The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[BrewKnurd]

Ha I know I'm just seeing if I can put together a good enough argument. But it's been hard since this week since this job I've been on has me all sleep deprived.

But, as far as the schedule, I think playoffs should be in MLS either way. The typical American sports fan loves playoffs because we love the underdog stories. And in general the playoffs create a lot of amazing play and drama/controversy. Which is fun to watch

Absolutely agree on that. America is set on the idea of playoffs. And in things like college basketball or football, where you can't have balanced schedules, I totally agree with that approach.

But the purist in me says that a balanced schedule, best record at the end of the season wins, system is the best way to determine who was best over an entire season, vs just at the end.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Like the Patriots a few years back winning every game but the super bowl.

 

[Grannyknot]

That probably should have been (Rafael's hand wasn't in a natural position) but that's irrelevant to the hypocrisy of the 2 situations. Nani's foul was about 10 times less dangerous than Benzema's

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

 

[aygov]

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

And that's what's sad. It seems like more often than not refs give cards based on what happens after the foul rather than the foul itself.

 

[hopstupid]

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

actually Nani was flopping on the ground as though he was the one that was just jump kicked

 

[tennesseean_87]

And then the ref has to put up with everyone whining about it, because they don't realize that only whining after the foul, not the card, changes anything. I used to love the beauty of soccer, then I quit watching in order to watch rugby, and now I can hardly stand putting up with this crap. You don't have people flopping around like idiots, and you get penalized for just talking to the ref (unless you're the captain), so there's a lot less of this crap that goes on. [/rant]

 

[hopstupid]

And then the ref has to put up with everyone whining about it, because they don't realize that only whining after the foul, not the card, changes anything. I used to love the beauty of soccer, then I quit watching in order to watch rugby, and now I can hardly stand putting up with this crap. You don't have people flopping around like idiots, and you get penalized for just talking to the ref (unless you're the captain), so there's a lot less of this crap that goes on. [/rant]

Here is a great example of that

it's really a great shot you see the whole man u team racing to get the call on the dive.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Can we get this clear? It's diving, not flopping. Flopping suggests a lack of action. Let's face it, when they dive they put ALL their acting abilities on show. That is NOT flopping. Flopping would be falling to the ground like a boneless squid and just laying there.

It's called diving, guys. Get them ducks in a row!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Here is a great example of that

it's really a great shot you see the whole man u team racing to get the call on the dive.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe-6MXtOtM4

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Qa7viZ4oQ

The nice thing is that now the MLS Disciplinary Committee will start fining and suspending players for mobbing the ref or opposing players. Up to three players from each team can be a part of the discussion/argument but the fourth to confront someone will be subject to disciplinary actions.

 

[mrgstiffler]

FINALLY seeing what the Timbers are capable of.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Indeed, they looked playoff worthy against Houston. Nagbe and Alhassan were all over the place!

 

[mrgstiffler]

Indeed, they looked playoff worthy against Houston. Nagbe and Alhassan were all over the place!

They've looked playoff worthy during the last quarter of every match they've played this season. Tonight they finally played that same way the entire game. Nagbe being all over the place is actually not good for the Timbers. He has so much potential but doesn't trust a one or two touch. I don't know how many times I've yelled "Dammit Nagbe" at my TV or at the field. He needs confidence. But that wont come unless he actually takes risk. Ryan Johnson on the other hand is full of confidence. He had a hat trick during preseason and is willing to take the shot or make a crazy run. You can see his level of confidence when he has the ball. Nagbe doesn't want to make a single mistake, Johnson doesn't care if he makes a dozen mistakes. I'm not sure if this is because of the pressure that Coach Porter has put on Nagbe or something else. Porter has done an excellent job with the rest of the lineup, though. They seem VERY willing to play for him.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

actually Nani was flopping on the ground as though he was the one that was just jump kicked

Defense tactic. I'm sure Nanis leg hurt as well since he wasn't braced but for all he knew Alonso may have been in the wrong (collision happened in a fraction of a second hardly enough time for Nani to process everything that happened, what he did was simply what he was trained to do)

 

[hopstupid]

Defense tactic. I'm sure Nanis leg hurt as well since he wasn't braced but for all he knew Alonso may have been in the wrong (collision happened in a fraction of a second hardly enough time for Nani to process everything that happened, what he did was simply what he was trained to do)

I was replying to this

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

Is it ok for nani to flop around "like he had been shanked in a prison fight", but not Arbeloa?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

He has a valid point though. If the defender for Gala, went down maybe bit hhis lip to draw blood, etc, then he would have drawn the red. Arbeloa like Nani went down like trained, heavy contact, go down. Both plays it shouldn't matter if the guy flops around or not. Should have been a red for Benzema if it was for Nani, and Benzema should serve a longer suspension than Nani would as playing near the head is infinitely more dangerous than the chest.

 

[Grannyknot]

I was replying to this




Is it ok for nani to flop around "like he had been shanked in a prison fight", but not Arbeloa?

There is a post match interview, which I can not find at the moment, where Nani was asked about going to ground, and if he was injured, to which he replied that when he hit the ground, he had the breath knocked out of him. I don't recall him flopping around, but, yes he did lay on the ground for a while.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Wow, this is the most brutal 100% clean tackle I have ever seen.
[ame="http://youtu.be/Co2MgRAnRMw"]http://youtu.be/Co2MgRAnRMw[/ame]

 

[hopstupid]

He has a valid point though. If the defender for Gala, went down maybe bit hhis lip to draw blood, etc, then he would have drawn the red. Arbeloa like Nani went down like trained, heavy contact, go down. Both plays it shouldn't matter if the guy flops around or not. Should have been a red for Benzema if it was for Nani, and Benzema should serve a longer suspension than Nani would as playing near the head is infinitely more dangerous than the chest.

But he forgot to put in the part where Nani rolled on the ground like he was "shanked in a knife fight" after jump kicking someone in the chest

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

Then goes on to question the manhood of Arbeloa. Is Nani a real man?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

But he forgot to put in the part where Nani rolled on the ground like he was "shanked in a knife fight" after jump kicking someone in the chest

Nani didn't roll around to be 100% honest. He fell on the ground holding his leg and ribs. Neither are unreasonable injuries given what happened. It's not like he reached for his face. I'm sure both of the players were in pain. But again, the point (not your side point) holds some truth, Benzema at least gets a yellow most likely if the defender he kicked in the face rolled on the ground clutching his face. If he was a Spaniard he probably would have bit his lip as well to draw blood to go for the red.

 

[Norselord]

Changes that I would like to see in the MLS that might make it better.

1) promotion and relegation -- this would be great, NASL and USLPro stadiums aren't that bad, and it would get more regional attention.

2) I recognize that synchronizing MLS schedule with other top leagues creates conflicts with NFL and problems with weather. Still think it makes treansfer season better, and allows for better coordination of international and regional play within FIFA world.

3) The playoff system in the MLS is kooky. Set it up like other leagues do, where there is one or more tournaments that run concurrently with the league matches. (see FA Cup, CApital One Cup, Paint cup in british league)

4) Improve youth development -- drafting kids out of college is sloppy seconds. Any kids with talent are already pro by Age 21/22. In Europe, suitable kids are scouted and recruited at ages 8-12. Nothing that says MLS teams can't set up private boarding schools where academics are taught to prep a kid for college, but also where there is a heavy emphasis on learning soccer.

5) Turn the teams into clubs. Clubs means that in addition to them mens 1A team (the team we see on Saturdays/Sundays) have them have mens 2nd, 3rd teams, as well as womens, youth, and senior teams that play in non-paying leagues.

6) Team loyalty. Looks like a lot of players switch teams every other year...what's up with that?

________________________________________________________________

I just got the MLSlive app for IPad and laptop this year, and although i have been following international and european soccer for decades, have decided to start watching the MLS seriously. I semi-randomly picked the Whitecaps as a team to support. My thoughts here:

- The following players look pretty good: Daigo Kobayashi, YP Lee, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joe Cannon. Can we please get some forwards?!

 

[hopstupid]

Nani didn't roll around to be 100% honest. He fell on the ground holding his leg and ribs. Neither are unreasonable injuries given what happened. It's not like he reached for his face. I'm sure both of the players were in pain. But again, the point (not your side point) holds some truth, Benzema at least gets a yellow most likely if the defender he kicked in the face rolled on the ground clutching his face. If he was a Spaniard he probably would have bit his lip as well to draw blood to go for the red.

And is Nani a real man?

I'm sorry I used the wrong word rolled it should of been flopped

The big difference that I noticed was that Arbeloa flopped around on the ground for 5 minutes like he had been shanked in a prison brawl. The galatassary defender went to ground momentarily, regained composure, then got back on his feet like a real man.

looks like the Galatasaray player was down for a while. You can't even really tell if his boot actually got him in the face .





some of my fav nani highlights



probably my favorite

 

[hopstupid]

Changes that I would like to see in the MLS that might make it better.

1) promotion and relegation -- this would be great, NASL and USLPro stadiums aren't that bad, and it would get more regional attention.

2) I recognize that synchronizing MLS schedule with other top leagues creates conflicts with NFL and problems with weather. Still think it makes treansfer season better, and allows for better coordination of international and regional play within FIFA world.

3) The playoff system in the MLS is kooky. Set it up like other leagues do, where there is one or more tournaments that run concurrently with the league matches. (see FA Cup, CApital One Cup, Paint cup in british league)

4) Improve youth development -- drafting kids out of college is sloppy seconds. Any kids with talent are already pro by Age 21/22. In Europe, suitable kids are scouted and recruited at ages 8-12. Nothing that says MLS teams can't set up private boarding schools where academics are taught to prep a kid for college, but also where there is a heavy emphasis on learning soccer.

5) Turn the teams into clubs. Clubs means that in addition to them mens 1A team (the team we see on Saturdays/Sundays) have them have mens 2nd, 3rd teams, as well as womens, youth, and senior teams that play in non-paying leagues.

6) Team loyalty. Looks like a lot of players switch teams every other year...what's up with that?

________________________________________________________________

I just got the MLSlive app for IPad and laptop this year, and although i have been following international and european soccer for decades, have decided to start watching the MLS seriously. I semi-randomly picked the Whitecaps as a team to support. My thoughts here:

- The following players look pretty good: Daigo Kobayashi, YP Lee, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joe Cannon. Can we please get some forwards?!

+2

Maybe the MLS should hire you

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Anyone in NBA want to sign our goalie??




And for good measure....Same goalie, same game. He's actually a bloody good goalie, one of those with tons of insanity.

 

[aygov]

And for good measure....Same goalie, same game. He's actually a bloody good goalie, one of those with tons of insanity.

As a gooner I can definitely appreciate a keeper with an insane streak. I think you got a to be a bit unhinged to go between the sticks in the first place.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

1) promotion and relegation -- this would be great, NASL and USLPro stadiums aren't that bad, and it would get more regional attention.

Sorry dude, it's not going to work... at least not for another 20-30 years. NASL doesn't even completely qualify to be a division 2 league. Any MLS club that got relegated would be completely doomed.

2) I recognize that synchronizing MLS schedule with other top leagues creates conflicts with NFL and problems with weather. Still think it makes treansfer season better, and allows for better coordination of international and regional play within FIFA world.

No. A million times no. MLS is doing just fine on attendance. It has a higher average attendance than NHL and NBA. Scheduling it during NFL season would DESTROY attendance, as well as winter matches in SLC, Colorado, Toronto, Montreal, NY, New England.... did you not see the last USA match in the blizzard? If MLS went through the roughest parts of the winter there would a big drop in attendance, a ton of cancelled matches, and the potential for many many more injuries.

3) The playoff system in the MLS is kooky. Set it up like other leagues do, where there is one or more tournaments that run concurrently with the league matches. (see FA Cup, CApital One Cup, Paint cup in british league)

It's a playoff system, not a side tournament. You can't do playoffs until the regular season has completed.

4) Improve youth development -- drafting kids out of college is sloppy seconds. Any kids with talent are already pro by Age 21/22. In Europe, suitable kids are scouted and recruited at ages 8-12. Nothing that says MLS teams can't set up private boarding schools where academics are taught to prep a kid for college, but also where there is a heavy emphasis on learning soccer.

Every year MLS youth systems get better. Give it time.

5) Turn the teams into clubs. Clubs means that in addition to them mens 1A team (the team we see on Saturdays/Sundays) have them have mens 2nd, 3rd teams, as well as womens, youth, and senior teams that play in non-paying leagues.

They're matching MLS clubs up with USL Pro clubs. Again, this is new territory. Give it time. But as far as same-club-different-league, there are plenty of clubs that already do that. Chicago has a PDL club, every club with an academy has their academy teams play PDL and USL Pro clubs, Portland, Seattle and Chicago now have NWSL clubs...

6) Team loyalty. Looks like a lot of players switch teams every other year...what's up with that?

............ what? Okay, are you trolling?

The following players look pretty good: Daigo Kobayashi, YP Lee, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joe Cannon. Can we please get some forwards?!

Chris Wondolowski, Mike Magee (goes between playing left wing and acting as a second striker), Claudio Bieler, Thierry Henry, Robert Earnshaw, Ryan Johnson, Deshorn Brown (looks excellent even as a rookie), Marco di Vaio......

Shall I continue?

 

[Norselord]

As a gooner I can definitely appreciate a keeper with an insane streak. I think you got a to be a bit unhinged to go between the sticks in the first place.

+1

These are the guys that go to bars, talk #$#$ to everyone, eventually end up in the back alley getting kicked in the ribs by a half-dozen drunken sods, and then consider that proper training for the next match.

Seriously, goalies are nuts. I have taken my share of soccer balls to the face, but to voluntarily stand there and risk not just getting the ball in the face, but the boot as well?!

Petr Cech has the right idea...

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Seriously, goalies are nuts. I have taken my share of soccer balls to the face, but to voluntarily stand there and risk not just getting the ball in the face, but the boot as well?!

Played keeper for 12 years. Once I got into my traveling club, high school, and the Olympic Development Program, I'd broken every finger (most multiple times), a couple ribs, broken nose, countless boots to the face and chest, dislocated hip...

Hell, the very last match of my highschool career I landed wrong on my elbow are a long stretching save. Hurt like a sonofabitch but kept going. At half time someone pointed out that my elbow had swollen to the size of a grapefruit. Played the entire second half, even stopped a PK that would have stolen the match from us.

Being a keeper is brutal... but after playing lacrosse in college for a couple years I can tell you that in order to be a lacrosse goalie you basically have to be an alcoholic. It's the only way to get through it

 

[Norselord]

Sorry dude, it's not going to work... at least not for another 20-30 years. NASL doesn't even completely qualify to be a division 2 league. Any MLS club that got relegated would be completely doomed.


No. A million times no. MLS is doing just fine on attendance. It has a higher average attendance than NHL and NBA. Scheduling it during NFL season would DESTROY attendance, as well as winter matches in SLC, Colorado, Toronto, Montreal, NY, New England.... did you not see the last USA match in the blizzard? If MLS went through the roughest parts of the winter there would a big drop in attendance, a ton of cancelled matches, and the potential for many many more injuries.


It's a playoff system, not a side tournament. You can't do playoffs until the regular season has completed.


Every year MLS youth systems get better. Give it time.


They're matching MLS clubs up with USL Pro clubs. Again, this is new territory. Give it time. But as far as same-club-different-league, there are plenty of clubs that already do that. Chicago has a PDL club, every club with an academy has their academy teams play PDL and USL Pro clubs, Portland, Seattle and Chicago now have NWSL clubs...


............ what? Okay, are you trolling?


Chris Wondolowski, Mike Magee (goes between playing left wing and acting as a second striker), Claudio Bieler, Thierry Henry, Robert Earnshaw, Ryan Johnson, Deshorn Brown (looks excellent even as a rookie), Marco di Vaio......

Shall I continue?

Don't know where to begin with this response except for to tell you to "Relax and have a homebrew" and then:

1) Have you been to any NASL matches? Their stadiums are more than adequate to handle current MLS crowds. Also, if relegation meant doom, that is called competitive pressure and will get owners to spend some $$$ to keep their teams from getting relegated. Besides, as a Galaxy fan you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

2) You suspect that scheduling MLS during NFL will destroy the MLS, you don't know that for a FACT. In my opinion there is about as much overlap between MLS and NFL as there is between NHL and NBA...European leagues play in the cold, even the Russian league, Scottish league, swedish, norwegian, etc. They take a winter break during the worst of it.

EDIT: Once the MLS is fully established it will be the powerhouse league of North America -- attracting viewership globally, beyond the grasp of the NFL. Is the BPL worried about competing with the NFL?

3) a playoff system is a weak substitute for an actual tournament. To quote Jim Mora "Playoffs? PLAYOFFS?! You're talking to me about Playoffs?!!"

4) Hope to see the youth system improve -- will be hard to do when kids are getting siphoned off towards baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, tennis, and three other sports that are more lucrative than soccer in the U.S.

5) Having played sports in Europe, I am not sure how to express the difference between the "Club Atmosphere" of a European (Dutch) club, and that of an American team. Let's hope to see it develop properly.

6) Not trolling, there is too much turnover and rotation from season to season on many squads.

The last comment was directed specifically at the Whitecaps; the team i support. I would like to see some forwards play for the Caps. This is why i put a long line after my numbered suggestions and then started talking about the Whitecaps. I have yet to see a Whitecap Striker impress me.

Once again; "Relax and have a homebrew" you seem to be wound a little tight. It's not like this is field hockey, or anything...

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Don't know where to begin with this response except for to tell you to "Relax and have a homebrew" and then:

Oh I'm not steaming or anything. These are just suggestions that come up all the time that really won't work for MLS considering the way it is. We don't have to be like the rest of the world.. that's the great thing about it being an international sport, each country and region can do it their own way.

1) Have you been to any NASL matches? Their stadiums are more than adequate to handle current MLS crowds. Also, if relegation meant doom, that is called competitive pressure and will get owners to spend some $$$ to keep their teams from getting relegated. Besides, as a Galaxy fan you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

#1 - NASL stadiums are far from adequate. The average capacity of NASL stadiums is 6675. That's not even enough to hold enough fans for a Chivas USA match, which is really saying something. In 2012 the average MLS attendance was just about 18800.
#2 - This isn't EPL. There is a salary cap and clubs can't go spending all willy-nilly.
#3 - I have a lot to worry about as a Galaxy fan. Due to the salary cap there is a lot more parity. Galaxy could go into a tailspin this season or next. This isn't a league of one-sided spending.

2) You suspect that scheduling MLS during NFL will destroy the MLS, you don't know that for a FACT. In my opinion there is about as much overlap between MLS and NFL as there is between NHL and NBA...European leagues play in the cold, even the Russian league, Scottish league, swedish, norwegian, etc. They take a winter break during the worst of it.

But MLS already has a higher attendance than NHL and NBA so your point is a little moot. So why try to compete with NFL for attendance and TV ratings when we're doing just fine where we are? And no.... no, western European leagues don't get as cold or snowy as the eastern United States or the Rockies. And Sweden, Norway, and Russia all have a 3 month long winter break so they don't count.

3) a playoff system is a weak substitute for an actual tournament. To quote Jim Mora "Playoffs? PLAYOFFS?! You're talking to me about Playoffs?!!"

Playoffs >>>>>> Random side tournament. Not only that but MLS clubs already have to deal with international call-ups, US Open Cup (there, MLS does compete in a tournament that runs along side the season), and CONCACAF Champions league... and they have to juggle all those without exorbitant payrolls.

4) Hope to see the youth system improve -- will be hard to do when kids are getting siphoned off towards baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, tennis, and three other sports that are more lucrative than soccer in the U.S.

Soccer is the #1 sport for youth in America... pretty sure by a long shot as well. The problem is that the freak, natural-athletes are getting swiped up by the other sports. There are several cases in NFL alone of players who wanted to play soccer but their parents didn't think it was lucrative enough.

5) Having played sports in Europe, I am not sure how to express the difference between the "Club Atmosphere" of a European (Dutch) club, and that of an American team. Let's hope to see it develop properly.

We also don't exactly have a complete soccer pyramid. And I'm completely aware of the difference.

6) Not trolling, there is too much turnover and rotation from season to season on many squads.

MLS is a single-entity organization. Most times players have absolutely no choice but to get traded.

Once again; "Relax and have a homebrew" you seem to be wound a little tight. It's not like this is field hockey, or anything...

Well I'm staying out of town for work in a crappy little town so I may come off wound up but I'm really not. I'm just sick of Europeans or Eurosnobs making arguments against MLS that are not only wrong but the complete opposite of what is true. No offense whatsoever, but your statements make it seem like you haven't watched enough MLS to make a complete assessment.

 

[Norselord]

Well I'm staying out of town for work in a crappy little town so I may come off wound up but I'm really not. I'm just sick of Europeans or Eurosnobs making arguments against MLS that are not only wrong but the complete opposite of what is true. No offense whatsoever, but your statements make it seem like you haven't watched enough MLS to make a complete assessment.

I can't help where i was born, only where I live. My background is part of me. If I were in Europe I would be advocating an improvement to their "American Style Rugby" leagues...

I used to go to Tampa Mutiny games when i lived in FL -- that should tell you how long i have been following the MLS... I live in the ATL area now and I am grumpy about the proximity of a pro soccer team; not sure who is closer, United? Crew? Sporting KC? Dynamo?

The system may be improving but evidence of how immature the league is can be found in the reason why the Whitecaps managed to score against the 'Quakes this weekend (hint: 2 players off the pitch simultaneously changing their boots, they couldn't get back on the pitch because the ball needs to be dead first -- this would get a manager fired, stoned, drawn, quartered, burned in effigy, drowned, shot, and stabbed in any other league)

I like the international slot system the MLS uses.

I think the level of play has improved significantly in 17 years.

Announcers aren't all that great, but that will come with time. The media in general is messed up, camera angles are bad...the media is trying to do sideline interviews with local celebrities during games (really?!)

The MLS is fine if we take it for what it is and what it could be, but to think it is developing towards EPL is ridiculous, to even think it could rank near Serie A, Ligue 1, or the Bundesliga is highly optimistic.

It may be that the general American culture and mindset is not set up to enjoy a game of soccer -- it requires an uninterrupted 45 minutes of watching (unlike baseball or football), the buildup and interplay is valued almost as much as scoring, the players tend to be more like generalists than specialists, and the players do not take on Marvel super hero dimensions.

I love the beautiful game and would like to see it become huge here.