The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Bradley is a natural leader. I like it.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Awesome header on ussoccer.com

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Total domination today. Only a few real chances for Guatemala. Despite a horrible PK take by Jozy and terrible reffing US rolled through that match.

The first team defense definitely looked better than the second team. Yedlin looked really good at mid. I'm starting to change my tune. I want him as a fullback because he's more diverse in his skillset that can help the team from there but he's really creative.

But seriously that ref was terrible. No card on the guy who pulled Jozy down in the box. Bradley gets stepped on and gets a yellow. Missed the offsides on their best goal chance (the one that chandler wound up deflecting into Guzan) or the guy who went studs up into Bradley from behidn not getting a yellow is baffling as well. I get Chandlers he was an accumulation yellow. I disagree with Mix's because he was fouled and play should have been stopped. I mean it's the right call but they missed the foul on Mix that would have stopped him from going to the ball.

I forget how much I hate CONCACAF refs until this time of year.

 

[GuldTuborg]

16 minutes in and I think our Women's team can go home. Unreal.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQd7g565e2I[/ame]

 

[day_trippr]

16 minutes in and I think our Women's team can go home. Unreal.

That was an unbelievable way to start a football game.
And it could easily have been 6 goals in the first half alone.

Great game. Kudos to the champs!

Cheers!

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Craziest thing about the match, was arguably the best player for the US (Rapinoe) was the worst player on the pitch. Japan had the perfect plan for her. They attacked her and held her. She was terrible. Instead of adapting and switchign to one touch. There was a time Holiday was streaking in the box, and she had a pass wide open and tried to take on the Japanese wide mid and defender. THen there was the time she had a shot and instead held it for 2 touches and it was gone.

 

[Talgrath]

Craziest thing about the match, was arguably the best player for the US (Rapinoe) was the worst player on the pitch. Japan had the perfect plan for her. They attacked her and held her. She was terrible. Instead of adapting and switchign to one touch. There was a time Holiday was streaking in the box, and she had a pass wide open and tried to take on the Japanese wide mid and defender. THen there was the time she had a shot and instead held it for 2 touches and it was gone.

Arguably that led to the first goal, in my opinion. It seemed like Japan was trying to shut down Rapinoe and Morgan (not a bad idea, really), so they didn't account for Lloyd when she was streaking in to the box. It seemed like Japan always had at least two players on Morgan and Rapinoe, but that left lots of space for other players (like Lloyd, Heath and Holiday) to exploit. Overall, if nothing else, you have to praise Japan for not giving up despite getting their clock cleaned they fought to the end.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I thought Rapinoe took the corner that Lloyd scored. She scored that because no one thought to mark someone out of the box. Even someone as dangerous as Lloyd. It was a smart gamble for the US. Japan basically man marked and left no one at the top of the 6 in zone marking. Rapinoe just wasn't up to the adjustments. Morgan wasn't really doubled though. She was just the lone striker. When you're one striker, you get doubled a lot because usually you're facing a 3v1 scenario and a defense wants to throw people at you to get a turn over quickly. The issue I took with Rapinoe was she was being doubled, but it freed up so much space for Klingenberg and Holiday. Instead she tried to take defenders on. If she bought into the one touch that most of the rest of the team was doing. She would have found her way out of those doubles via passes to other teammates. Her effective periods were when she was one touch, effectively triangle passing, with Klingenberg and Holiday. She just couldn't stick to it. Japan did a really good job doubling up on the forward ball possessors, especially out wide. It's why Heath/Krieger were more effective than Klingenberg/Rapinoe. Heath and Krieger were doing better with overlapping runs and back and forth passing. Japan couldn't double them up, by the time they did the ball was usually headed towards the other or because of how they passed they couldn't just let one make a run while doubling the other up. I think it's the first time I've seen (though I missed the last 2 matches) the right side of the US outclass the left.

Also it's really a shame it took them so long to get O'Hara in the game. She's just too good as a 2 way sub to not have been featured more.

 

[Talgrath]

Ah, you are right on the first goal, my bad. But it did seem like the Japanese were ganging up on Rapinoe and Morgan more than you usually might see (again, not a terrible idea as long as you maintain defensive positioning elsewhere).

 

[HoppyDaze]

Clearly the Japanese players should fire a sword through themselves to save the last bit of honor they have.

 

[Talgrath]

A short week in MLS, mercifully so, as the Gold Cup absences are already being felt, here's what's going on:

1. MLS's Refusal To Take Time Off Hurts Quality and Parity
We all know that MLS not taking time off for international breaks hurts the quality of the game in MLS, naturally most of the best players are gone with their national teams. One thing that is often overlooked is how much it hurts team parity though, each team is hit differently in a very tightly matched league. For teams with lots of North American and Central American talent, the Gold Cup is devastating to their rosters; three teams, Toronto, FC Dallas and Real Salt Lake are missing five players for the gold cup, many of them players key to each team's success, but some teams aren't missing anyone and others aren't missing any starters. I can certainly understand not taking off for competitions that you might not have many players in, the Cup of Nations, the Euro and Copa America generally don't include a lot of MLS players, but when you draw most of your talent from North and Central America not taking time off for the Gold Cup is ridiculous. The loss of five players by RSL with three of them being regular starters seems awfully unfair when DC United is only missing Michael Seaton(who? Exactly) doesn't it?

2. MLS Teams Reload
The international window opens on the 8th, but MLS teams are already (re)loading up on whoever they can get that fits their needs or wants. Steven Gerrard and Andrea Pirlo are the big names so far that are official, but other teams are aiming to pick up midrange talent, the Sounders for example signed former player and fan favorite Erik Friberg. If the much rumored "Core Player" mechanic comes in before the international window opens up, expect a very chaotic and busy July for MLS teams scrambling to work out the math to add a new shiny DP while making someone else a "core player".

3. Kaka Sees Red
For the first time in his career, Kaka sees a straight red...and it wasn't a deserved one, in my opinion. Some people are saying he "stomped" on Morales, but if anything his feet got tangled with the RSL player. A yellow was well deserved...a straight red, not so much. Orlando City won't file an appeal because it's hard to get a red card overturned when there is clearly a cardable offense (a Disciplinary Committee rule that I don't have a problem with), especially since you only get two appeals per season. Nonetheless, it's a damn shame since OCSC relies on the Brazilian so much and he always brings some impressive plays.

4. Fabian Espindola Needs to Calm Down
Fabian Espindola was shown a straight red in the match Friday against the Sounders after throwing an elbow towards Zach Scott's throat, this is, I should note, the second suspensions he's served this year for discipline issues; his first was a six game ban carrying over from last season when he shoved an assistant referee in the second leg of the eastern conference playoff against NYRB. The thing is, Espindola has always had these sorts of discipline issues, even when he played for RSL. Espindola seems to be good for at least one disciplinary suspension a year in MLS, and that's not a good sign. At some point one of his coaches needs to tell the fiery forward to calm down, just a bit, maybe have him do meditation or something. A forward is no use if they're sitting in the stands, after all.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Chortle.

 

[hopstupid]

A short week in MLS, mercifully so, as the Gold Cup absences are already being felt, here's what's going on:

1. MLS's Refusal To Take Time Off Hurts Quality and Parity
We all know that MLS not taking time off for international breaks hurts the quality of the game in MLS, naturally most of the best players are gone with their national teams. One thing that is often overlooked is how much it hurts team parity though, each team is hit differently in a very tightly matched league. For teams with lots of North American and Central American talent, the Gold Cup is devastating to their rosters; three teams, Toronto, FC Dallas and Real Salt Lake are missing five players for the gold cup, many of them players key to each team's success, but some teams aren't missing anyone and others aren't missing any starters. I can certainly understand not taking off for competitions that you might not have many players in, the Cup of Nations, the Euro and Copa America generally don't include a lot of MLS players, but when you draw most of your talent from North and Central America not taking time off for the Gold Cup is ridiculous. The loss of five players by RSL with three of them being regular starters seems awfully unfair when DC United is only missing Michael Seaton(who? Exactly) doesn't it?

2. MLS Teams Reload
The international window opens on the 8th, but MLS teams are already (re)loading up on whoever they can get that fits their needs or wants. Steven Gerrard and Andrea Pirlo are the big names so far that are official, but other teams are aiming to pick up midrange talent, the Sounders for example signed former player and fan favorite Erik Friberg. If the much rumored "Core Player" mechanic comes in before the international window opens up, expect a very chaotic and busy July for MLS teams scrambling to work out the math to add a new shiny DP while making someone else a "core player".

3. Kaka Sees Red
For the first time in his career, Kaka sees a straight red...and it wasn't a deserved one, in my opinion. Some people are saying he "stomped" on Morales, but if anything his feet got tangled with the RSL player. A yellow was well deserved...a straight red, not so much. Orlando City won't file an appeal because it's hard to get a red card overturned when there is clearly a cardable offense (a Disciplinary Committee rule that I don't have a problem with), especially since you only get two appeals per season. Nonetheless, it's a damn shame since OCSC relies on the Brazilian so much and he always brings some impressive plays.

4. Fabian Espindola Needs to Calm Down
Fabian Espindola was shown a straight red in the match Friday against the Sounders after throwing an elbow towards Zach Scott's throat, this is, I should note, the second suspensions he's served this year for discipline issues; his first was a six game ban carrying over from last season when he shoved an assistant referee in the second leg of the eastern conference playoff against NYRB. The thing is, Espindola has always had these sorts of discipline issues, even when he played for RSL. Espindola seems to be good for at least one disciplinary suspension a year in MLS, and that's not a good sign. At some point one of his coaches needs to tell the fiery forward to calm down, just a bit, maybe have him do meditation or something. A forward is no use if they're sitting in the stands, after all.

Since the MLS has a playoff format I don't think its that big of a deal. You just have to get in, it's not like the European leagues were every point is vital.

 

[Talgrath]

In theory you just have to get in...but the bottom 4 in the playoffs have to play a single elimination round to play teams 1 and 2 this year, so staying in the top two is vital. Additionally teams 3 and 4 will play at home in the elimination round, so slipping to 5 or 6 can be a major blow. And if you don't think a single point can matter in MLS, tell that to the 2014 Timbers, they missed the playoffs by literally 1 point (they had the higher goal differential than Vancouver); one more tie and they were in. You could also tell that to the 2013 Chicago Fire or San Jose Earthquakes, both missed the playoffs by a single point (they were out of the playoffs on tie-breakers). Look at the standings right now and you'll see how much a point could matter; in the west there is a mere 1 point plus tie breakers difference between 1st and 4th and a 3 point difference between 5th and 1st, in the east DC United might be running away with it, but below that the difference between 2nd and 6th is, again 1 point and tie breakers. A win or a tie might be the difference between having a post season or sitting on the sidelines.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

So I didn't post last night for various excuses.

THoughts on the USMNT victory over Honduras

First, the win was key. Now a win over Haiti and they are through to knockouts. That plus a draw between Honduras and Panama and they've clinched the group.

Second, the ref was atrocious. I cannot believe someone that inexperienced was given the keys to a major tournament. CONCACAF refs are horrible, this one was one of the worst. His inability to play advantages, the fact that he issued only one yellow to Honduras (for repeat offender) when they had at a minimum 2 challenges that endangered the safety of a US player and were late to boot. Yedlin was getting mugged out there and no foul. It still baffles me today, how Najar was able to just 2 hand shove Yedlin, and not get a foul. It's baffling.

Thoughts on players

I was concerned with Dempsey after his performance in the friendly, he looked tired and thouhg inventive, uninspired, I was concerned about maybe some rust/frustration from his suspension. He answered that yesterday with greatness. What a great performance he had. He was getting fouled, making passes and obviously scoring goals. That's what we need from him. If he keeps this up we're gonna be in great shape on the goal scoring front.

Bradley looked very strong. He wasn't the best I've seen him or close to it. But he put in 90 strong minutes that if he does that consistently we'll have a good number of chances.

Yedlin looked good despite playing with a disadvantage of being mugged and not getting a call. He was fast back and forth, unlike the other side of the field, there was always someone back on the right side defending as both Chandler and Yedlin were booking it back.

Guzan looked great. He was decisive and I can only think of one wrong move he made, one of his clearnaces was squibbed. That's not a bad night. He took all the right paths to the ball, he did everything right. His only goal allowed was because Alvarado fell asleep.

Brooks looked good. Got schooled badly on one play, but overall made a lot of important clearances and heads up plays. I hope he smoothes out some of his rough edges, he is a special talent if he does. He's got insane vision for a CB when it comes to passes.

Alvarado aside from that one play looked good. I odn't know what happened. I like Alexi Lalas's comment on it, do anything.Slide, whistle, do magic, just don't let him go in with a half challenge. Aside from that though he was good. That's the thing with him though, he's very raw. But if he smoothes out those edges he will be good.

Johnson was solid. He was caught forward a few times and Beckerman was forced to LB which opened up the middle. That's the risk with playing him though. But he made some great runs and was challenging defenders and really didn't let anyone get the better of him when he was in defense.

Chandler looked good. He was tasked with covering probably their best forward or mid (Najar) and Najar aside from pushing Yedlin off the ball, really didn't do too much on the day. He deserves some credit for that. I don't recall any howling mistakes from him aside from one turnover.

Jozy was basically not there today. I think that was the product of being as far forward as he was against 3 CBs, they were pestering him all day. He held up play a bit, and created the chance that lead to the first goal. He was OK. Certainly better than Wondo was off the bench. I don't see a better striking option or I'd say play them. Only other thing I can think of if he struggles through the tourney ( I don't think he will) is put Dempsey up top and have Mix and Bradley at CM and Morales at CDM.

Beckerman looked slow. He was smart which was his saving grace from this being a horrific performance, He couldn't keep up with anyone. When Najar cut in, it was the responsibility of the defense (either RB chasing or CB blocking) to cover him because Beckerman couldn't keep up with him. He's just too slow right now. For that I think we need to look at Mix or Morales, and using Beckerman as the sub to calm things down. This is where you wish Jones or Cameron was healthy. Cause they'd slot so well in there as a wreckingball CDM.

Gyasi to me lost his starting spot. I'm not saying bury him on the bench. He does a lot of things well, but he was clearly the weakest player for the US. Too many turnovers from him. Either from terrible passes or just getting the ball stripped from him. I think Bedoya or Zusi will start the next match on the left side. I also think rotation is key so he'll start again because some players will have tired legs.

Evans did well off the bench. He made a few very smart plays and showed why JK named him to the roster. Not cause he's gonna start, but for 30-40 minutes he'll be a very strong defender. Zusi looked decent in his spell aside from the time he did a great job winning the ball only to hodl it and pass it back which eventually lead to a change of possession for Honduras. Wondo really did nothing. He didn't have great service either. He basically was just fresh legs chasing the ball.

 

[Talgrath]

I mostly agree with you...but I'm going to strongly disagree on Timmy Chandler. He had a few of his usual "brainfart" moments and his positioning was wrong a lot throughout the night, if it wasn't for Yedlin covering for him I think Chandler would have been smoked multiple times. Zardes, I think, just isn't good at midfield, as a striker? Sure, he does fine, but he has no clue what to do on defense; you can work on that but the Gold Cup is not the place to learn. Personally I think Jozy might have taken a knock or two from Honduras somewhere along the way, he looked good (but not great) for the first half, but the second half he was out of it. Alvarado looked pretty bad to me, but in a "this can be worked on" sort of way, I'm not so sure I want him starting in a match against more talented opposition though. Overall I thought it was an ugly game and an ugly win...but with the ref not calling anything and Honduras playing rugby, I'll take a win with no injuries. Haiti and Panama should be less violent and less challenging opponents, fortunately.

 

[Grannyknot]

I thought our 2 center backs + Chandler were crap.
Tim Ream needs to be playing. He is quality.

That was our toughest game until probably the semi final.
I'm not interested in seeing a defensive minded midfielder like Beckerman start until then.
I'd like to see Bedoya more.

There you go. Take that & rip it to shreds. Please write a lengthy rebuttal complete with bullet points.

 

[Talgrath]

I thought our 2 center backs + Chandler were crap.
Tim Ream needs to be playing. He is quality.

That was our toughest game until probably the semi final.
I'm not interested in seeing a defensive minded midfielder like Beckerman start until then.
I'd like to see Bedoya more.

There you go. Take that & rip it to shreds. Please write a lengthy rebuttal complete with bullet points.

Okay.

• While I didn't like Alvarado, Brooks was mostly solid. Instead of Alvarado I'd like to see Gonzalez more than Ream myself, but Ream is pretty good too.
• Don't sleep on Panama, they made it all the way to the final last time. Panama had a bad game against Haiti, but they can still be dangerous.
• I think you need to keep a defensive center mid involved so everyone is used to playing with one. besides that, I'm a big fan of not taking unnecessary chances.
• Bedoya or Zusi at left mid would be my preference.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I thought our 2 center backs + Chandler were crap.
Tim Ream needs to be playing. He is quality.

That was our toughest game until probably the semi final.
I'm not interested in seeing a defensive minded midfielder like Beckerman start until then.
I'd like to see Bedoya more.

There you go. Take that & rip it to shreds. Please write a lengthy rebuttal complete with bullet points.

Tim Ream? I just threw up in my mouth.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I mostly agree with you...but I'm going to strongly disagree on Timmy Chandler. He had a few of his usual "brainfart" moments and his positioning was wrong a lot throughout the night, if it wasn't for Yedlin covering for him I think Chandler would have been smoked multiple times. Zardes, I think, just isn't good at midfield, as a striker? Sure, he does fine, but he has no clue what to do on defense; you can work on that but the Gold Cup is not the place to learn. Personally I think Jozy might have taken a knock or two from Honduras somewhere along the way, he looked good (but not great) for the first half, but the second half he was out of it. Alvarado looked pretty bad to me, but in a "this can be worked on" sort of way, I'm not so sure I want him starting in a match against more talented opposition though. Overall I thought it was an ugly game and an ugly win...but with the ref not calling anything and Honduras playing rugby, I'll take a win with no injuries. Haiti and Panama should be less violent and less challenging opponents, fortunately.

Chandler was alright. I think he gets put under too much of a microscope given his past. Yedlin did help a ton. He was tasked with marking their best player and Najar really didn't do too much.

I think Zardes is a solid mid, but I don't think he can do it for 60. I think he's good for 30-40. I would rather him be a winger. I don't think he's an out and out striker either.

I don't think Panama will be easy by any stretch of any imagination. They've been in better form recently than Honduras as well.

 

[Grannyknot]

Tim Ream? I just threw up in my mouth.

LOL.
What is it about him that you don't like?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

LOL.
What is it about him that you don't like?

Have you watched him play on the national team? I get it he's been really solid with club. But he has been horrible for the national team. Seems like almost every game he's played significant minutes he's made a boner move that concede a goal. Whether it's because he didn't hold the line, or made a poor pass/clearance, etc.

Some players don't succeed on the national level, just like some are better on the national level. I am of the opinion that Ream is one of those guys who hasn't succeeded at the national level.

 

[Grannyknot]

Have you watched him play on the national team? I get it he's been really solid with club. But he has been horrible for the national team. Seems like almost every game he's played significant minutes he's made a boner move that concede a goal. Whether it's because he didn't hold the line, or made a poor pass/clearance, etc.

Some players don't succeed on the national level, just like some are better on the national level. I am of the opinion that Ream is one of those guys who hasn't succeeded at the national level.

He's barely even played for the national team since 2011. A few substitute appearances last year. He had a poor gold cup in 2011, but has been in great club form the past 2 seasons.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

He hasn't done anything to earn more time.

 

[Talgrath]

Chandler was alright. I think he gets put under too much of a microscope given his past. Yedlin did help a ton. He was tasked with marking their best player and Najar really didn't do too much.

I think Zardes is a solid mid, but I don't think he can do it for 60. I think he's good for 30-40. I would rather him be a winger. I don't think he's an out and out striker either.

I don't think Panama will be easy by any stretch of any imagination. They've been in better form recently than Honduras as well.

Personally, I didn't care about the Chandler drama when it happened, I just think he makes too many mistakes, mostly in positioning; he doesn't have the speed be able to get up as far as he does against fast opposition like Najar and still get back in time and he doesn't recognize it. Chandler's issues are fixable, but so far he doesn't seem willing to fix them.

I think Panama will be easier than Honduras, though they aren't going to be as easy as Haiti. Panama did make it to the final last Gold Cup but I think that was more of a fluke.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Personally, I didn't care about the Chandler drama when it happened, I just think he makes too many mistakes, mostly in positioning; he doesn't have the speed be able to get up as far as he does against fast opposition like Najar and still get back in time and he doesn't recognize it. Chandler's issues are fixable, but so far he doesn't seem willing to fix them.

I think Panama will be easier than Honduras, though they aren't going to be as easy as Haiti. Panama did make it to the final last Gold Cup but I think that was more of a fluke.

Haiti won't be a total walk over either. We got the tough group. Hopefully we win against Haiti and Panama/Honduras draws so we lock up the number 1. Hopefully the 3rd place team we get will be easy. Canada or Cuba wouldn't be bad and probably are realistic.

 

[Talgrath]

Haiti won't be a total walk over either. We got the tough group. Hopefully we win against Haiti and Panama/Honduras draws so we lock up the number 1. Hopefully the 3rd place team we get will be easy. Canada or Cuba wouldn't be bad and probably are realistic.

Well, no team is a total walk, at least in my opinion, unless it's Germany vs Micronesia or something like that. But Haiti is about as close as you can come to a total walk in the Gold Cup.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

And as far as chandler goes. His speed is hardly an issue. He's not Yedlin fast, but he's one of the faster guys on the team.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Well, no team is a total walk, at least in my opinion, unless it's Germany vs Micronesia or something like that. But Haiti is about as close as you can come to a total walk in the Gold Cup.

Given form I can see an arguemnt they're not too far behind Honduras. Honduras has better talent of course. But results favor Haiti.