The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Oh dear.....Germany v France. I'm conflicted! I want them both to lose 6-0!!!!

 

[Mongrel]

Oh dear.....Germany v France. I'm conflicted! I want them both to lose 6-0!!!!

Hah, at least one of them is going home today.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Sure, but now Neymar is pulling in £120,000 a week at Barcelona. Brazil and Argentina sell all their talent to European clubs because they can't afford to keep them at home. If we want MLS to be a great league, it's going to cost some serious money.

Yes, but that's how MLS gets better without having a situation similar to MLB.

Neymar was sold to Barca for a ton of money. Lucas Moura was sold to PSG for a fortune. Oscar was sold to Chelsea for a fortune. These teams then take that money and develop more stars and they have an excellent league for that reason. MLS will need to do the same thing. Let's use Landon Donovan 20 years ago as an example. Before high school he is recruited to a camp after years of coming up and proving he's a star, he then is sold by LA to Manchester United for a fortune. Of course the league needs to prove it can churn out stars before that happens. but I think the future of MLS to ascend the ranks before it can become a top league is to first be a farm. Retain the more middling US players but let the promising ones go to Europe for big bucks.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Oh dear.....Germany v France. I'm conflicted! I want them both to lose 6-0!!!!

I came into the game thinking France would win, but I've changed my mind after their unconventional usage of the water break to drink a glass of wine and smoke several unfiltered cigarettes.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Pretty good game this. France have surrendered territory to the Germans, but are now offering some small resistance.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Sure, but now Neymar is pulling in £120,000 a week at Barcelona. Brazil and Argentina sell all their talent to European clubs because they can't afford to keep them at home. If we want MLS to be a great league, it's going to cost some serious money.

Yes but flinging serious money is not the end-all-be-all of making MLS bigger. Certain clubs throwing fliff around and not even counting while other clubs struggle to keep their doors open is part of what killed the old NASL. Well, that, and expanding too fast into markets that weren't ready for professional soccer.

The slow-and-steady growth with occasional booms has been working out great for MLS. We draw more crowds than NHL, NBA, and a good chunk of MLB. Soccer is the most popular sport to watch and play in the 18-25 demographic. Hell, the vast majority of MLS and USMNT fans are 18-25 which means they are the perfect age to start having kids and get them hooked as well.

Let's also not forget the massive new TV deal going into effect next year. ESPN and Fox Sports will no longer be doing Premiere League and will be focusing solely on MLS and USMNT. They are finally doing the right thing and playing matches on the same time same day every week. IIRC, UniMas will play every Friday night (and they will even have a reverse-SAP button. You can watch on a Spanish-speaking network with English-speaking broadcasters.) Then ESPN and Fox will have back-to-back matches (hour break in between, I believe) on Sunday afternoons. Plus there will be more access to digital programming on all networks even if you don't have a cable subscription, which I think is an incredibly smart move considering the large shift from cable/satellite to online programming.

NYC and Orlando are massive markets, and with the inclusion of Atlanta and possibly Miami we finally have a foothold in the south. And the expansion possibility skyrockets if you include the cities that have been campaigning for a club: Minneapolis, St. Louis, Las Vegas, Sacramento, San Antonio, and a few others that have expressed interest.

If you told fans 10 years ago that MLS would be where it is now, they would have laughed in your face. I don't see any reason why the growth can't continue as long as the league keeps making smart decisions that pay off over time.

It'd be great if the MLS developed into a big-time league, but right now it's not that close to the Mexican league, let alone the top Euros. I suppose a massive salary increase would help raise the talent level, but it won't get that kind of money without the league being taken seriously. Unless you know a few sheikhs looking to invest. Given that the US population is roughly equal to the total of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the UK, maybe one day we'll be able to be support a top-tier league of our own (I don't consider France to be top-tier).

Do you support the Dynamo?

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

I came into the game thinking France would win, but I've changed my mind after their unconventional usage of the water break to drink a glass of wine and smoke several unfiltered cigarettes.

Those water breaks have me a little worried. While I see the sense behind the idea in that climate, it poses a potential threat of a future game of 4 quarters and beer commercials coming out the arse.

 

[Mongrel]

Reno, have you had a chance to make it to a Timbers match yet? The crowds there are awesome. Look, I agree with a lot what you're saying about developing the league here. It's been fun to watch the growth since the '94 World Cup. I just want the players on our national team to get more experience playing at higher levels. Having grown up in South America, I'd love to see the clubs be able to sign and develop children. Probably won't ever happen here, but it works.

 

[kingwood-kid]

NYC and Orlando are massive markets, and with the inclusion of Atlanta and possibly Miami we finally have a foothold in the south. And the expansion possibility skyrockets if you include the cities that have been campaigning for a club: Minneapolis, St. Louis, Las Vegas, Sacramento, San Antonio, and a few others that have expressed interest.

Do you support the Dynamo?

I don't think Miami is going to work. Putting pro sports in Florida always sounds great, but Florida sports fans are interested in three things: the northern team from the city they grew up in, college football, and why the NFL won't give Tebow a chance. I do think it could do well in Minneapolis, St Louis, Detroit, and a few mid-sized cities that don't have multiple pro teams now.

Atlanta and Houston are pretty similar. When you're winning, we've loved you forever. When you're not, we forget you exist. And either way, we care about pro football more than anything else. I'd like the MLS to grow, so maybe I should support the Dynamo, but I really don't. I have become a pretty committed EPL viewer, if that counts for anything.

 

[DevoTids]

The U.S. blows @ fútbol because we have sports like the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc....and those sports have a much longer, more rich "American" history.

When you take into account the staggering salaries of professional athletes in just those three sports, it's quite easy to see why we suck @ soccer. In turn, our biggest, fastest, most talented athletes do not play soccer, they play football...or basketball. Because that is where the money, stardom, and opportunities lie. And as a capitalist country, that's what we desire....$$$$$.

It means far more to war torn, struggling countries with dictatorships and mass genocides to win the World Cup. If the U.S. won, we would just have a horrible hangover the next day. Other countries would celebrate until the next World Cup.


Dufrenes, party of 2?

 

[DevoTids]

The only people that believe soccer is going to be the next big thing are unfortunately, delusional. It isn't a coincidence that U.S. soccer-guy weighs in @ roughly a buck 65, and is 5'11... Had they been bigger, faster, or stronger they would have without a doubt have played football.


Dufrenes, party of 2?

 

[kingwood-kid]

The problem isn't that our biggest and strongest athletes play other sports, as those aren't necessary qualities in soccer. Cristiano Ronaldo is 6'1" and is taller than any other top offensive player I could think of. The problem is that all of America's smaller, nimbler athletes think they can play in the NBA or NFL at 5'9". Repurpose our undersized point guards and option quarterbacks into fullbacks and attacking midfielders, and we'd still be playing.

 

[DevoTids]

As long as MLS' highest paid player(Clint Dempsey)makes $6.6 million and Clayton Kershaw(LA Dodgers) banks @ 7 years, $215 million, $30.7 million annually, MLS will always fall short athletically. The little guys trying to play big guy sports will always happen whenever people believe they can fly if they only want it hard enough.


Dufrenes, party of 2?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Reno, have you had a chance to make it to a Timbers match yet? The crowds there are awesome. Look, I agree with a lot what you're saying about developing the league here. It's been fun to watch the growth since the '94 World Cup. I just want the players on our national team to get more experience playing at higher levels. Having grown up in South America, I'd love to see the clubs be able to sign and develop children. Probably won't ever happen here, but it works.

That's where Klinsmann is going to push and probably a big reason there's so many negative things said about him. I wouldn't be shocked if NCAA isn't behind it as he doesn't want people to just play for a scholarship. He wants kids to develop under a uniform system as they do in other countries. We have advantages and complications that other countries don't, how Klinsmann and his crew handle the youth will be the biggest part of his dynasty. our results in this world cup and the next is icing on the cake. If they change our youth system, keep kids from going thte scholarship route and so on so forth.

The youth system also presents a unique advantage in recruiting from the inner city. Kids if they're given a way to make money for their family, to be put through school, and play for a professional sports team we could steal some very talented athletes who may not have made the NBA or NFL and instead have them play soccer and have the skills needed.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

As long as MLS' highest paid player(Clint Dempsey)makes $6.6 million and Clayton Kershaw(LA Dodgers) banks @ 7 years, $215 million, $30.7 million annually, MLS will always fall short athletically. The little guys trying to play big guy sports will always happen whenever people believe they can fly if they only want it hard enough.

MLS has only been around about 20 years. MLB is far more storied. MLS has been slowly growing and should keep going that way.

Do you not think the performance of Besler, Gonzilla, Yedlin, Dempsey, etc. won't interest some of the more casual fans to consider following MLS? If you don't well you're wrong. The key for MLS though is getting people to go to the stadiums. Every fan I know who goes to a soccer game falls for it. It's far and away the best sporting event I've been to aside from maybe college sports. And you don't have to recruit the best athletes in America. You realize the number of guys we have that go and play basketball internationally or in lower basketball leagues who makes way less money than MLS players do? Or the guys who spend their careers toiling in the minors in baseball. or give themselves injuries playing amatuer football?

Soccer if handled right could latch on quite easily and MLS would be the biggest beneficiary immediately and Europe and the World would secondarily benefit because America being a top flight soccer nation means a ton of added money for FIFA.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Reno, have you had a chance to make it to a Timbers match yet? The crowds there are awesome. Look, I agree with a lot what you're saying about developing the league here. It's been fun to watch the growth since the '94 World Cup. I just want the players on our national team to get more experience playing at higher levels. Having grown up in South America, I'd love to see the clubs be able to sign and develop children. Probably won't ever happen here, but it works.

It is already happening here. Most teams have academies, most of which go to U-14 or lower. Philadelphia Union even have a highschool academy. I want our big talent to stay here and make this league a place where kids WANT to train and WANT to stay. If we keep saying "oh just ship them to Europe" we're never going to improve as a nation. We need a big league with a big presence that shows you can make a living or make it big in domestic soccer, where otherwise they would have gone to one of the big 4. There are so many interviews with athletes in the top of their sport saying their first love was soccer and they wish it was lucrative enough back then.

And no, never been to a live PTFC match. But it's certainly on my checklist. I think we're going to plan to hit each Best Coast stadium in the 2015 season when LA visits. Bummed that SJ won't use Stanford next year since their new soccer-specific stadium will be ready for 2015 but I love seeing new digs. I always follow stadium construction threads on BigSoccer. I'm a huge stadium and kit geek.

I don't think Miami is going to work. Putting pro sports in Florida always sounds great, but Florida sports fans are interested in three things: the northern team from the city they grew up in, college football, and why the NFL won't give Tebow a chance. I do think it could do well in Minneapolis, St Louis, Detroit, and a few mid-sized cities that don't have multiple pro teams now.

Atlanta and Houston are pretty similar. When you're winning, we've loved you forever. When you're not, we forget you exist. And either way, we care about pro football more than anything else. I'd like the MLS to grow, so maybe I should support the Dynamo, but I really don't. I have become a pretty committed EPL viewer, if that counts for anything.

Orlando City SC is currently a third-tier team and can still put 20k+ butts in seat. I think their market is just fine Not only that but they picked up Kaka. Perfect addition for a heavily-Brazilian demographic.

And you should give Houston a try. Gorgeous stadium, quality players (two players in WC), solid fanbase, downtown location. It's a 9 hour drive (at least) to get to my club. I'm insanely jealous of people that live in MLS cities and can hop on public transportation and go to a match. And it's frustrating when there are soccer fans in that situation that ignore it ಠ_ಠ

But of all the expansion cities, I'd say those that are the most promising and have made the biggest push are (in descending order) Minneapolis, Sacramento, and Las Vegas. Minneapolis has had D2 or D3 for some time and consistently draw good crowds. Sacramento have a D3 team that plays entertaining soccer, has maybe the best name/logo/colors combo in North American soccer, and also consistently drew around 20k fans before moving to their more-suited-for-soccer home. Vegas has a very prominent ownership group wanting to bring in professional soccer. They have a proposed downtown lot that already has public transportation, stadium renderings, etc. I think it could work there if marketed right... after all, it's a very very transient city.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Dufrenes, party of 2?

Bush, search party of three. You can eat when you find the Dufrenes

 

[Reno_eNVy]

MLS has only been around about 20 years.

This. This is no point in arguing that [insert "traditional" American sport] does better than MLS. Every other league has decades more history and family-lineage support. In one more generation it might not be unlikely to hear "We're a NYRB/PTFC/OCSC/etc. family" much like the NFL is today.

Every World Cup we set records for viewership on ESPN and every time there's an overflow of interest that spills in to MLS. This will become a soccer nation.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Even if you ignore the growing interest from younger Americans in soccer, the changing demographics of the country is evidence that America will become a soccer nation. As people from soccer nations come to US and raise the bar and interest there will beimprovement and with improvement comes more people who want in.

As I highlighted above a well targeted inner city campaign from places like Philly, NYC, Chicago, etc. to try to poach some kids who want to get out by the way of sports and give them an alternative instead of trying to be one of the few under 6 foot tall players in the NFL or NBA.

 

[bob1852]

This will become a soccer nation.

The continual influx of Latin migrants won't hurt either, but MLS has to avoid any work stoppages (strike/holdouts).

 

[DevoTids]

MLS is only stories to people who pay attention. If you see TV ratings, which is where most big boy sports organizations get their primary revenues from, MLS doesn't even move the needle. The common American doesn't watch or care for soccer. That's okay, though! People get to emotional about games for which they aren't even a part of. *Remember, FAN is short for FANATIC. Just breathe.

The only things that could change that is, people veering their children away from contact sports for fear of life threatening injuries, and it has affected Pop Warner sign-ups a bit. But, MLS is in no way about to overtake any of the top three sports in the USA.

The only people who say MLS is "far more storied" than MLB, NFL, or NBA are 5'9 dudes named Todd or Nick that hope one day all those dumb football players will be envious of little guys kicking a ball around. Grab 50 random people 18-35 off the street and they'll be able to name more MLB stadiums than they could teams or even players in MLS.


Dufrenes, party of 2?

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

MLS ratings aren't moving the needle, but they just signed a new big deal with ESPN. Man that ESPN always makes bad business decisions.

And I don't think anyone has said that MLS is more storied than any of the big 4 sports. So maybe you need to take a breather and not argue things that no one is talking about.

 

[bob1852]

MLS ratings aren't moving the needle, but they just signed a new big deal with ESPN. Man that ESPN always makes bad business decisions.

Uh, World Series of Poker.

 

[Mongrel]

Was wondering what it would take for a card to get produced in this game. WTF Silva? Germany has to love that.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

MLS is only stories to people who pay attention. If you see TV ratings, which is where most big boy sports organizations get their primary revenues from, MLS doesn't even move the needle. The common American doesn't watch or care for soccer. That's okay, though! People get to emotional about games for which they aren't even a part of. *Remember, FAN is short for FANATIC. Just breathe.

The only things that could change that is, people veering their children away from contact sports for fear of life threatening injuries, and it has affected Pop Warner sign-ups a bit. But, MLS is in no way about to overtake any of the top three sports in the USA.

The only people who say MLS is "far more storied" than MLB, NFL, or NBA are 5'9 dudes named Todd or Nick that hope one day all those dumb football players will be envious of little guys kicking a ball around. Grab 50 random people 18-35 off the street and they'll be able to name more MLB stadiums than they could teams or even players in MLS.

More storied? Nobody is saying that. We're using it's less storied history as a point that it's made it this big in 20 short years.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

This has been one of the worst reffed matches of the tournament. Ref has let the players take control of this match in a big way.

 

[DevoTids]

I apologize if I've offended anyone. Personally, I grew up playing soccer, and in part of high school, but was a collegiate American Football player. I dig fútbol, but I wish that things were structured differently to allow lower income, and inner city children be introduce to more soccer.

For that, I always pull for the more politically struggling countries in the World Cup...it just seems more meaningful. My bad for stepping on toes!


Dufrenes, party of 2?

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

all this crying in soccer, confirms it for me. it's a girls sport

 

[Punity]

all this crying in soccer, confirms it for me. it's a girls sport

Put pads and a Dallas cowboys helmet on them and you've basically got T.O. out there wanting a flag.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Was wondering what it would take for a card to get produced in this game. WTF Silva? Germany has to love that.

One of the dumbest things done this World Cup.


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