The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[jgarretson]

I pressed our league admin on why the season is 8 weeks long in both the fall and spring. Her response is that it is mandated by Colorado Youth Soccer. I did some quick math for her and said you realize my kids are allowed to practice officially for about 30% of the year. Do you think that's good? What if they spent 30% of the year doing math? Think we'd have any engineers? No response to that.
And how does charging these crazy registration fees drive participation?
Hence, we get Michael Bradley, Chris Wondolowski and Kyle Beckerman.
What is promising are the MLS academies. It's interesting to look at for example LA Galaxy's U14 academy team. All Hispanic save for one or two kids. The academy is free and they pick kids based on ability. What a concept. And the kids are amazing players.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Messi's Free Kick Goal From The Stands

 

[Talgrath]

This is Roy Hodgson's 3rd major tournament.
What makes you say they are changing coaches once every year or two?

Slight exaggeration perhaps, but not by much. If they fire Roy this year he would be sitting at 3 years and a few months, the previous coach (Capello) was the same, and they lasted relatively long. They haven't had a coach go to 4+ major competitions or last for more than one World Cup cycle (aka 4+ years) since Bobby Robson all the way back in 1990. They aren't quite as bad as Mexico, but stability at the coaching position is definitely not their thing.

 

[Grannyknot]

Slight exaggeration perhaps, but not by much. If they fire Roy this year he would be sitting at 3 years and a few months, the previous coach (Capello) was the same, and they lasted relatively long. They haven't had a coach go to 4+ major competitions or last for more than one World Cup cycle (aka 4+ years) since Bobby Robson all the way back in 1990. They aren't quite as bad as Mexico, but stability at the coaching position is definitely not their thing.

There is very little coaching stability in international soccer in general, not just England or Mexico. The US are an anomaly in that regard.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

There is very little coaching stability in international soccer in general, not just England or Mexico. The US are an anomaly in that regard.

Not really. Arena is the only coach to stay for 2 WC cycles. Klinsmann will likely be number 2. ANd it's fans are certianly more fickle as they've wanted Klinsmann fired for years.

 

[Grannyknot]

Not really. Arena is the only coach to stay for 2 WC cycles. Klinsmann will likely be number 2. ANd it's fans are certianly more fickle as they've wanted Klinsmann fired for years.

Did you just disagree with me and then reinforce my statement?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Not really disagreeing with you. But continuity on the national stage is relatively new for the US. In the 80s the US had 5 coached (including Gansler twice) in the 90s it was 4 coaches. Arena was the first one to break the one cycle trend. Bradley was on his way to it before his truly embarrassing failure vs Mexico (and Klinsmann telling Gulati he wanted to coach)

 

[Grannyknot]

I always forget that you are completely incapable of talking about soccer without having some sort of contrarian viewpoint or disagreement. The history of US soccer coaches is irrelevant to the context of the discussion.

Talgrath and I were talking about coaching stability in international soccer, which i don't think really exists anywhere, and said that the current US trend of keeping coaches around is an anomaly when compared to the rest of the world.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Well you have Jochim Low who's on his 3rd WC Cycle, Del Bosque who's on his 3rd WC cycle, I'm sure there are other examples. US is hardly an anomaly. The stability in the coaching job with the US is new. That was my point.

 

[jgarretson]

I don't think stability at the international level is important. The teams are together for such a relatively short period and the players can constantly change.
I honestly think it can sometimes make the team stale. Some players never get a look for whatever reason and you never know what gem might be uncovered.

 

[Talgrath]

I'd actually argue the opposite because they're together so little. If you fire your coach every 2 years or less you have little idea if they really were good or bad, they barely had any time to assess him. 2 seasons or so with a pro team is usually enough, you've seen the manager in probably somewhere around 80-100 matches, you should have a pretty good idea by that point. Now, have teams won shortly (relatively) after changing managers? Of course, but that doesn't mean it was the right decision.

 

[Qhrumphf]

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/06...BC Sports Soccer&utm_tags=srm[soccer,article]

Uhhh......really?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I read that and laughed. the ref's justification that it was deliberate and likened it to peeing on the side of the pitch was my favorite part.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Oh, I'm still laughing as well. Absolutely hilarious.

 

[Talgrath]

Well, in the ref's defense, we don't have video of the incident. Maybe he did it like this:

 

[Qhrumphf]

I mean, if an opposing player was on the ground, and he sat down on his face and farted, I can see getting sent off for that. But that would have been even funnier.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

WIth the UK voting to leave the EU and results looking like they will, wonder what that will do to getting players to the premier league. Last 2 big MLS moves to the EPL were Yedlin and Miazga who held EU pass ports (Latvian and Polish) so they could work anywhere in the EU. First I wonder if the UK will keep the same visa rules when it comes to passports. Second is what will be the new loop hole if they do close it? Third is will this impact the EPL?

 

[Qhrumphf]

WIth the UK voting to leave the EU and results looking like they will, wonder what that will do to getting players to the premier league. Last 2 big MLS moves to the EPL were Yedlin and Miazga who held EU pass ports (Latvian and Polish) so they could work anywhere in the EU. First I wonder if the UK will keep the same visa rules when it comes to passports. Second is what will be the new loop hole if they do close it? Third is will this impact the EPL?

As it currently stands, it'll have an impact on work permit rules. But from what I've read, a few rule changes on the FA's part would fix it. Some reports are saying the actual tangible impact will be negligible.

 

[Talgrath]

This is a pretty decent breakdown:

How Brexit Could Hurt US Players

That said, I mostly agree with Q, if the FA wants to continue to see great players play in England, they'll figure it out.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Can we say the US got CONCACAF'd if the refs weren't from CONCACAF?

 

[Talgrath]

That wasn't a great game for team USA...but I can't say it was terrible. The USMNT are done with the Copa America, having finished in 4th place out of 16 teams. A few observations.

We Got COMMEBOLED
That handball off of the keeper's failed clearance? 100% legit, and that phantom call of a foul on for doing something to the Colombia keeper was a terrible call.

Reminder: We Aren't There Yet
Fernando Fiore, the FS1 pre-game and half time commentator had a great little...for lack of a better term, rant on the FS1 pre-game before the show. Find a clip if you can, because it's spot on and poignant and he shuts up US Soccer's village idiot Alexi Lalas. Fiore basically points out that the USMNT is not a top team yet, and probably won't be in his lifetime or Lalas' and that the USA is not special in this regard. Just because we occasionally beat a top team doesn't mean we are one.

There's Not Much Any Keeper Could Do About That Goal
Some people were criticizing Tim Howard on the Colombia goal, but with as good as that ball in was, it's not his fault there. It's up to the defense and every other player in front of Howard to prevent Colombia from even getting in that position, and they failed.

The Old Guys Can't Keep Doing This
As good as Dempsey and Jones looked at the group stage of the tournament, they've been steadily fading as time has gone on outside of that group stage. It's unlikely that Jones or Dempsey can be or will be starters at the 2018 World Cup, but we don't really have any ready replacements; as it stands right now, nobody has Dempsey's touch on a free kick at the goal (his shot today? Damn near perfect) and nobody has the all around instincts and skill of Jones in the midfield, outside of maybe Michael Bradley (on a good day). The team that heads to the 2018 World Cup may be the least talented in a generation, and that's 100% on the failures of the development system from years ago.

Overall, It Was Okay
For the first time ever, the USMNT won their group in the Copa America; sure they only did it because Colombia took their foot off the gas against Costa Rica, but team USA won the group. The USMNT tied their best ever result in the Copa America too. Overall, this was a very successful tournament.

The Future Might See More of This
There are rumors and outright statements pointing towards the possibility of a combined North and South America Copa America; what, exactly, this would mean and how it would all shake out is yet to be seen, but pretty soon the USMNT might find itself regularly clashing with South American teams.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Agree with all of that. There were a number of good chances, either squandered or just unlucky (but that went both ways).

However, seems that Brexit may impact more than just players coming into the UK. Could impact UK players elsewhere. Notable example is Gareth Bale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...ow-gareth-bales-real-madrid-future-into-doub/

 

[Talgrath]

Well, it's worth noting that the reclassification shouldn't/doesn't happen until the UK is officially out, so Bale should be okay for at least a year or two, but it's definitely a problem; of course it's a problem that thousands of Brits who work in Europe will face at the same time, and they're much less likely for their employer to keep them. Makes me wonder if a few more Englishmen might not make the trip across the pond to the former colonies, the US and Canada have looser laws for talented people; guys who maybe can't get in to European clubs anymore might see MLS as an attractive option.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Well, the EU has basically said they want this process over as quickly as possible, so who knows what's going to happen. And as the article I linked said, the odds are far, far higher that Real Madrid unloads another non-EU player before unloading Bale and thus comply with their own league rules.

I guess the point is that I doubt many fully understand just how many consequences this will have just in the world of sports, let alone the world at large.

But if this goes the messy divorce route, which it sounds like it may, yeah, I could see greater interchange between players from the England and the Americas if transfers to the rest of Europe become too messy in financially unwieldy.

 

[Talgrath]

Very true, it will make things more difficult for UK players to move around, we'll see how messy or swift this "brexit" is but I think Bale should be fine in the near future, I doubt it will be faster than 1 year.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

There's Not Much Any Keeper Could Do About That Goal
Some people were criticizing Tim Howard on the Colombia goal, but with as good as that ball in was, it's not his fault there. It's up to the defense and every other player in front of Howard to prevent Colombia from even getting in that position, and they failed.

The Old Guys Can't Keep Doing This
As good as Dempsey and Jones looked at the group stage of the tournament, they've been steadily fading as time has gone on outside of that group stage. It's unlikely that Jones or Dempsey can be or will be starters at the 2018 World Cup, but we don't really have any ready replacements; as it stands right now, nobody has Dempsey's touch on a free kick at the goal (his shot today? Damn near perfect) and nobody has the all around instincts and skill of Jones in the midfield, outside of maybe Michael Bradley (on a good day). The team that heads to the 2018 World Cup may be the least talented in a generation, and that's 100% on the failures of the development system from years ago.

Overall, It Was Okay
For the first time ever, the USMNT won their group in the Copa America; sure they only did it because Colombia took their foot off the gas against Costa Rica, but team USA won the group. The USMNT tied their best ever result in the Copa America too. Overall, this was a very successful tournament.

I don't disagree with Howard and that goal. Similar to the Messi free kick there's nothing you can do. The fault for me on that play was Besler being way over. I don't think that cross happens with Brooks there or even with Fabian there. Losing those 2 stung.

I kind of agree about the old guys, but Jones was really strong that last game. Granted it was probably because he had a game off.

But we need guys in to replace them. I think we will before Russia because at the very elast young talented guys like Morris, Hyndman, etc will be pushing those 2 guys.

I disagree that it was OK. We were great, beat everyone we realistically had a chance to beat. Colombia and Argentina should beat us 10 times out of 10, I think the fact that Colombia needed that much help to squeak out a 1-0 win shows well for the USA.

What gets me is BRadley, what the hell happened to Bradley? He had one decent game (Costa Rica) aside from that he's sucked. And he sucke dlast gold cup and in some WCQ. I wonder if MLS is hurting him too much.

 

[HoppyDaze]

I watched it. Cant be the best player in the world, quote and not put a pk on goal. Kick it in the ground

 

[Talgrath]

Hoo boy, get ready for the hottest of takes. Messi says he's retiring...from international football.

Messi Retires

To be honest, I have a hard time blaming him, he knows the Argentina press is going to roast him for the PK miss, despite the fact that he's played extremely well all tournament and they've never really backed him up. If I was him I might take my millions and just hang out in Spain too.

EDIT:
Mascherano is out too.

Mascherano Quits

 

[robdogj]

I watched it. Cant be the best player in the world, quote and not put a pk on goal. Kick it in the ground

IMHO this guy should be rated higher than Messi

Led his country & clubes to glory - ok he didn't score 800 goals & he did have a bit of a temper, but you could count on this guy to lead his team - now he is learning how to be a Top Gaffer & already has won a European Cup.

 

[fourfarthing]

IMHO this guy should be rated higher than Messi

Led his country & clubes to glory - ok he didn't score 800 goals & he did have a bit of a temper, but you could count on this guy to lead his team - now he is learning how to be a Top Gaffer & already has won a European Cup.

I don't know. He wears a number 4, which is rare for one receiving best in the world accolades, and ZZ really seems to be skinning him there. I think Messi is better than that guy.