in writing (per their requirements) and after three attempts they never responded and refused to discuss any of it over the phone. I was also not allowed to visit their secret and secure facility in person (again, remember, these anus leakage puddles work for us). Then I filed the same complaint with Mr. Holder's office, since the HLS IG wasn't doing their job at all. Six months of the same kind of BS later their "investigator" finally sent me a letter stating that they could find nothing wrong. I insisted on meeting the idiot in person again and he informed me that when he asked the HLS (thief) if he had done what I claimed... he said no... so investigation concluded. I think gobsmacked best describes my state upon being told that. We had met in a public library, and when I took issue with his idiocy he very condescendingly "e'splained" to me in his best Ebonics, that he was "a investigator, not a detective". I walked ten steps to the reference section and took down the Oxford Unabridged, looked up "investigator" for him, placed a bookmark, and then looked up "detective" for him. Remarkably, an "investigator" is one who detects, and a "detective" is one who investigates. This inarticulate maroon was on-line, looking at $400,000 houses near Philly when I arrived, and he left driving a brand new 500 series Mercedes, and that ain't no lie or exaggeration in the least. He also admitted to having kids by three different women, none of which he was married to, so I guess that explains how he could afford the house and car(s) (he also had a new Camry... with the gold trim package, that he was driving the first time that we met). His credentials BTW... six years in the Navy... as a cook. Somehow managed to make E-5 in just those six years... impressive.
NOT!]

Met an English major with zero business background who worked for the SBA. He admitted that his duties amounted to printing out a copy of a report, when requested by his likewise useless supervisor, that was wholly promulgated by a new software package. There were eight useless tits on a bore hog just like him in his office. The reports were nothing more than a synopsis of the utilization of SBA guarantees. Of course since lending guidelines for small businesses all tightened up after the mortgage melt down (one has nothing at all to do with the other, but that's where all of the liquidity went) his department, by his own admission, didn't even have enough to keep just one of them busy. His pay and benefit package BTW, like the rest of the Ferals in and around DC, averages almost $140,000 a year. When I suggested that we should fire all of them, since there wasn't any reason to have them in the first place, he very immediately and sincerely responded that we couldn't of course, but beside that, that when the economy recovered we would need them once again. Imagine that... first of all we never "needed" any of the crap that they supposedly do anyway. Secondly, where else in the world can you get a job and sit around doing nothing because someone might need you sometime in the future??? And of course everybody is enjoying this wondrous economic recovery right?

Maybe if ya work for the Feral government.

There is absolutely no incentive to work hard or do a good job in government employ, and yet we continue to idiotically pay for ever more and more of it while us and or many of our friends and neighbors suffer.

One of the most insultingly stupid things I've ever been told (and it was by that same SBA pustule) was that they just have to be paid that well, because they work in D.C., and well it's expensive to live and commute there. When I pointed out that that was a direct reflection of their all being over paid to begin with, and that there were simply way too many of them to start, he honestly couldn't grasp the corollary. When I asked him WTF the unfortunate people that weren't working for the Ferals were supposed to do, since they most definitely weren't making what this idiot made, he sincerely suggested that they would have to find a cheaper place to live. :cross:
I guess the guy that details his BMW should commute from West Virginia.

There just ain't enough beer in all the world to make that sound right, no matter how hard I drink.

Ya see, this is why I don't leave the house much anymore. It's everywhere.

I've dealt with more than my share of bureaucratic ineptitude. The thousands of dollars it has cost me is not as bad as the frustration of being in a Catch-22 situation (I'll spare the details).

There are plenty of hard working government employees, however. I would not paint with as broad a brush. And not all jobs pay those six figure salaries.

BTW, the reference to Ebonics could be misconstrued. I know that all government employees annoy you, it's just that so many people use it as a code word.

 

[NAVYSQURL]

Commercial radio station listeners in a cubicle farm!!!! The same damn songs every other song!!! Between this and flourescent lighting do you wonder why work place violence is on the rise??? LOL

 

[fuzzy2133]

Commercial radio station listeners in a cubicle farm!!!! The same damn songs every other song!!! Between this and flourescent lighting do you wonder why work place violence is on the rise??? LOL

You would think with over 1,000 songs any radio station could make a playlist that would not repeat in less than 4 hours...

 

[DrunkleJon]

Secondly, where else in the world can you get a job and sit around doing nothing because someone might need you sometime in the future??? And of course everybody is enjoying this wondrous economic recovery right?

Not to start an argument, or maybe that is my reasoning. I dont know. Kinda fried in mental capacity now.

Firefighters, military grunts and police are technically working and 'on call' for when they are needed. Does it incense you that firefighters get paid to sleep, eat, etc?

And for government workers, there is a tradeoff. Contractors cost far more money, but are easier to let go. Government employees get a kind of tenure and take quite a bit of work to get rid of.

 

[Garybeer]

The woman who works an 8 to 5 shift with a 1 hour lunch. Takes her lunch at 3, comes back at 4, leaves at 5. Don't know why, but this bugs me to no end and her lunch time has no effect on my job whatsoever.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I'll bet she's picking her kids up from school!

 

[drainbamage]

Not to start an argument, or maybe that is my reasoning. I dont know. Kinda fried in mental capacity now.

Firefighters, military grunts and police are technically working and 'on call' for when they are needed. Does it incense you that firefighters get paid to sleep, eat, etc?

And for government workers, there is a tradeoff. Contractors cost far more money, but are easier to let go. Government employees get a kind of tenure and take quite a bit of work to get rid of.

I've worked for federal and state government for the last 5 years (after starting off in private industry). I can speak to both sides.

On one hand, yes, there is very little accountability in a lot of cases. I could walk into my boss's office right now and call him a dumb SOB and probably not get much more than a talking-to. Blowing the whistle on some sort of abuse of power or questioning the decisions of upper management are more likely to get you in trouble than actually doing something wrong yourself. Getting fired takes a lot.

On the other hand, the pay (and really even the benefits) aren't as great as a many outsiders think, at least not at the state level. I make about 2/3-3/4 of a comparable private industry salary for someone at my experience level. COLAs were non-existent for about 7 years, we're susceptible to furloughs when the powers that be can't get the budget straight, and a lot of people work 2 jobs to keep up. With that kind of environment, most of the workers worth a damn get recruited by consultants, leaving behind the people who either can't do any better, or who really care about what they do but don't ask for any recognition. They are there, but when they're doing their jobs right, the public doesn't notice. As soon as a screw-up happens, the "my tax dollars pay for this?!" hand-wringing starts.

 

[forstmeister]

I've worked for federal and state government for the last 5 years (after starting off in private industry). I can speak to both sides.

On one hand, yes, there is very little accountability in a lot of cases. I could walk into my boss's office right now and call him a dumb SOB and probably not get much more than a talking-to. Blowing the whistle on some sort of abuse of power or questioning the decisions of upper management are more likely to get you in trouble than actually doing something wrong yourself. Getting fired takes a lot.

On the other hand, the pay (and really even the benefits) aren't as great as a many outsiders think, at least not at the state level. I make about 2/3-3/4 of a comparable private industry salary for someone at my experience level. COLAs were non-existent for about 7 years, we're susceptible to furloughs when the powers that be can't get the budget straight, and a lot of people work 2 jobs to keep up. With that kind of environment, most of the workers worth a damn get recruited by consultants, leaving behind the people who either can't do any better, or who really care about what they do but don't ask for any recognition. They are there, but when they're doing their jobs right, the public doesn't notice. As soon as a screw-up happens, the "my tax dollars pay for this?!" hand-wringing starts.

I'm lower on the totem pole it seems as I work for municipal government. People love to piss and moan about where their tax dollars go without even knowing what their taxes actually fund.

People love to complain about laziness but nobody thanks me when I've been at work for 18 hours plowing their damn streets so they can get to work in the morning. Or when I have to work rotating 12-hour days after a storm blows through and 200 trees are on the ground.

 

[hopfool]

I've dealt with more than my share of bureaucratic ineptitude. The thousands of dollars it has cost me is not as bad as the frustration of being in a Catch-22 situation (I'll spare the details).

There are plenty of hard working government employees, however. I would not paint with as broad a brush. And not all jobs pay those six figure salaries.

BTW, the reference to Ebonics could be misconstrued. I know that all government employees annoy you, it's just that so many people use it as a code word.

Your interpretation of the word "plenty" and mine in this regard don't appear compatible. "Plenty" to me would mean enough to fill the demand, and the demand IMNSHO should be that 100% of those on the public teat be hard working. You seem to be suggesting that the very presence of any at all make up for the ubiquitous slackers and under-performers. As with their political whore bosses, I feel that our tendency to accept less has only set us up for continually receiving just that, and in ever increasing frequency. The bar continues to be lowered while their pay never takes a hit. During the latest "Great Depression" everyone in America was being told to tighten their belts, spend what little you have (a la Paul Krugman I believe it was, one of the President's favorite "professional economists"... and a fellow big prize winner ta boot), and learn to more with less. All the while the government kept hiring and spending and the closest they ever got to acting responsibly was to temporarily freeze what were already inflated wages. Obviously there are exceptions, and I'm particularly aggrieved by the Ferals, but let's face it, government employees on the whole represent the an entirely separate "special" class, and when I say "class" I mean as in possessing none, and when I say "special", well you get my drift.
Put another way, there was never, nor likely will there ever, be an example given where any government employee will be offered as a model of efficiency or good value for our labor dollars... unless we're talking about killing brown and or yellow skinned people in countries where we have no business being, in which case we are without peer.

As for my referencing the inarticulate Feral as speaking in Ebonics, there was no code, but what would it matter either way? The man was simply and excessively inarticulate, in a manner that was completely consistent with all of the characteristics of that particular vernacular. The idea that we should employ any people who suffer such a terribly difficult time forming the words that make up our language is just one more slight that we have grown accustomed to accepting. To what end and for what purpose I am at a loss to understand or explain, but I do know that it has helped expand the usage of such bastardized speech to a point where it is not by any stretch the sole property of any one ethnic or socio-economic group. Ever listen to an Eminem cut?

I made no specific correlation of trait to any particular ethnicity if that is what you are no doubt alluding too. The man was a borderline dolt. Being one particular skin color or another wouldn't change a thing, he'd have just been a White, or Brown, or Black, or Yellow dolt, "axing" me questions and apparently unable to pronounce the "th" sound. Do you have a less codey way of conveying that information? Sorry but I felt it was relevant. The idea of hiring someone of such a limited communicative skill set to perform a job function where the ability to speak English is rather perfunctory struck me as idiotic. I would say the same applies to English teachers in our public school systems, but that ship has already sailed, and as mentioned elsewhere in these comments. attempting to get rid of any government employee borders on the impossible.

As for my reference to the six figure salaries, in the case of the SBA employee, as well as the AG's office employee, both were supplied by the offending individuals themselves, BUT... roughly seven years ago it was reported that the average Feral employee in the Baltimore-Washington metro area received over $138,000 per year in pay and benefits. That again was the average. I'll grant that since D.C. is the giant tit, there are certainly more bureau heads and department supervisors represented in that number, but given the pathetic quality of service that we receive I would still suggest that that is still way too much. The attraction to government employ used to be security. Okay, I'm fine with that if I have to be (even though it subverts any and all incentive for anyone to actually do a better job), but it also carried with it the understanding that it was not a place that was ever going to compete with the private sector in terms of remuneration. That is obviously no longer true. They are eating their cake, and ours, while having it too.

What annoys me is not simply an idea or an attitude, it is the sad truth of the current state of affairs as I have experienced them. Say what you will, I'm just repeating the facts of what I have seen. The good exceptions have just become entirely too rare to continue trying to paint the whole with a happier colored brush... and no that wasn't code for anything.

 

[Kee]

Your interpretation of the word "plenty" and mine in this regard don't appear compatible. "Plenty" to me would mean enough to fill the demand, and the demand IMNSHO should be that 100% of those on the public teat be hard working. You seem to be suggesting that the very presence of any at all make up for the ubiquitous slackers and under-performers. As with their political whore bosses, I feel that our tendency to accept less has only set us up for continually receiving just that, and in ever increasing frequency. The bar continues to be lowered while their pay never takes a hit. During the latest "Great Depression" everyone in America was being told to tighten their belts, spend what little you have (a la Paul Krugman I believe it was, one of the President's favorite "professional economists"... and a fellow big prize winner ta boot), and learn to more with less. All the while the government kept hiring and spending and the closest they ever got to acting responsibly was to temporarily freeze what were already inflated wages. Obviously there are exceptions, and I'm particularly aggrieved by the Ferals, but let's face it, government employees on the whole represent the an entirely separate "special" class, and when I say "class" I mean as in possessing none, and when I say "special", well you get my drift.
Put another way, there was never, nor likely will there ever, be an example given where any government employee will be offered as a model of efficiency or good value for our labor dollars... unless we're talking about killing brown and or yellow skinned people in countries where we have no business being, in which case we are without peer.

As for my referencing the inarticulate Feral as speaking in Ebonics, there was no code, but what would it matter either way? The man was simply and excessively inarticulate, in a manner that was completely consistent with all of the characteristics of that particular vernacular. The idea that we should employ any people who suffer such a terribly difficult time forming the words that make up our language is just one more slight that we have grown accustomed to accepting. To what end and for what purpose I am at a loss to understand or explain, but I do know that it has helped expand the usage of such bastardized speech to a point where it is not by any stretch the sole property of any one ethnic or socio-economic group. Ever listen to an Eminem cut?

I made no specific correlation of trait to any particular ethnicity if that is what you are no doubt alluding too. The man was a borderline dolt. Being one particular skin color or another wouldn't change a thing, he'd have just been a White, or Brown, or Black, or Yellow dolt, "axing" me questions and apparently unable to pronounce the "th" sound. Do you have a less codey way of conveying that information? Sorry but I felt it was relevant. The idea of hiring someone of such a limited communicative skill set to perform a job function where the ability to speak English is rather perfunctory struck me as idiotic. I would say the same applies to English teachers in our public school systems, but that ship has already sailed, and as mentioned elsewhere in these comments. attempting to get rid of any government employee borders on the impossible.

As for my reference to the six figure salaries, in the case of the SBA employee, as well as the AG's office employee, both were supplied by the offending individuals themselves, BUT... roughly seven years ago it was reported that the average Feral employee in the Baltimore-Washington metro area received over $138,000 per year in pay and benefits. That again was the average. I'll grant that since D.C. is the giant tit, there are certainly more bureau heads and department supervisors represented in that number, but given the pathetic quality of service that we receive I would still suggest that that is still way too much. The attraction to government employ used to be security. Okay, I'm fine with that if I have to be (even though it subverts any and all incentive for anyone to actually do a better job), but it also carried with it the understanding that it was not a place that was ever going to compete with the private sector in terms of remuneration. That is obviously no longer true. They are eating their cake, and ours, while having it too.

What annoys me is not simply an idea or an attitude, it is the sad truth of the current state of affairs as I have experienced them. Say what you will, I'm just repeating the facts of what I have seen. The good exceptions have just become entirely too rare to continue trying to paint the whole with a happier colored brush... and no that wasn't code for anything.

"Plenty" is a little vague, you are right. Thanks for clarifying your points, I agree with most of them.