American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[Dgallo]

Thanks , this is great advice. I always have trouble evaluating hops by smell but this is something I'm going to do more of.
Cheers!

I def suggest smelling the hops before using. The best smelling stuff should be used in the dryhop. Anything dank, earthy or allium like, use hotside. Let the heat and fermentation convert the compounds to more desirable ones

 

[ihavenonickname]

Boil hops:
Columbus at 60, 20, 5 (60 of the 83 ibus)

Rate is based off true volume of wort/beer at the time the hops were added.

Whirlpool: 1:1 at 1oz/gal at 165*f
Columbus / Freestyle Motueka

DH: Roughly 1:1:1 at 2.25oz/gal @ 54*f
Columbus/Nectaron/Freestyle Motueka

Great breakdown, that’s a fantastic hopping scheme for DIPA

 

[ihavenonickname]

You’re definitely correct that the straight up modern ipa is practically 100% Pilsner. I’d def argue that North Park should be credited with that and the resurgence of a more drinkable and aggressive (though stil reserved) ipa.

I will say what I’m seeing now is that a lot of breweries are adding back some character malts keeping the srms (< 6.5-7 SRM) but keeping the IBUS .75/1.0 and the hopping rates as the original modern ipa. I think this small change is really going take off in the market, which is quite stale if you talk to anyone in the distro (my BIL is a beverage sales rep for beer and thc/herbal seltzers ). The reason I think you’ll start seeing more 10-20% Munich/Vienna/etc ipas because it’s going to bring back the nostalgia of the larger of the two American craft beer movements (late 90s - real early 2010s) and aligned with modern hopping techniques and juicy character all while being a drinkable beer

That’s an interesting idea for a trend, I could definately see it happening… but here in CA it is most definately not happening yet! By far the dominant WCIPA style is all base malt (usually w pilsner) super drinkable, dry, practically just hoppy lager - I mean those terms as adjectives, not categories.

But man WCIPA is constantly changing and has been since…. I don’t know 2010?

I’d be interested in getting a good history on who started the pils malt trend in SD. It may have been NPBC but I was there when they opened in 2016 and hop fu had a touch a crystal then. I know green cheek won a gabf medal with an all Pilsner WCIPA in 2018. I only remember that because he called it an “ipa without crystal”

Edit cross out

 

[BongoYodeler]

Meh, I don't necessarily follow trends, I just brew what I like to drink. Isn't that what this homebrewing hobby should be all about?

 

[ihavenonickname]

Meh, I don't necessarily follow trends, I just brew what I like to drink. Isn't that what this homebrewing hobby should be all about?

Oh ya brother for sure!! I could see how the talk about what is trendy is annoying. I just think it’s really interesting how it changes by region and what’s considered great beer now was not just a few years ago. And as a homebrewer whenever I drink something new and different that I’m blown away by I love trying to figure out how to do it.

 

[beervoid]

I've done a few all pilsner lighter westcoast ipa but they never really stand out for me and come across a bit one dimensional.

 

[Shenanigans]

I have 8 oz of Vic Secret and 3 or 4 oz each of Enigma and El Dorado I would like to use up.
I was thinking maybe they would work in this style.

Do you think they would make a good combination?

I could add some columbus on the hot side too or other hops.

 

[Dgallo]

I have 8 oz of Vic Secret and 3 or 4 oz each of Enigma and El Dorado I would like to use up.
I was thinking maybe they would work in this style.

Do you think they would make a good combination?

I could add some columbus on the hot side too or other hops.

I’d be wary of Vic secret as it tends to throw a lot of hop burn, but if managed well I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Enigma is a cool hop like earthy red berries, and should work find and el dorado is a good supporting hop

 

[Shenanigans]

I’d be wary of Vic secret as it tends to throw a lot of hop burn, but if managed well I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Enigma is a cool hop like earthy red berries, and should work find and el dorado is a good supporting hop

Thanks.
I put together a quick recipe below.
That would use up all my Enigma and El Dorado but I could add more Vic Secret if needed.
I'll try Diamond lager yeast as it drops like a rock when done, even without a cold crash, but I will of course crash before dry hopping to be sure to prevent the hop burn from Vic Secret. Maris Otter extra pale is like a British version of Pilsner.

 

[elproducto]

Recipe check - Going to use some of that Strata I just picked up. 23 L batch.
Took inspiration from @Dgallo recent DIPA recipe, and scaled it down to regular strength.

 

[Dgallo]

Brewing a true modern west tomorrow

Grainbill
100% - Pilsner malt
Targeted OG: 1.070
Targeted FG: 1.012
Targeted ABV: 7.6%

Yeast
US05

Hotside hops
Mosaic & Nelson
IBU: 65

Dryhop
Strata, Mosiac, Nelson

 

[ihavenonickname]

Very nice! I just brewed yesterday something similar. Pilsner to 1.059, 34/70, simcoe, citra, motueka, Nelson. First ipa I’ve made in a while!

 

[Broothru]

Brewing a true modern west tomorrow

Grainbill
100% - Pilsner malt
Targeted OG: 1.070
Targeted FG: 1.012
Targeted ABV: 7.6%

Yeast
US05

Hotside hops
Mosaic & Nelson
IBU: 65

Dryhop
Strata, Mosiac, Nelson

With the exception of your dry hop (and the substitution of Andechs liquid yeast for US-O5), that’s exactly what I’ve got planned for brewing ‘soon.’ I recently watched a video of the brewers at Creek Park strongly advocating the use of an Andechs strain over Chico for WCIPAs.

Because of equipment issues, I almost never dry hop, but rather use DH charges in the whirlpool. Not the same, but similar outcomes in a capped unitank. I can DH with pressurized yeast brink through the conical dump valve, but it’s a messy hassle.

Let me know how yours comes out.

 

[Bassman2003]

Recipe check - Going to use some of that Strata I just picked up. 23 L batch.
Took inspiration from @Dgallo recent DIPA recipe, and scaled it down to regular strength.

View attachment 871363

Looks cool. As a side note, I see you added a decent amount of Epsom salt in your water. I am trying to decide about the use of Epsom salt in my brewing. It seems to be an ingredient where it sounds like it is needed but does anybody notice something real if it is used? Positive or negative?

After years of using filtered tap water, I switched to RO and like it. So the Epsom (adding Mg ) is the only question mark I have from the switch.

 

[Bassman2003]

With the exception of your dry hop (and the substitution of Andechs liquid yeast for US-O5), that’s exactly what I’ve got planned for brewing ‘soon.’ I recently watched a video of the brewers at Creek Park strongly advocating the use of an Andechs strain over Chico for WCIPAs.

Because of equipment issues, I almost never dry hop, but rather use DH charges in the whirlpool. Not the same, but similar outcomes in a capped unitank. I can DH with pressurized yeast brink through the conical dump valve, but it’s a messy hassle.

Let me know how yours comes out.

That would be WLP835 right? I assume this would be at ale temps not lager temps?

 

[Broothru]

Looks cool. As a side note, I see you added a decent amount of Epsom salt in your water. I am trying to decide about the use of Epsom salt in my brewing. It seems to be an ingredient where it sounds like it is needed but does anybody notice something real if it is used? Positive or negative?

After years of using filtered tap water, I switched to RO and like it. So the Epsom (adding Mg ) is the only question mark I have from the switch.

Most brewing water tables hint to the desirable inclusion of some Mg, maybe 15 ppm? Not sure what it adds, but I try to use for whatever it is that the experts find useful. It also helps to balance SO4 levels without going crazy with gypsum (and subsequent Ca) additions. Just another tool in the toolbox.

 

[Broothru]

That would be WLP835 right? I assume this would be at ale temps not lager temps?

Exactly. I have two Pure Pitches of WLP-835x that are approaching Best Used By dates, and the US-05 will still be good for years.

 

[Dgallo]

Looks cool. As a side note, I see you added a decent amount of Epsom salt in your water. I am trying to decide about the use of Epsom salt in my brewing. It seems to be an ingredient where it sounds like it is needed but does anybody notice something real if it is used? Positive or negative?

After years of using filtered tap water, I switched to RO and like it. So the Epsom (adding Mg ) is the only question mark I have from the switch.

Epsom salt adds so4 and mg. It’s a good option for raising your so4 numbers without increasing your Ca values, as gypsum will quickly increase ca while your trying to add so4.

That said be careful of adding too much mg. I will not go above 20 ppm with mg personally. I am sensitive to it and too me elevated mg taste like if you chew acetaminophen. That sour, tangy astringency.

If you haven’t read the Bru’n water introduction page that discusses water chemistry basics with some advanced info, I highly suggest you do. I strongly feel knowing about water is very important in producing great beer

 

[Broothru]

That would be WLP835 right? I assume this would be at ale temps not lager temps?

White Labs shows optimum temperature for 835x as 50F-54F, but Creek Park brewers said they pitched at around 67F and kept it there for the duration {note: partially pressurized @ <5 psi early, then spunded after krausening @ 15 psig}. 34/70 does alright at those pressures and temperatures, but I'm not sure about 835x. Guess I'm about to find out, but the pros say it works, and they've won more awards at big events than I ever will.

In fairness, the Creek Park brewers didn't specifically name WLP-835x (there are allegedly others: Imperial L26, Wyeast 2105-PC {haven't released it in three years}, Propagation Labs MIP-620 {allegedly the yeast Coors uses}, and a few others I've not used, according to a web search.

I've used the 2105-PC and L26 in the past with good results, but the only 2105 I've seen in recent memory are the frozen samples in my freezer. L26 is, I think, readily available, but my default is WLP-835x, probably due to inertia on my part, and the fact that I stock up on the White Labs whenever it comes out of the Vault.

I'm actually quite a fan boi for Andechs, using (but mostly re-using) it in a wide variety of German lagers, along with 860 Augustiner.

 

[Bassman2003]

Epsom salt adds so4 and mg. It’s a good option for raising your so4 numbers without increasing your Ca values, as gypsum will quickly increase ca while your trying to add so4.

That said be careful of adding too much mg. I will not go above 20 ppm with mg personally. I am sensitive to it and too me elevated mg taste like if you chew acetaminophen. That sour, tangy astringency.

If you haven’t read the Bru’n water introduction page that discusses water chemistry basics with some advanced info, I highly suggest you do. I strongly feel knowing about water is very important in producing great beer

Thanks. I was speaking more to Epsom itself. It is rather nasty and I wonder if a 'with or without side by side' would yield anything better or worse between the two examples? Epsom seems like the most convenient brewer's source of Mg. (although yeast nutrient has Mg). I know the PPM is small am but always on the lookout for dogma. It is one of those areas where probably nobody has a taste example and the odds of a poor outcome (too much) are elevated.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks. I was speaking more to Epsom itself. It is rather nasty and I wonder if a 'with or without side by side' would yield anything better or worse between the two examples? Epsom seems like the only brewer's source of Mg. I know the PPM is small am but always on the lookout for dogma. It is one of those areas where probably nobody has a taste example and the odds of a poor outcome (too much) are elevated.

I don’t think brewers are targeting mg. It’s more so a by product of hitting other number (a small amount is good for yeast health)

I stated in my first post, people use epson salt (mgso4) mainly to be able to up the so4 numbers but keep their calcium in check because the other common water addition used to increase the so4 is gypsum which is caso4 and it quickly ups your calcium especially if your use CaCl to up your chloride number.

Water chemistry and building your profiles will always be a balance of what you are targeting and how you can hit those numbers with the additives you have. Many claim that mg ppm under 30 are undetectable. I personally try to stay at 20 or less (IPAs are the only beer for me this comes into play, I don’t add epsom to any other profile as I don’t need higher so4 numbers). If you can hit your numbers without epsom salt, I personally would

 

[Broothru]

I stated in my first post, people use epson salt (mgso4) mainly to be able to up the so4 numbers but keep their calcium in check …

Actually, I mainly use MgSO4 as a post-brew session soak in a hot tub to ease my aching bones. You’ll learn about this palliative use in a few years as you ‘mature.’

 

[Dgallo]

Actually, I mainly use MgSO4 as a post-brew session soak in a hot tub to ease my aching bones. You’ll learn about this palliative use in a few years as you ‘mature.’

You knew I meant in the context of brewing lol

 

[InspectorJon]

I stated in my first post, people use epson salt (mgso4) mainly to be able to up the so4 numbers but keep their calcium in check because the other common water addition used to increase the so4 is gypsum which is caso4 and it quickly ups your calcium

For what it’s worth, the British brewers like much higher calcium content than the numbers we are used to seeing. 200-300 ppm isn’t uncommon and they are the ones that started this whole IPA thing.

 

[Dgallo]

For what it’s worth, the British brewers like much higher calcium content than the numbers we are used to seeing. 200-300 ppm isn’t uncommon and they are the ones that started this whole IPA thing.

that’s interesting. Is that historical data or is that what British brewers are currently doing? That said English IPAS aren’t very reminiscent of what American IPAs have evolved too, is the 200-300ppm of calcium what they are using for hazy’s or west coast IPAs?

I’d be very surprised to see big named ipa producer in the us being anywhere near 300. Most I’ve ever heard of anyone is like 140. High calcium can lead to astringency and causes clearing, as it makes for a less stable haze.

 

[InspectorJon]

I’d be very surprised to see big named ipa producer in the us being anywhere near 300. Most I’ve ever heard of anyone is like 140. High calcium can lead to astringency and causes clearing, as it makes for a less stable haze.

I may have over stated going up to 300 Calcium. 100-200 seems pretty normal though for British. As you stated it promotes clearing, which seems to be a good thing in the West Coast style. I feel like people in America are sometimes afraid to go over 50. As with many things in brewing there are a lot of variables. If one has water that starts high in Ca and low in Mg, Epsom Salt can be a useful addition to get the So4 up. If you start with really soft water you may not need it unless you are trying to up the Mg.

To be honest most of what I know about British brewing I have read over in the English Ales - Whats your favorite recipe? thread. Maybe @Northern_Brewer can weigh in on this question of what is a typical calcium level in British ale.

 

[beervoid]

that’s interesting. Is that historical data or is that what British brewers are currently doing? That said English IPAS aren’t very reminiscent of what American IPAs have evolved too, is the 200-300ppm of calcium what they are using for hazy’s or west coast IPAs?

I’d be very surprised to see big named ipa producer in the us being anywhere near 300. Most I’ve ever heard of anyone is like 140. High calcium can lead to astringency and causes clearing, as it makes for a less stable haze.

Alchemist

 

[Dgallo]

Alchemist

Can you share the reference? I hadn’t heard their calcium is that high. I saw a post from like 2015 on HBT and a guy sent a can of heady to ward to be analyzed and the finished beer only has 130 ppm of calcium or close to that.

When I just tried to look for references to their water, all I could find were articles about how alchemist has become leaders in the sustainability movement and do a lot to conserve and clean their waste water. If you have a reference, I’d love to take a look

 

[beervoid]

Can you share the reference? I hadn’t heard their calcium is that high. I saw a post from like 2015 on HBT and a guy sent a can of heady to ward to be analyzed and the finished beer only has 130 ppm of calcium or close to that.

When I just tried to look for references to their water, all I could find were articles about how alchemist has become leaders in the sustainability movement and do a lot to conserve and clean their waste water. If you have a reference, I’d love to take a look

The brewsheet for heady topper was leaked, it's probably somewhere in the heady topper thread. I believe the sulfates are in the range of 400-500
Going by the amount of sulfates they work with assuming most of it comes from calcium sulfate, and how much ca precipitates and get's used up by the yeast and if it's 130ca final it's likely that its 200+ starting.

 

[Dgallo]

The brewsheet for heady topper was leaked, it's probably somewhere in the heady topper thread. I believe the sulfates are in the range of 400-500
Going by the amount of sulfates they work with assuming most of it comes from calcium sulfate, and how much ca precipitates and get's used up by the yeast and if it's 130ca final it's likely that its 200+ starting.

interesting, I look through some of the heady threads on here see what I can find.

With water I never like to assume anything unless I can find the numbers of the source water. Tried to search Stowe, VT water report but can’t find any data sheets with the valuable ions for brewing