Thin and flat beer question

[Frenchtom]

Hello - I used to brew great beer but then jobs, wife and kids got in the way for about 10 years. I am trying to get back into brewing but I am having horrible luck. I brew all grain recipes and the last 3 or 4 have the same common problem, the flavor is thin or weak. Its almost like drinking beer diluted with water. I also have a problem with carbonation, the beer has a tremendous amount on the first pour and then once the foam settles, the beer in the glass is flat as well as the rest of the beer in the keg. The kegs I use are mini kegs that are charged with CO2 cartridges. I carbonate naturally with corn sugar in the keg and then use the cartridge for dispensing pressure. I even experimented with releasing all of the natural pressure off of the mini keg and dispensing via gravity (no CO2 cartridge assist) but that did not work either. I always measure OG and get my target number or higher. Any idea what is going on? I ferment until the water lock slows to almost a stop with bubbles (2 weeks or so) then I put the beer into a carboy for about a week or so, then fill the mini kegs and wait 3 to 4 weeks to drink. I drink the kegs rather slowly so by the time I drink the last keg it has sat for 2 or 3 months since kegging with no noticeable improvement in body or carbonation. If anything, the foam is worse and so is the flatness in the last keg. I use less corn sugar than used for bottling but I cannot recall the amount right now. Any idea on what is going on? I think it might be my water and thought about trying some potassium metabisulphite in my next batch.

 

[billl]

It would probably be a good idea to separate these issues.

A really thin AG beer is generally either recipe or mash temp related. If you are using a "known" recipe, then I'd look at the mash temp. The higher the temp, the more "body" and malt profile you'll get. A VERY common problem is that the thermometer is off.

For carbonation, are you using a calculator? Are you leaving enough head room?

 

[Frenchtom]

Hi Bill, thanks for the response, I will try calibrating my thermometer to boiling water and compare against some other thermometers I have that I use for grilling. If memory serves me correctly, I aim for about 156 mash temp. When you say higher temperature, just how much higher? Five degrees, ten degrees?

For carbonation, I am not using a calculator and do not even know what you mean by this term. I assume its more than just a pocket calculator, you are referring to some kind of corn sugar schedule?

On head room, I leave about an inch, sometimes more, sometimes less...a lot less...like 2 or 3 inches for the last keg.

Tom

 

[WoodlandBrew]

156 should be good for body and head retention. I wouldn't go higher but like you said, check the thermometer against boiling water. Mash time can be a factor as well. Mashing for 90 minuets instead of 60 will produce a lighter need even at 156. The beta enzymes will continue to break down the long sugars even after starch to sugar conversion is complete. Do you mash out at 165-170? That can be important to denature the enzymes so that they don't break down the sugar further while you sparge. Also, consider adding a protine rest if you don't have one.

Here is a blog post on the issue:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/10/mash-temperature-and-thermometers.html

Next, kegs. The flatness issue you have toward the end of the key is just the nature of that type of keg. I don't drink beer very fast, and like you it's probably a couple of months before I polish off the last of any batch (I do, however, like to keep several different beers around). I considered getting that style kegging system until talking to my brother who has the same problem with it that you do. Reading online I couldn't find a solution besides drink it faster.

 

[Frenchtom]

Hi Woodland - just to verify...mashing for a longer amount of time would produce a thinner beer and sparging at lower than 170 would also lean towards a thinner beer? That seems counter-intuitive but if true would explain my problems. I tend to mash longer under the impression that "more is better" and on sparging I never took that temperature very seriously, I always considered the mash stage as much more critical. Have I interpreted correctly? Thanks!

 

[iambeer]

You might also want to add extra grain. Lower your projected efficiency by 10% and see how it goes. Think about it. Better too strong than too thin. If it's too strong, rejoice.

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Yes, I think you have it right. Longer mash time makes more simple sugars. Raising the temperature to 170 before you sparge, or letting the sparge water sit in the mash tun for 15-20 minutes will denature the enzymes so that the longer sugars are not broken down any further.

Take a look at figure 6 here:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

 

[Frenchtom]

Hi guys - I wrote this message e while back and have since brewed an american amber ale. I did not get the thin, watery results I had been getting. It is very rich and full bodied. However, the carbonation is still way off. Its much better than before. I used to get a tremendous amount of carbonation when I opened my beer that would quickly turn to no carbonation. Now I am getting weak carbonation that stays weak throughout the entire drink.

My corn sugar is about 5 - 10 years old. Is is possible that my old corn sugar is the culprit?

If I am not mistaken, I added 1 cup of corn sugar to my 5 gallon batch. I also added the corn sugar at the two week mark or about 4 days after bubbling stopped.

Thanks,

Frenchtom

 

[billl]

Corn sugar shouldn't go bad, but it does absorb smells and flavors. For the price, I would just buy a new bag of sugar.

1 cup of sugar should get you a pretty highly carbonated beer . Are you adding it to the bottling bucket/keg immediately before packaging? Are you dissolving it in hot water or just trying to stir it into room temp beer?

 

[Frenchtom]

Hi Bill - I add the sugar immediately before bottling the beer after it has been dissolved in hot water. I also let the water cool to room temperature before adding it in.