The Misunderstanding of the World's Best Beers

[iijakii]

Well, I'm just sayin', this is my observation. People just need their beers to be bigger and bolder all the time and don't appreciate the subtle qualities in a style like helles.

And you will likely never catch me on a horse.

Or we just like our IPAs a certain way. To me an IPA needs to be super dry and super bitter. Anything else is just lackluster. Similar to me for sours. The slightly tart ones are just a bit boring -- I want some puckering goodness. That has nothing to do with my overall taste -- just because I like bold IPAs and sours doesn't mean I require bold outlandish flavors in all regards. I love helles and other lagers. Pilsners are one of my favorite styles still. Thoughts on different beer styles can be independent.

How about this: I love both bbq meat and various tofu dishes.

 

[ECBrew]

If you are interested in the style, try it and make your own opinion. Noone really cares if you like it or not, other than you and maybe the guy that brewed it (probably not). It's beer! Drink it, form your own opinion, and move on. The beer community is far too concerned with what everyone else thinks. When I drink I tend to go for anything on the menu that I haven't had, regardless of what the general consensus is... when I find things that I like about certain beers I might work them into my own creations. Don't feed the hype machine, and never set an expectation based on others reviews because its unlikely to ever be that earth shattering.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I had a double IPA homebrew recently which the brewer claimed used 24oz of hops... for a 5 gallon batch. That's a pound and a half. Most of my homebrews use 2-5oz. There where more hops by weight in the recipe than specialty grains. Not sure if the guy's a Lupulin Shift victim, or just likes hops.

I'm not a hop head, but it was a damned good beer. I can only imagine how much that brew must have cost to make, though.

Well, that is pretty aggressive... That's 9# per barrel, which would be contrasted with Stone Ruination (2.5#/bbl) and Stone RuinTen (5#/barrel).

But honestly I've found that with IPA/DIPA, it's nearly impossible to overdo the flameout and dry hop additions. I posted recently about a collaboration brew I did with a buddy last year where we did a 1.037 OG session IPA, using a whole pound of hops in 10 gallons. Essentially hopping the beer more heavily than Ruination. The difference was that the ENTIRE pound was a flameout/whirlpool addition. No early bittering additions whatsoever in the recipe. It came out delicious!

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Well, that is pretty aggressive... That's 9# per barrel, which would be contrasted with Stone Ruination (2.5#/bbl) and Stone RuinTen (5#/barrel).

But honestly I've found that with IPA/DIPA, it's nearly impossible to overdo the flameout and dry hop additions. I posted recently about a collaboration brew I did with a buddy last year where we did a 1.037 OG session IPA, using a whole pound of hops in 10 gallons. Essentially hopping the beer more heavily than Ruination. The difference was that the ENTIRE pound was a flameout/whirlpool addition. No early bittering additions whatsoever in the recipe. It came out delicious!

If you have a plethora of home grown hops this is the best way to treat them since you cannot (unless you spend the money for lab testing) know the AA%. Using up some old pellet hops + 21oz of wet cascade hop cones in a black IPA, delicious (I think if I check my notes I had 28 total oz put in at 3 minutes and whirlpool). I would tell anyone thats tried IPAs and thought they were too sharply bitter, homebrew an IPA where 95% of the hops are added at less than 5 minutes, completely different beast.

 

[Psylocide]

Well, that is pretty aggressive... That's 9# per barrel, which would be contrasted with Stone Ruination (2.5#/bbl) and Stone RuinTen (5#/barrel).

But honestly I've found that with IPA/DIPA, it's nearly impossible to overdo the flameout and dry hop additions. I posted recently about a collaboration brew I did with a buddy last year where we did a 1.037 OG session IPA, using a whole pound of hops in 10 gallons. Essentially hopping the beer more heavily than Ruination. The difference was that the ENTIRE pound was a flameout/whirlpool addition. No early bittering additions whatsoever in the recipe. It came out delicious!

I'll take one of those. What did it finish at?

 

[AK7007]

There's a ton of nonsense in this thread. Douple IPAs ruin your palate?

I think people were just trying to say in the very short term, if you drink a really good DIPA before a mild beer, the mild one is going to seem very bland and you may have trouble picking out the nuances of that mild beer. That's not nonsense or controversial.

As an extension though, people obviously do "warm up" to certain beers over time. If you give a really good DIPA to somebody who only drinks angry orchard, they likely are not going to enjoy it as much as a guy like me who spends his nights inhaling deeply from a tulip glass of homebrew DIPA. That doesn't mean that the angry orchard guy won't in the future like the DIPAs.

 

[worlddivides]

I think people were just trying to say in the very short term, if you drink a really good DIPA before a mild beer, the mild one is going to seem very bland and you may have trouble picking out the nuances of that mild beer. That's not nonsense or controversial.

That is very true, but it's also kind of a "duh" statement. And if that is what the previous posters meant, I kind of wonder why the statement was made at all. It seemed to be looking down on double IPAs with excessive hop usage (as "unbalanced" and destroying your palate). With my previous analogy, if you eat a moderately spicy burrito and then immediately try to eat some very delicate sushi, the spiciness of the burrito will, of course, interfere with the flavor of the fish, the rice, and so on. But that doesn't say anything negative against the burrito or the sushi. In fact, even if you're only eating sushi, traditionally you cleanse the palate in between different sushi types with pickled ginger. It's not unique to Japanese cuisine either. In the West, when tasting different wines, it has been traditional to cleanse one's palate when switching wines. I never see people who eat Mexican food being accused of destroying their palates with spiciness and not being able to appreciate more "delicate foods," but I have seen people claiming that "hopheads" can no longer drink any beer that isn't 10,000 IBUs and bitter enough to kill a mule (or some other hyperbole).

And in my case, I oftentimes DO drink a lager shortly after drinking a double IPA. I don't see a problem there.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'll take one of those. What did it finish at?

Not sure. This was a pair of beers that we did as collaborations. I brewed a DIPA on my system and he did the session IPA on his. The idea was that we'd have some commonality in grain bill and hop selection in the recipe and each serve them side by side. Since we both brew 10 gallons and keg, it's easy to swap half-batches.

Only problem is that I almost never bother to measure FG (I've got my brewing down to the point where I only do it with finicky yeast like saison), and I never asked him the FG. He was using WLP029 and we mashed low (147F) and long (90 min), if that helps.

 

[beersk]

Or we just like our IPAs a certain way. To me an IPA needs to be super dry and super bitter. Anything else is just lackluster. Similar to me for sours. The slightly tart ones are just a bit boring -- I want some puckering goodness. That has nothing to do with my overall taste -- just because I like bold IPAs and sours doesn't mean I require bold outlandish flavors in all regards. I love helles and other lagers. Pilsners are one of my favorite styles still. Thoughts on different beer styles can be independent.

How about this: I love both bbq meat and various tofu dishes.

Well, I certainly am sorry I offended you guys. I was only stating my observations. But I guess I shouldn't have chimed in as it doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.
I guess I get annoyed that the most popular beers, and most places' taplists, have nothing but those big and bold beers that are 7+% abv. Would these places rather have you stay for 1 pint or 3?

 

[Kharnynb]

My only real issue with the rating sites is that they tend to be slanted towards american beers, both in ratings as well as content.

I totally believe that there is a lot of good beer being made in US breweries, but only 2 european beers in the top 20 best beers on beeradvocate.com, that's probally a rather heavy bias.

 

[iijakii]

Well, I certainly am sorry I offended you guys. I was only stating my observations. But I guess I shouldn't have chimed in as it doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.
I guess I get annoyed that the most popular beers, and most places' taplists, have nothing but those big and bold beers that are 7+% abv. Would these places rather have you stay for 1 pint or 3?

I certainly agree with that -- visit Oregon some time. 40 beers on tap? 35 are IPA-variants. And only 5 of them are even good ones.

 

[iijakii]

My only real issue with the rating sites is that they tend to be slanted towards american beers, both in ratings as well as content.

I totally believe that there is a lot of good beer being made in US breweries, but only 2 european beers in the top 20 best beers on beeradvocate.com, that's probally a rather heavy bias.

Well they're US-based English sites

 

[Kharnynb]

I didn't say it wasn't logical, it's just annoying for us old-country ppl....

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I didn't say it wasn't logical, it's just annoying for us old-country ppl....

Well to be fair its probably sample bias. The beers that get the most number of ratings will generally be American beers since we are decandent capitalist pigs and we all have smart phones and think our opinions matter.

In most of the country we probably get less than 1% of the delicious beers you guys get in the old-world. The gist of the European beers we do get are the well known Belgian/German beers with a smattering of UK and French beers.

 

[iijakii]

Do you think on ZuhauseBrau.de they're complaining that there's only highly rated pilsners and hefes?

"Mein Gott! Wo ist der IPA? Es ist sehr shmeckt! Kalifornia IPA mein leiblings brau!"

 

[TheMadKing]

I certainly agree with that -- visit Oregon some time. 40 beers on tap? 35 are IPA-variants. And only 5 of them are even good ones.

Only 40? You must not have gone to a good enough taphouse for the Portland/Seattle Regions :cross: There used to be a bar in the center of my college campus that kept 100 beers on tap!

 

[wmilas]

I wasn't going to post cause I figured one more opinion.. blah.. But the more I thought about it, the more I think I have to post this to get it off my chest.

Balance does matter in respect to the specific style. People, and people's palates drift towards styles they like. For instance I enjoy malty Germans and estery Belgians. I enjoy a good sour every now and then. RiS are good if they accentuate the chocolate and other flavors and don't bury them in bitterness.

As you can tell, I'm not a APA/IPA/DIPA fan. That doesn't mean I don't make a orange/coriander APA for summer time. (The Cascades Orange recipe on this site is fantastic!). But it does mean I drift more towards the styles I like.

I'm blessed that the price of the beer doesn't matter much to me, and I have friends that are very active traders. I've tried thousands of commercial beers. I've learned, THAT FOR ME, the best ones are always in the styles I like.

For instance, one of my top 5 beers in the world is Ayinger Celebrator Doppel. Its perfectly balanced for the style, and has notes of maltiness that are sublime. I've tried to replicate it myself and I can't. Its one of the few commercial beers that I stock regularly.

Whats the point of all this? My point is that the best beers in the world for you will naturally gravitate towards the styles you enjoy. For me, not a single DIPA is in my top 10. Doesn't mean Heady Topper isn't a great beer... Its just not great for me.

And if it matters, I gave away a case of heady to my friends cause I thought they would enjoy it more than me

 

[Eugenio]

Hehe this remonds me of when I first tried Westvleteren 12, I almost lit candles to set the mood. One sip in and I realized I vastly prefer St. bernardus 12. But, its a cool bottle, and a cool story, not mention scarce, so now I have 2 bottles for the cellar. Happened again last month when i tried their blonde...quite inferior to the Orval one.

I now take ratings with a grain of salt.

 

[1977Brewer]

And if it matters, I gave away a case of heady to my friends cause I thought they would enjoy it more than me

It only matters because we aren't friends. Yet.

 

[drainbamage]

For instance, one of my top 5 beers in the world is Ayinger Celebrator Doppel. Its perfectly balanced for the style, and has notes of maltiness that are sublime. I've tried to replicate it myself and I can't. Its one of the few commercial beers that I stock regularly.

There's nothing wrong with that. Celebrator is a damn good beer.

 

[Kwitty]

It's all preference. There are people that swear by Budweiser. I can't stand it! But it doesn't make either of us right or wrong. It's all about taste. I love IPAs. However my taste in hops and malts and the "balance" of them is different than anyone else and can change by the day. Some days I want a shred your tongue hop bomb! Others I like a nice cream ale or Irish red and avoid the hops in favor of malty goodness. My personal favorite IPA is Dulachan from Lavery Brewing in Erie PA. It's local for me so it's fresh and kicks the a** of better known IPAs! But again, that's my opinion!

 

[madscientist451]

Everyone has different tastes, just because a bunch of beer drinkers go on beer advocate and vote something the best beer in the world doesn't mean that you will agree. And there is nothing wrong if you don't agree, again, how the beer tastes is a very individual thing. I find many commercial beers blah, boring, even undrinkable. Yet someone likes these beers enough to keep the commercial pipeline flowing.
Sorry no conclusion here, just pointless rambling...Cheers!